Talk:Third Coast
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I made a major edit on the wikipedia entry for "third coast". I have heard of Chicago referred to as the third coast, however I have to disagree. I first want to address incorrect statements.
The first, was that Chicago has a metropolitan population exceeding 12 million. This is certainly incorrect. That is the population of the state of Illinois, most of which is very rural with small cities (college towns, the state capital, etc.) that dot the agricultural landscape. The population of the six main counties is between 8 and 9 million. If you add NW Indiana, and other nearby places like Kenosha, WI then is exceeds 9 million.
Secondly, Chicago is an Alpha city, but places like Minneapolis, Dallas, and Houston are Gamma world cities. So where do you draw the line?
Chicago is a heavily Democrat territory, that doesn't neccesarily mean that it leans far left politically. Chicago does have a strong "lakefront liberal" population that is becoming even more dominant, but the majority of the democratic voting still comes from blue-collared unionized workers and minorities which is the case of most other midwestern cities. Other cities as well have a very cosmopolitan, socially liberal culture in its inner core as well. Minneapolis certainly does, and even Houston, down in conservative Texas has the third largest gay population in the country. People have told me that the culture of most of Chicago culture is relatively conservative when compared to California or the east coast.
Fourth, I'm not sure where the author of the previous entry got the information that Chicago has the second highest concentration of wealth in the country. I do know that Chicago stands among other cities mostly because of its central business district, the loop and environs, the skyline. If you are simply looking at say the near north side and taking a look at rich people living in a high-rise, then yes it possible to say that Chicago may have the second-highest concentration of wealth in the country, but you really have to look at the entire area. And I highly doubt that Chicago exceed the wealth in California, Florida, etc.
Chicago is a world leader in many areas, business, industry, etc. But so are many other cities in "flyover country." Detroit, although plagued by some of the worst urban blight and white flight (although things are started to look better there in the downtown area)is absolutely a leader in industry and business, has a metro population exceeding 5 million, its just that most people are in the suburbs and nearby small cities. The same could be said for other places I mentioned in this discussion.
Most people who are from the coasts think Chicago is relatively bland when it comes to culture, although that's not neccesarily a bad thing. Some say it is just a larger version of a smaller midwestern city. My own experiences show the same thing. Having grown up between Chicago and Milwaukee I have seen that personally.
These are just thoughts, I encourage anyone to post any comments. Let me know if anyone agrees or disagrees!
- Hmmm... so cities aren't "really" liberal if their left-leanings come from people of color and union workers as opposed to rich-whites who are (from what you're implying) a more "legit" type of resident? Granted, I've always felt that Chicago's self-perception as an ultra-liberal oasis is extremely exaggerated, if not outright wrong (Chicago is very socially elitist and has a shrinking Black population because of it). But your reasons for saying so are extremely racist and classist.
- However, I don't think that's enough to say it couldn't count as a "third coast." New York has a republican mayor and California has a republican governor, so it's pretty obvious that the "first" and "second" coasts have their conservative segments as well. As far as Chicago culture being bland compared to the East and West coasts, you're probably right about that too. But it's not as if people on the east or west coast don't have their criticism about the other coasts' culture as well. East Coast people tend to think West Coast culture is too fluffy and superficial and West Coast people think the East Coast is too uptight and high-strung. So I don't think how Chicago/Great Lakes culture is viewed by people on the coasts should really have any bearing on whether or not it's a "coast."
- Besides, I don't think the purpose is to compare the Great Lakes to the Eastern or Western seaboards. I think its purpose is more to differentiate the major urban centers of the Great Lakes from the Midwest at large (which is seen as mostly small-town and conservative). And I don't think you can disagree that when compared to the rest of their states that places like Chicago, Detroit and Milwaukee do seem like "ultra-urban" and "ultra-liberal" oasises. --Illwauk 20:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Bobg54 00:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
- Not to be a Wikidkid, but if there are reliable sources about the subject, it would be really good to find them and use them to buttress the article. Anyway, some empirical data:
| Google search | ghits | groups |
|---|---|---|
| texas OR houston | 125k | 357 |
| texas | 112k | 311 |
| austin | 64k | 400 |
| houston | 62k | 130 |
| chicago OR "great lakes" | 102k | 190 |
| chicago | 92k | 173 |
| atlanta | 80k | 30 |
| detroit | 27k | 25 |
| Minneapolis OR "St. Paul" | 26k | 15 |
| regions rather than cities | ||
| texas OR louisiana OR alabama OR georgia | 143k | 339 |
| louisiana OR alabama OR georgia -texas | 30k | 28 |
| great lakes + nearby states | 110k | 194 |
| great lakes + nearby states + chicago | 142k | 305 |
| Control group | ||
| "new york" | 86k | 110 |
| california | 63k | 65 |
- So, usually it refers to 1) the Texas coast, 2) Chicago, and 3) Atlanta, but more generally to 1) the Great Lakes US coast, and 2) the Gulf of Mexico US coast. (on the other hand, the control group shows how inaccurate this is) --Interiot 01:25, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Great Lakes
I have to admit I find this whole article a little convoluded and confusing. Granted, I have an obvious geographical bias, but from my experience the term "third coast" is widely used to refer to the Great Lakes shoreline, which is comparable in length to the east and west coasts of the US. The use of the term to describe Chicago or Milwaukee politics is almost certainly secondary to this geographic useage (the Athens reference hardly explains the coast terminology at all). Triphook 05:54, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
- Given the common association of coastlines and liberal politics, I don't see how it doesn't explain the coast terminology. Whether or not the coast=liberal assumption is justified is a whole other debate.--68.74.205.194 03:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Scrap it.
Absolutely nothing about this article makes sense. "Socialist hotbed" = "athens" = "coast"? Whoever wrote this obviously thinks that these associations are universal, but they seem completely random and arbitrary to me. If the author(s) didn't simply make them up, they need to be cited and, more importantly, explained. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.93.70.139 (talk) 04:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
