Talk:Thierry Henry

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Featured article star Thierry Henry is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 23, 2008.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Thierry Henry article.
Article policies
Archives: 1
This article, or a portion of it, was copyedited by the League of Copyeditors in September 2007. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
  • Copyeditor(s): Cricketgirl 15:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Selected content star Thierry Henry is part of the random selection of content on Portal:Association football. An excerpt from this article regularly appears on the Portal's main page.
To-do: edit · history · watch · refresh
Archive
Archives
Archive 1


Contents

[edit] Userbox

Ive created a user box if anyone wants to use it to say they think Thierry Henry is the best footballer in the world :) {{User:Asics/Henry}} .

TH14 This user thinks Thierry Henry is the best footballer in the world

AsicsTalk 18:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Barcelona section Pounds & Euros transposed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.14.78 (talk) 02:34, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA

this article is certainly capable of attaining GA class if references are included, formatted and the trivia section incorporated into the body. Chensiyuan 02:49, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

the whole body on his Arsenal career is in very bad shape. shall do something about it. Chensiyuan 10:08, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
did quite a bit of tidying up. shall stop for now. will add parts about his teammates (how they contributed to Arsenal's style of play) later, as well as expand on his Arsenal career -- a more season-by-season-esque breakdown perhaps. Chensiyuan 11:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
calling for more free TH images!! Chensiyuan 13:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
more things to do: (1) develop a proper section on his early life, e.g. his parents/siblings, what he did when he was young; (2) develop a proper section on his life outside football, i.e. current family and maybe his commercial endorsements/affiliations; (3) integrate the trivia section into the article, where possible; (4) maybe even a player profile section e.g. his speed, ability to provide assists, take free kicks... Chensiyuan 14:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
the part on Luis Aragonés is somewhat overtreated in the article, especially when most of the info did not concern Henry directly. but no harm maintaining it i suppose. i also cannot find a source on the claim that Henry won 4 Barclays player of the year award. Chensiyuan 11:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Hey Chensiyuan. Excellent job there with all those changes you did. It made it quite easy for me just to swap around some of the sections, integrate some text here and there, and add a small section at the start of the article. So anyways. I've renamed a bunch of headers, so the article looks quite different now - but the content is quite similar. Just more streamlined, really. What else do you think could be improved? -GilbertoSilvaFan 17:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC) P.S. I second your call for more images :-)
great job, GilbertoSilvaFan. currently i think the parts which also require help are those on his play/leadership/complementary team-mates etc., maybe some mention of him being a leader of a mostly young squad, more on his personal/off the pitch life...
Follow-up: I think the main thing missing from the article now is a 'Player profile' or 'Style of play' section. Praise for Henry's style of play should be extremely easy to source, since so many journalists have done this. Documenting criticism of Tel will be a tricky business though, since a) not many people do it, and b) if the section doesn't show criticism for Henry, it will seem NPOV.
there used to be a section in this article "dedicated" to Henry's failure to score in finals or something like that. however, the source was some blog. that said, if we are pursuing this line, another more reliable source should be findable.
The other thing which needs to be done is another copy edit on the entire Biography section. I'm not sure how well the paragraphs transition into each other. I'll set up a to-do box for this article so that other people (i.e. you, Chensiyuan) can add to it, and we can all pending tasks organised. Fo' real. -GilbertoSilvaFan 19:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
will do, thanks once again. Chensiyuan 06:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I've made a bunch of changes today. I won't try to list them all here, since there have been quite a few. One thing I've spent quite a bit of time trying to do though is find a source which cites Aragones' comments about Henry. I figued that if I searched for him the ball, and then show that black little, I'd find a reliable source. Alas, the only results returned are small sites and blogs quoting this article. I'm pretty sure I remember that quote being in the papers at the time of the incident, but if we can't find a proper source, the quote will have to be removed and the paragraph reworded.

i tried searching under black s*** and got a couple. this and this, would that suffice?
for the time being i've got ahead to reference the remark, but i've trimmed down the full remark to merely Aragones referring to TH as "black shit". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chensiyuan (talk • contribs) 09:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC).
Good job! That seems fine -GilbertoSilvaFan 12:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

So yeah. Other than that, the only thing left to do in the todo box is adding info about Tel being senior figure to lots of young players. Once I do that tomorrow, I'll ask a bunch of people to look at the article to see what's missing from it, or how it can be improved. Maybe a PR or GA nomination. -GilbertoSilvaFan 01:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

another thing about his play is his willingness to run back and defend methinks.

I'll try to find a source for this. No doubt Andy Gray has written about it in some obscure sky sports article. -GilbertoSilvaFan 12:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

yup that would be a good idea. i shall do a few re-reads and tweaks in the process. thanks for your help as always, Chensiyuan 03:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Good work with all those tweaks, if I had to sit down and fix all those mistakes I'd go mental. -GilbertoSilvaFan 12:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}There are a couple edits needed regarding the chronology of the Confederations Cup he participated in (took place after the 2002-03 season, not the 2003-04 season when Arsenal were unbeaten in the league) as well the number of goals he scored in the tournament (4, not 12). One minor edit (re: the 2000 Euro Championship) is that Zinedine Zidane was not captain of the squad during the tournament. Active Retro 12:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your sharp observations. Relevant corrections have been made. Chensiyuan 12:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}} This page is semiprotected; any username more than a few days old can edit it. There is no need for administrator assistance. CMummert · talk 13:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perspective/POV

i feel somewhere in the lead it should be mentioned TH is regarded by many as one of the best players in the world, at least for his generation.

i'm fully aware of course the implications of including such statements (seen the NPOV lawyering explode countless times).

but my point is this. first, that statement will be supportable by many reliable sources. second, it provides a real perspective on TH. critics of POV often say let the article speak for itself, viz. either examining the accolades and championships the player has won.

but a player's greatness is not necessarily measured by the number of things he won. in TH's case, okay so we know he won the WC, the EURO, the EPL etc. but so? what does all this mean to the ordinary reader who serves as the benchmark? there are quite a few people who have done the same but would not be regarded as one of the best in the world. in other words, the TH article would patently appear as merely another soccer player article.

so naysayers might say, what's wrong with that. it's wrong not because i think he's good, but him being perceived widely as great is surely characteristic of him. we speak of the Peles, Maradonas and Zidanes. non-football fans would know of these people. TH is right up there too, not because i say so, but because the perception exists, and this is verifiable. i'm not asserting as a fact he is one of the best, i'm asserting it is a fact he is perceived as one. ergo, it will also mean on many levels there is some truth to that perception, inasmuch as that is irrelevant and completely independent of my suggestion that a statement that TH is regarded as one of the best can be considered to be incorporated. Chensiyuan 08:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree. I'll get started with finding a few sources to back up a "one of the best players in the world" sentence in the lead. -GilbertoSilvaFan 09:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, how's that? I think maybe it needs a slight rewording. Anyway, good suggestion. The fact that Tel went from relative obscurity to being one of the best in the world is a massive part of his career. To not mention it would be more of a crime of uncomprehensiveness than NPOV. -GilbertoSilvaFan 09:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
good job! well i suppose it's between what we have now versus something like "regarded by many as one of the best in the world". we'd keep this now, and see people react to it. Chensiyuan 20:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA status

The article is well-written and well-organized. I'm passing it. Great job! PeaceNT 17:44, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Squadboxes

There are too many there, plain and simple. I'd argue the following deserve to be there (at an absolute maximum:)

  • Current club squad. A given.
  • Last World Cup squad/Euro squad (which ever falls most recent). Closest we get to 'current national side'. [That they were in]
  • World Cup winning sides. Meritworthy at least.
  • Being VERY generous, Euro-cup winning sides. Would rather this be done on separate page, but can see the argument.

A 2002 WC quarterfinal winning squad doesn't need to be amongst the boxes shown. Nor would a World Cup runners-up in 2006, if he plays in 2010 in South Africa. (It's noteworthy in the text of the article, but doesn't require a squadbox, surely?)

2002 probably not a strong case to keep. WC 2006 however would be the most recent for national side. Chensiyuan 03:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] barcelona transfer talks, once again

The french football newspaper reports that Henry is on his way to Barca. Only thing missing is Arsenal's approval. See the article here: Barça - Henry : presque fait. Should it be added? Hjorten 16:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

A swedish newspaper did too. Henry överens med Barcelona CHANDLER   17:24, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I originally found it on a Danish football website bold.dk Henry enig med Barcelona It seems both articles refer to the french article; maybe we should wait until another source confirms. Hjorten 18:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Frankly the news would never stop and unless the speculation is widely held then it would not be particularly useful. Chensiyuan 04:07, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Now Henry's agent wants to sue the newspaper; seems this was purely speculation! Henry-agent vil sagsøge fodboldmagasin Hjorten 08:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The Beeb are normally quite a reliable source. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/6231950.stm BeL1EveR 18:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barcelona Player

Britzingen 18:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

BeL1EveR 18:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted a change to say he's a Barcelona player. It would be fine to say he's in talks to sign with Barcelona, but the BBC website (for example) says the deal is not likely to be complete till next week, assuming it does go through. As of now he's an Arsenal player. Mike Christie (talk) 18:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, not confimation yet, sorry. Britzingen 18:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
It's been confirmed, he's going to be number 14 at the Nou Camp next season. Read it in the Guardian. Someone ought to cite the shirt number so people stop saying it's 'TBA' and stuff. LiamUK 11:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
The deal has not gone through yet. Mattythewhite 11:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

He has a medical on Monday. WATP (talk) • (contribs) 17:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

BBC are now reporting he's passed his medical [1] now we can all move on and the nominations for WP:LAME can begin. Foxhill 15:42, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] spanish club Arsenal?

"plays as a striker for the France national team and Spanish club Arsenal." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.83.244.226 (talk • contribs)

Haven't you heard?  slυмgυм [ ←→ ] 13:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
He means Arsenal aren't a Spanish squad. Someone changed the team name, but not the location. - Slow Graffiti 07:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I know. I was joking.  slυмgυм [ ←→ ] 11:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] #14

"He was given the squad number 14 which was formerly worn at the club by Johann Cruyff and which Henry also wore at Arsenal."

Cruijff never actually wore 14 for Barca. It was back in the 1-11 days and Cruijff was #9. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.250.123 (talk • contribs)

I gather it stems from bad reporting.[2][3]Cruyff favoured the number 14 shirt and wore it for Ajax and other clubs, but wore number 9 when starting a game for Barcelona and 14 when a substitute.[4] Foxhill 13:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

please decide between templates and non-templates if adding a citation -- the format should be consistent throughout, given this is a GA. as this article uses mainly non-templates, the use of templates will necessitate converting all the references to template form. thanks! Chensiyuan 23:39, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New picture

Someone please upload a picture of him as a Barcelona player.

You know, its not that easy getting pictures willy-nilly... Mattythewhite 18:18, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes and if you do please ensure it complies with copyright rules -- WP ones. Best if they are your own. Chensiyuan 00:59, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

What about photoshopped pictures all over the world? They ain't got bitten by no lisence. Besides, no problem taking a picture from fcbarcelona.dk, and just do a few effects in photoshop, and whoops, it's yours. Some.. how.

that doesn't always work. i don't agree with the stringent copyright requirements of WP, but that's the way it is. Chensiyuan 14:58, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Split

Any mention of the split should be well-sourced. So far all the edits have either been unsourced, poorly sourced, or worse, misreprenting sources. Chensiyuan 00:53, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Wouldnt it be better to put a picture of him in an Arsenal or French shirt? I mean, he's played there for most of his career, and that is where is most famous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beepos (talk • contribs) 15:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goals/Apps

To anyone editing the infobox -- please note that the goals/appearances pertain to domestic league only. Not UEFA games, not cup games, and certainly not friendlies. Chensiyuan 07:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FAC?

Is it really to be nominated? I would say it is. Buc 15:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I've contributed a fair bit to the article and well it might be worth a shot but i suspect it'd be quite hugely contested. The depth in coverage and use of references are certainly FA standard IMO, but the prose (tightness, grammar etc) always proves to be the main grouse for objectors. Chensiyuan 16:18, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Well looking at it again, there's always room for more depth -- book references perhaps. I never found it particularly compelling, but books always gives you a little more (or at least variety in sources, possibly reducing bias as well), and satisfies voters. Chensiyuan 00:43, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

I am unfamiliar with how to upload pictures to wikipedia (for copyright reasons, not the inability to actually upload them), but does anyone have a picture of him either not in uniform or in a Barcelona uniform that would be appropriate. It just seems him as an Arsenal player should be changed to something else. Isaiah 20:49, 4 September 2007 (UTC) (forgot to sign)

It doesn't matter what shirt he's wearing. All the picture's there for is to see what he looks like. Mattythewhite 20:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
As you pointed out if you want him in a Barca shirt that's fine provided it fulfils copyright requirements... Chensiyuan 23:16, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Matty, I think my point is mainly that the picture doesn't really show what he looks like and he's now no longer an Arsenal player. If someone is new to the site and just glancing around sees that he's in an Arsenal kit, that could cause confusion. While that confusion is that person's own personal problem, it just seems that you could kill two birds with one stone. But again, I don't understand the copyright issues on Wiki and am merely suggesting an alternative to the current picture. I am personally neither bothered nor confused by the picture. Isaiah 00:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Easiest if you own a pic of him in a Barca shirt and you agree to release it for WP use. Or if you don't own it, then you'd have to get permission to use it. Chensiyuan 00:37, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyedit

I have a few concerns/queries, which are marked in the article text with <!--COPYEDITOR'S NOTE:...-->:

  • In the third paragraph of the "Early Career" section, there is a mention of the U-20 French national team, but the link is to the U-21
  • The reference for this statement is a broken link - it just redirects to the fifa.com index.
  • I replaced lots of hyphens with en dashes, in keeping with WP:DASH - saves trouble later at FAC! Cricketgirl 15:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Broken links

The following references have broken links or are no longer current: 4, 5, 6, 10, 11, 20, 22, 34, 35, 36 (which also mis-spells "adidas"), 47, 49, 60 is just a picture - this might need to be put in context. This is definitely something that FAC will rip to shreds, so it's worth fixing. Cricketgirl 15:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Y Done fixed all refs (note: ref no.s above won't be accurate as i've shifted/subsumed/deleted refs where necessary) -- i've also removed refs from the lead as they are a little cumbersome; in any case refs are provided in the body. one thing's for sure: fifa and yahoo links are a bad idea. thanks Cricketgirl for kindly combing through the mess. Chensiyuan 11:55, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] featuring in commercials

Why isn't it mentioned that he also featured in Pepsi commercial along with backham, roberto carlos and others? --Rustavizauri (talk) 00:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

If you could point us to a source, would be happy to include it. Chensiyuan (talk) 00:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Here is one For April 2005 and Youtube Video 1 & #2. --Rustavizauri (talk) 05:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
In now. Chensiyuan (talk) 06:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Done. Thanks! --Rustavizauri (talk) 06:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I added his appearance in the Reebok Framed series with Paz Vega. The full 1/2 hour episode is really good, as is the 2 minute commercial. There's another Reebok short on their website where they highlight his childhood, his playing style and someone he looks up to (Allen Iverson). Didn't think all of that deserved mention on his WP page though. Shevchenko and Casillas are featured too.Zerotta (talk) 20:07, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I have fixed the formatting of the ref for you. Chensiyuan (talk) 01:32, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I saw that, thanks. I've actually never really made a direct ref on wp until then. I tried copying the format of another one but didn't get it quite right and figured at least the source was there.Zerotta (talk) 01:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I've searched and searched after watching it the first time, but I can't find the full 30 minute episode anywhere. I originally found it by clicking on a Reebok ad on Yahoo! for the Baron Davis/Emmanuelle Chriqui Framed episode. I can find the two minute commercial though. vexing... Zerotta (talk) 14:11, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

The following sentence doesn't settle with the info provided in the infobox: "He was spotted by AS Monaco in 1990 and signed instantly, making his professional debut in 1994." If he signed instantly what are all those other teams between 1990-1994 (with the exception of clairefontaine, I suppose he could've been contracted to Monaco and still at clairefontaine)? Yonatan talk 03:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yonatan, surprisingly I see you here, too. Sadly, I don't have a good answer, but I think that the explanation is that he wasn't allowed yet to play for Monaco because he needed to attend that acedemy, and therefore played for their team. YemeniteCamel (talk) 09:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Release Clause

This article refers to a release clause. As an American, I'm not familiar with the concept. Perhaps wikipedia could have a page explaining football release clauses? 207.10.60.100 (talk) 14:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't find an article about it on wiki but can offer a basic explaination from my own understanding.

The term Minimum Release Clause, refers to a contract clause common in European and South American footballers contracts (but not in the UK, where it is illegal). It relates to a Minimum Release Fee, an amount of money specified in the contract, to which the employer club is legally obliged to accept a transfer offer if that offer meets the Minimum Release Fee, but may reject any offer that does not meet the Minimum Release Fee. It is prominent in less wealthy clubs in South America who wish to secure young potential players and protect them from European clubs that wish to poach them for an undervalued amount. Eg. A club may offer €5M for a player who has a Minimum Release Fee of €10M, and the club which he is contracted to rejects the transfer. Then the buying club offers €10M which meets the Minimum Release Fee and the selling club has no choice but to accept the transfer, allowing the buying club to enter into contract discussion with the player, who can accept the transfer or reject the contract and stay at his current club. It has a similar use in Europe, but Minimum Release Fees could range into hundreds of millions of Euros to protect high-quality players from being poached by richer clubs for an undervalued amount. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moomoo25 (talk • contribs) 06:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Total goals for Arsenal

Something is wrong with the total tally of goals for Arsenal. http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?thisNav=the+club&article=341526&lid=History&Title=Club+Records Lists him as having 214 total goals and only 164 League goals. ````imothyt —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imothyt (talk • contribs) 18:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Note the rubric on the top of that page -- correct as of 18 May 2006. That was one full season before he left for Barca, no? In any event, we have two decent sources for 174. But thanks for pointing this out, it was worth investigating. Chensiyuan (talk) 23:55, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A few things

Hey guys, really good article (but you know that, it got FA and that's how I found it) but two things: firstly, shouldn't the lead mention the criticism he's faced at Barca for his poor from, and secondly in the "Transfer to Barcelona" bit, it says the transfer was "and unexpected turn of events", which it really wasn't; rumours of that transfer had floated for at least two yeas, Barca had made bids and two months beforehand Henry stated numerous inviting comments. Idon't have sources but I'm 100% that they are out there and this stuff should be in there. Michael Clarke, Esq. (talk) 00:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

First, thank you for your comments. Yes this article is in need of an update, but I was thinking I'd get round to giving it a complete update at the end of the season. However, if anyone feels they can chip in at this point of time, they're more than welcome to. As for the unexpectedness: well, I'm not persuaded that the existence of transfer rumours vindicates expectedness. Especially when it concerns teams like Barca, Real, or the Milans, who're constantly linked to right about all the top players on the planet. I think it was stated as unexpected because of what Henry and Wenger had said before re: Henry leaving. Chensiyuan (talk) 01:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I suppose, but I would have thought that if there are multiple sources out there with the same rumour, then we can show that he'd been persistently linked. The fact is the links tuned out to be right so it feels like it should be mentioned. That, and the fact he said he wouldn't leave should both be in there. --Michael Clarke, Esq. (talk) 01:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pace?

What's pace (lead sentence)? Running speed? Speed of the balls he kicks? Goals per game (least likely)? I suggest an explanation.

By the way, I think "goal-scoring record" should be hyphenated as I just did. —JerryFriedman (Talk) 16:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Pace as generally understood. The way it's phrased, the first. Chensiyuan (talk) 23:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I think "running pace" or "running speed" would be a lot more generally understood, at least in America. —JerryFriedman (Talk) 21:55, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps, but pace is a standard term for the running speed in soccer. It implies a certain component of ball control too, I'd say - it's more than just running, but running with control of the ball. I may be wrong there, though. Adacore (talk) 07:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

I don't know who this guy is, but I clicked on this article on the main page and all it said was "he likes boys", so I fixed it. --Smart Mark Greene (talk) 17:01, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Happens when an FA hits the main page. Chensiyuan (talk) 23:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

There is LOADS of vandalism on this page. Could somebody please warn whoever added the Screaming Eagles, girls school u11s, and "Worthless Cup" comments, as they are not needed and are defamtory. Thanks 86.135.209.39 (talk) 20:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Goal Tally for Barcelona

Can anyone confirm Henry's goals in domestic cup competitions for Barcelona? Someone edited it to four goals in two matches a few weeks ago, and I'm not sure if that tally is right. Xioyux (talk) 20:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC)