Talk:Things Fall Apart

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[edit] old talk

The name of the ethnic group is spelled "Ibo" in the text, not "Igbo." | Keithlaw 18:50, 15 May 2005 (UTC) ńó

I do believe that it can be spelt either way, but the book specifically uses "Ibo". I see the pay currently has sort of both. Ethan 22:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Okay...this was stated below...but, as for the use of Igbo, it is true that Achebe used Ibo, but the modern/current way to spell it is Igbo. See Igbo (people). In the book itself, "Ibo" is used, but in the preface to the most recent version (see Google Books) uses "Igbo." --The Human Spellchecker 10:36, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

exact date of publication could a paper be written about the similarities between this book and Night

[edit] Page count

number of pages in this book —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.100.131 (talk • contribs) 23:06, 22 February 2006

  • The amazon.com entry says 224 pages. | Klaw ¡digame! 23:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

The entire last paragraph 1) seems lifted from somewhere, and 2) is extremely POV. Particularly the bit criticising the Ibo culture. This is not the place for something like that, it's not encyclopedic. Kyou 02:05, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree entirely! I'm only a high school student, so I haven't studied the work to write a literary analysis, but that section doesn't belong. Besides, it seems to miss the entire point of the novel. Things Fall Apart deserves better. --Aekarn 04:53, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Question

The whole article (at least the part beginning with "Point of View" until the end) seems very awkwardly worded to me, in phrases such as "The village is faced with the hard decision to either accept the change or if they accept it, it would show their own personal weakness." Was it written by a native English speaker? It seems like this part of the article (and possibly the Part 1 and 2, I didn't read them) needs to be rewritten or revised to be less awkwardly phrased. Does anyone else agree?

Also passages like "The perspective of this novel was appropriate because of the language barrier. Achebe has peppered pieces of the Igbo language proving that it is too complex for a direct English translation. By having a third person narrator, it allows the reader to understand what is going on. This novel has limited dialogue, because the language is so different from English. So in order to obtain the whole plot the character must know what the characters are thinking and why they are thinking that," are unsubstantiated. Certainly other explanations are very possible as to the reason for the point of view, and since the book was originally written in English, the idea that dialogue is limited as a result of the complexity of translating the Ibo language seems shaky at best. And the idea that the use of Ibo phrases proves the complexity of the language seems silly as well. Isn't it possible that Achebe simply used them to create atmosphere? The whole second half of the article seems to contain some shaky assertions like this one. Thoughts?--Derco 07:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

While I agree that the second part of this article looks as if it was lifted wholesale from somewhere, I disagree with your assertion, Derco, about the complexity or otherwise of Ibo (and yes, the word can be spelled either Ibo or Igbo, with Ibo being mainly used for members of that ethnic group to the west of the River Niger, and Igbo being used for the peoples to the east of the Niger). There are many proverbs, sayings, etc. in Ibo which are extremely difficult to render properly in English. Yes, many times Achebe uses these Ibo phrases atmospherically, but most of the time he leaves them in because they just cannot be properly translated. The major reason why the college educated Achebe wrote Things Fall Apart in English rather than in Ibo was to showcase to a Western audience the richness and depth of language that the Ibo possess, as well as to highlight aspects of life in pre-colonial Nigeria. Being that the novel remains a worldwide classic, I believe he achieved this aim handily. -- Jalabi99 13:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree that he did a great job and it's a great book. That's why this page is rather troubling to me. I don't see any verification for the assertions in the second half of the article. Perhaps Achebe did keep phrases in the original Ibo because it was too complex (not being able to speak Ibo I can't say personally if this is true or not), but no source is given for this assertion. Another example of this is the assertion "He [Okonkwo]dies courageously," which certainly seems to be up to the opinion of the reader. Also: "In part II, however, when the Europeans arrive, their actions are much more cruel and cannablistic than the tribal people's." I do not recall the Europeans being practioners of cannabalism, and although I have not read the book in a year or so, I highly doubt that they were depicted in this manner. Basically the second half o the article contains a lot of unverified assertions and statements of highly questionable accuracy. My other complaint was simply the awkward wording of much of the article (e.g. "Also both the settlers and the villagers have guns. These objects prove to us that it takes place in the 1800's." To me, the use of the word "we" seems very srange in an encyclopedia entry.) Also I don't see why the article would spell it Igbo if Achebe himself spelled it Ibo.--Derco 01:42, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The paragraph that begins under the "Point of View" heading is really problematic also because it seems to imply that the novel was translated from Ibo, which it isn't. It also seems like it could easily be condensed into a sentence as part of a larger discussion of style that would probably be more appropriate for the article. --Nicole Javaly 14:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
As for the use of Igbo, it is true that Achebe used Ibo, but the modern/current way to spell it is Igbo. See Igbo (people). In the book itself, "Ibo" is used, but in the preface to the most recent version (see Google Books) uses "Igbo." I just re-read this for my college English class, so I may do some revising. In fact, I will do at least some (i.e. add an infobox). --The Human Spellchecker 09:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

This article badly needs a rewrite. It reads like a high school paper, not like an encyclopedia entry. There's too much plot summary and not enough about its literary significance (which is what the article should focus much more on - showing its significance and notability), and it badly needs references. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I made a start with literary significance and history. -- Stbalbach 18:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ezinma

In the summary it says "One night Chielo, a woman consumed by the Goddess Agbala, comes to Okonkwo’s compound screaming that Ezinma was to be sacrificed and she must take her. Without question Ezinma is given to Chielo..." but I don't believe she was to be sacrificed. I think that no reason was given by Chielo. I believe that Ekwefi and Okonkwo followed her because they weren't sure what was going to happen, and Achebe emphasizes this uncertainty in the darkness of walking to the next village at night in the jungle. Somebody who read this more recently than I have should update.

The commentor is right. Ezinma was not taken away by Chielo in the middle of the night to be killed because Chielo herself returns Ezinma to her home the next morning without harming her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sushantap (talk • contribs) 08:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ibo/Igbo

In the novel, the society is referred to as both Ibo and Igbo. The two phrases can be used interchangeably, however, are both pronounced the same, like EYE-bo.

Vlcmkd2 22:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the correct pronunciation is EE-bo, not EYE-bo (see [1]). And Igbo is the "current" term, Ibo has fallen out of use in preference for the former.
--The Human Spellchecker 09:41, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
It's nice that this is sort of indicated now in the article's introduction, but it still initially says Ibo and then in the same paragraph later says Igbo. This is kind of inconsistent? 157.182.224.154 14:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Three Parts

I just read this book for my English class, and it is seperated into three parts. The third part starts with Okonkwo returning to his tribe at chapter twenty (pg. 157). Published by Fawcett Crest, NY. October 1969 Mannerisky

Correct, it is 3 parts. -- Stbalbach 18:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is three parts, but this page does not talk about the contents of them. This page does not even talk about any part of the book. I think that the page should include just a little bit of info. -- T3H_PWN3R [9:32 PM, 4-29-07]

[edit] Infobox and citations

I've edited the infobox slightly to reflect the first edition a bit more, as per standard use of the template - 1958 novels pre-date the use of ISBNs. I have been unable to find a copy of the first edition to verify the other fields - specifically, Publisher, Hardcover/Softcover, and Page count.

Also, more varied sources are needed for citing parts of the article. There's not really much point using footnotes if every footnote points to the same source! -- H. Carver 08:00, 22 March 2007 (UTC)



I agree. As my teachers always say - if you're only using one source, then you're probably just paraphrasing exactly what that person said... and that's not a very balanced way to write anything! Justi521 05:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A correction on the relationship of Things Fall Apart with Arrow of God

I do not have the nerve to edit the main article for lack of appropriate credentials.

Arrow of God is not a sequel to Things Fall Apart. It is an almost parallel novel that dealt with difficulties the African societies underwent when the whitemen came and took over their sovereignty and introduced a new religion to replace the ones they inherited from the ancestors. It sets in Umuaru, separate and distinct from Okonkwo's Umuafia. There was part of the novel that remotely suggests that its main character the colourful chief priest of ulu, had any kinship with Okonkwo or any of the characters in Things Fall Apart.

Would someon make this correction, please. J. Imandi

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.1.178.69 (talk) 13:19, August 24, 2007 (UTC)