User talk:Thewanderer

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[edit] Welcome!

Hi, Thewanderer, Welcome to Wikipedia!


[edit]

Here are some tasks you can do:

I hope you like this place--I sure do--and want to stay. If you need help on how to title new articles check out Wikipedia:Naming conventions, and for help on formatting the pages visit the manual of style. If you need help look at Wikipedia:Help and The FAQ , plus if you can't find your answer there, check The Village pump (for Wikipedia related questions) or The Reference Desk (for general questions)! There's still more help at the Tutorial and Policy Library. Plus, don't forget to visit the Community Portal. And if you have any more questions after that, feel free to post them on My User talk Page.

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Happy Wiki-ing. -- John Fader 18:43, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Josip Juraj Strossmayer

Weird! Perhaps the database misrecorded someone else's edits, somehow. --Joy [shallot] 20:56, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: 1991 BiH census Muslim vs. Bosniak

I put in Muslims by nationality because that was the most accurate description of the option shown in the census. However, I don't object to the changes, either, because it was only a couple of years later that the Bosnian Muslims changed their collective name to Bosniaks and since then the phrase "Muslims by nationality" is not accepted as a nationality in Bosnia and Herzegovina (as far as I know). Technically we could add a note to each of those premature mentions of "Bosniak" but it makes little practical difference. --Joy [shallot] 21:07, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Was the Una-Cetina line border between Croats and Serbs in the Medieval Ages? HolyRomanEmperor 15:56, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Moving of List of Bosnians

Hi there... you forgot to vote ;-) --Dijxtra 13:20, 2 December 2005 (UTC)



[edit] Hercegovina

The answer to your question can be clarified by simply putting it as if hercegovina is a part of Bosnia. It's a common misunderstanding to believe that hercegovina and Bosnia are two differenten countries, but however the case is not so, Bosnia counts for the whole surface of the Country while hercegovina is just a part of Bosnias surface. Oh gush I maybe complicated it, you could say by other words hercegovina is just a county within Bosnia. Damir Mišić ~(oh yes btw. please put up headlines on my disc. page and don't just write messages with out a headline)


Ime drzave Bosne I hercegovine se je malo izkompleksiralo, ali jedan licnost je ako bi se Hrvatska zvala "Hrvatska i Dalmacija"...Damir Mišić ~

No, sjeti se Hrvatska i Slavonija koja je postojala od 19 vijeka do ukidanja 1921 novim ustavom Srba, Hrvata i Slovenaca. HolyRomanEmperor 17:56, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Uffff...skoro ce HolyRomanEmperor da svede cijelu Jugoslaviju za sobom. --VKokielov 03:13, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Croatian_history

I think that we need this category; I have included the Category:History_of_Croatia on numerious articles (Duklja, Zahumlje, Travunia), but it would be somewhat incorrect. Why can't we have Category:Croatian_history so that we can place it everywhere and end were there is a presence of Croatian historical legacy (i. e. Boka Kotorska, Kosovo, Vojvodina). Could you make that category? --HolyRomanEmperor 19:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much. :) Could you please put that category on those my articles to the up (I don't really have time)? And there are a lot of other articles that should have that instead of Category:History of Croatia. Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 13:29, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, samo imam mali problem. Duklja se nije nalazila na teritoriju trenutnih granica Hrvatske, vec samo kada se proširila na zapad, jednom prilikom i do Knina. Da li onda da taj članak sadrži Category:History of Croatia ili Category:Croatian history? --HolyRomanEmperor 22:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Herzegovinians

Because I believe the statements in the paragraph just aren't correct. The term (Bosnians) hasn't been "recently" applied to Herzegovinians because Herzegovina has been just one part of the Bosnian political unit for centuries. Thats why you'll find numerous mentions of people from Herzegovina since the late middle ages who are also referred to as Bosnians. And nothing has been "limited to the Bosniak population" - I know this from personal experience. Three fourths of my family originate from Herzegovina and I still have lots of relatives in Konjic, Mostar, Stolac, etc. There's definitely a strong sense of regional pride among them that I think is no less than that among their Serb or Croat neighbors.

Regarding the article, I don't mind there being some sort of mention of this strong regional pride I described. However, I don't agree with the previous version which made it seem as if the term "Bosnians" was being forcibly applied and was without historical basis. Live Forever 01:41, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi there, Thewanderer,
I came across your discussion about Herzegovina and Herzegovinians and though a couple of points could help clarify the matter. As always, all matters Balkan and, more specifically, Bosnian and Herzegovinian, are complicated and clouded by recent events.
But, as Live Forever has pointed out, the region of Herzegovina was part of Bosnia until Stjepan Vukcic Kosaca took the title of Herzeg, after which the region he more or less controlled became known as Herzegovina. Kosaca himself, and those around him, were most prominent amongst the proponents of the Bosnian identity and "state" (he, of all Bosnian nobles, was the one known never to have wavered from his faith in the Bosnian Church, amongst other things, and never converted to Catholicism, which was one of the key points of contention between him and King Stephen Thomas), so, paradoxically, Herzegovina was more of a political formation created in defence of these views (and Kosaca's power, of course) than anything else.
So, the interesting thing (when you say that many Herzegovinians would never consider themselves Bosnians) is that such attitude is in fact more recent, than it is to call Herzegovinians Bosnians. Having said that, they have a strong regional identity (and Kosaca died a long time ago, :-)), which nobody denies anyway, but nobody applies 'Bosnian' as some forced upon, unifying identity to them, it's just one of those parallel historical and cultural references so often found in the Balkans and in Bosnia (so, when you read Petar Kocic, for instance, whom many Serbs consider to be a quintessential Serb - though of the Bosnian "variety", :-), you will find that he refers to himself and his people as Serbs and Bosniaks as an interchangeable term, eg see "Jazavac pred sudom"). This only becomes problematic when one starts to apply recent political and highly politicised (and emotional) approach to B&H, but has no "grounding" in the B&H culture and history. Hope this helps. Cheers. Fomafomich 05:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi there, and thanks for your response. I haven't read the article you were writing, just left you a comment as an aside. We don't disagree on anything, what I am explaining here is that there are parallel (and some not so parallel) references to the inhabitants of Herzegovina as Zahumljani, Travuljani, Neretljani, Bosnians, Herzegovinians, Hrvati, Srbi, etc, etc ... and that, in saying that Herzegovinians are part of Bosnian cultural or political corpus is something of a historical and cultural process captured by spoken tradition, not a matter of intended offence to Herzegovinians (in other words, I was saying that whoever said it probably didn't mean to offend).
It is very clear to anyone observing contemporary political situation in Herzegovina that Herzegovinians object to being called Bosnians - and even Herzegovinians, for that matter. Whether Hum, or Iliricum, or Herzeg-Bosna or whatever else, came first or second or third, is not of personal interest to me, and neither is fighting over whether those who lived there 800 years ago had more or less right to the region than those living there 600 years ago or those who came 400 years ago.
So, what I was saying is that there is a historical consensus that Herzegovina (and, as a result, Herzegovinians) are called by that name since Herzeg Stjepan. Historically speaking, it is interesting to me how Herzegovina, from being the heart of the very existence of Bosnia during Herzeg Stjepan's times, became the opposite of that. And, as for Bosnians and Herzegovians, what I am saying is that using "Bosnian" as a reference to everyone living there is more a matter of persistence of oral tradition based on historical referencing (thus my comment about Herzeg Stjepan and Petar Kocic), than a matter of some insiduous and offensive political referencing. And if they should be called Zahumljani or Neretljani or whatever, rather than Herzegovinas, or Herzegovinians rather than Bosnians, so be it. And in any case, I don't have the naming rights, :-). Best, Fomafomich 15:26, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ofcourse

Ofcourse. You only needed to ask, without that hidden insult between the lines. ;-D

AFAIC, most Serbian historians argue that Vojvodina should not be considered a portion of Croatian history because they view the population as insignificant, notwithstanding that Srem was a part of Croatia at periods. --HolyRomanEmperor 17:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Have you got some useful sources on the History of Herzegovina? I like how the article is currently going but its still poor; so we'll need to act fast not to let it end like a ready-to-delete stub. Any help that you can through's useful! Bog! :)--HolyRomanEmperor 16:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wait a minute...

OK, OK. I'm seeing but bad between-the-line word waves over here (you know what I mean). :(

The Eastern Herzegovina is actually the boring bit. What's really interesting is the soil between Mostar and Ston; which is a 1,000-year cultural heritage, and no one talks about it (although, a lot is known about it.) Regards, and I hope that your negative impression will disappear like morning darkness! Bog! --HolyRomanEmperor 15:30, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just wanted to say...

..."hvala" for the HSS Infobox. Will locate and insert logo soon :) Greetingz from Iaşi in Romania (don't ask), nepTune 15:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Croats

Wow, you're rushing for a wikiproject, and I just created this shell: Portal:Croats. --HolyRomanEmperor 12:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Messenger

Do you use any messengers? I prefer this type of comunication. Luka Jačov 16:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Its even better. I ll be on Serbian wiki IRC channel till now. Luka Jačov 18:34, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Image Tagging Image:Petar Svačić.JPG

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[edit] I don't know what to do

Serb vandal Bormalagurski has asked his pro-Serb admin friends to help him, spamming talk pages with trolling and personal attacks, protecting the page and contrary to all rules blocking users who revert such Serb vandalism and personal attacks on their own talk page. He posted a "warning" threatening me with being "blocked for disruption" because I voted against his admin candidacy, and he and others have engaged in revert war to keep the Malagurski trolling on the user talk page. For example he also wrote on the talk page "Allow me to make an impersonation of you: Serbs are guilty for everything. All Croats are saints. I love my pope, who let's me get away with everything. I'm so Serbophobic that I can't even allow Serbian posts on my user page. That's why I voted for the deletion of the article "Serbophobia", because it doesn't exist." [1]. They are also conspiring to enforce their POV. See "User:Croatian Historian" and "Revert war" at User_talk:Bormalagurski, as well as User_talk:Purrger (one of their sockpuppet accounts) for some evidence (lots more may be found). They use large numbers of sock puppets. I don't know what to do. Admin candidacy of Bormalagurski failed for obvious reasons, but it seems some people like him were able to get enough votes. This is a very serious problem for those who oppose the massive Serb nationalist vandalism on dozens of articles and Greater Serbian anti-Croatian propaganda articles.

[edit] Template

This user is a member of WikiProject Croatia.




Hey, I made a template for everyone who's a part of this project! Put it on your user page, maybe more people will join when they see how cool it would look on their page!!! --M.B. 01:05, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User:WikiMB

Just a short note to let you know that User:WikiMB is, in all likelyhood, another account that has been opened by User:Bormalagurski. Given the number of his edits and the approach he is using he is probably aiming at eventually getting adminship at Wikipedia which User:Bormalagurski failed to secure on a couple of attempts for all the known reasons. Needless to say, this would have interesting consequences on our efforts to maintain articles related to Croatia. I had suspected this for some time, but I didn't have any proof until yesterday (April 2) when User:Bormalagurski made a mistake of deleting a Luka Jačov's comment left on User:WikiMB's discussion under Re:Template. Luka Jačov appeared 5 minutes after this deletion and left a slightly modified comment. Pretty interesting tempering with another user's page on the part of User:Bormalagurski. Of course, User:WikiMB re-appeared 5 minutes later as if nothing had happened to add another PR remark. For more info check WB's history page]. EurowikiJ 12:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is a follow-up on the note that I have left above. The administrator on the check-user page has decided not to conduct a check on the User:Bormalagurski and User:WikiMB. Though my claim was based on a chain of strange edits that took place on WikiMB's discussion page on April 2 and certainly not on any editing pattern, the administrator concluded that "Just from looking at the contributions I find it unlikely that these two are sockpuppets of one another; they appear to me to be distinct editors.". Hence, the request was denied and the accounts in question were not checked. For User:Bormalagurski and User:WikiMB's reaction(s) and arguments, please see the entry at Request for Check User page, WikiMB's and my talk pages. EurowikiJ 09:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

You're the only one to whom I'm writing this. I've lost trust in the only person I've trusted, and I have no where else to turn. I've joined Wikipedia at the advice of my friend Boris Malagurski with a goal of helping out with Croatia-related articles, but now I've been accused of being a sockpupped of Boris, by EurowikiJ. I'm not asking for anything from you... I just had to say this to someone... I feel really bad right now... So far, Wikipedia has been a really fun experience for me, now... Well, thanks for reading this. Sorry to bother you. --M.B. 23:58, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You can't imagine how much I appreciate you taking the time to give me words of helpful advice. The request for CheckUser was denied, and now I have to work on clearing my name to others... I must admit it will be hard for me to forgive EurowikiJ for what he has done to me, but in time, I hope we could cooperate in making Wikipedia a better place for everyone. Once again, thank you for taking the time to give me advice. --M.B. 00:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:POV tag at Boka Kotorska

Ofcourse. Any of those you mentioned are more than sencible. In fact, I placed the wrong tag. It's not POV, it's just silly. Just think of it, a geographical site (a bay) and having a section named by a foreign country.

Deside what you think's best. All the best! --HolyRomanEmperor 20:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: WP Croatia

Hi, I saw the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Croatia/Policy, but I find it too general; all of it is already summarized in various WP:Pages. You might as well wrote "behave nice" :-). By the way, I didn't see too much Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian edit warring recently; the things seem to relatively quiet up (maybe because Nikola Smolenski and Emir Arven are inactive :-)? ). The most active Serbian and Croatian editors in the last days are mostly reasonable (if PoV-able on occasion). (Disclaimer: I don't watch many, if any, pages related with Yugoslav wars.) That isn't to say that the articles are good overall, just that extreme PoV pushing from the past is being replaced with moderate PoV-pushing. (Btw, we're having problems with several Kosovar editors recently; the Kosovo-related articles – which I don't care much about – are Serbian-PoV-ed, but they apply tactic "shoot first" instead of discussing).

But I'm digressing – as for general Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian consensus, we'd better have an agreement on guidelines regarding specific issues. For example, there was much debate on ethnic affiliation (and, even more, wording) for Nikola Tesla, Ivo Andrić, Meša Selimović, Ruđer Bošković etc. A guideline could be e.g:

  • Avoid specifying ethnic affiliation of the person in the introductory section. If it's inavoidable, use the broadest possible ("Serbian/Croatian", "Yugoslavian") or a geographic one ("from Dubrovnik"). If necessary, discuss the ethnic background or claims thereof in a separate section.

Also:

  • Accept that some members of your nation have performed war crimes and other bad things. Accept that it should be mentioned (and particularly, who concretely is responsible for that) in relevant articles in a NPOV manner. Don't use WP:POINT to write that e.g. "Xs are war criminals" in all X-related articles.

Etc.

Do you have a specific example of recent edit warring? Duja 18:15, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The confunsion over me...

that you have is enigmous to me... I categorize myself under Category:Wikipedians in Serbia and Montenegro, because I live in Serbia and Montenegro. My two houses (one of them being my birthland) are in Slovenia and Croatia; while I was born in actual Croatia, my family originates from Montenegro from my mother's side. And yes, if you must really now, I converted to Orthodoxy from Catholicism officially long ago out of mere solidarization with my college-freinds. I said "Well, what the heck! It's all Christianity."

I have no idea why you barge me like that, but didn't you ever think that your he is obviously a Serb I find insultive. Trully and faithully yours, --HolyRomanEmperor 19:02, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Nah, I'm very hard to offend. :) No hard feelings at all! It's just I would like that people would really state what's wrong at times, and not just blantly state that it's wrong. If you hadn't noticed I have talked to everyone over everything, and every time the agreement was orchestrated by me. But sometimes, like in the case of Euro, I talked to him twice, and he ignored both my comments. You see, the only way to interpret that is by you-know-what-way.
Sincerely yours.
P. S. When are you going back to edit the History of Herzegovina? You're needed there! --HolyRomanEmperor 18:34, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: jhnp

I can give it a shot, but I can't make any guarantees that I won't butcher it as well :) The translation won't rhyme, that's for sure... --Joy [shallot] 12:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hercegovci

Kako se Hercegovci osjecaju kad je njihovo ime podrijedjeno Bosancima? --HolyRomanEmperor 18:11, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


Well I totally agree with you, and that is what I want you (or someone else) to write in the article; the true connection and the historical geographical meaning of herzeg-bosnia. Damir Mišić

[edit] KK Split

Zahvalio bi ti šta si napravio clanak. Bilo je stvarno sramota šta ga nije bilo i imao sam u planu to napravit. Jakiša Tomić 22:52, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


Please, the Bosnian region Herzeg-bosna existed a long time before the people there even began to call themselves croats. Herzeg-bosna is a geographical region of Bosnia, thought about mentioning this in the article? Damir Mišić 01:16, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Request for Comments on Borovo Selo raid

Please add your statement on views at the top of the talk page in the designated area. Asterion talk to me 05:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pitanje za Hercegovca

Kak' se Hercegovci osjecaju kad je njihovo ime podrijedjeno Bosancima? :) --HolyRomanEmperor 20:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging for Image:Mostar Municipality.PNG

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[edit] ???

O čemu ti pričaš? Samo pokušavam da sredim kategorije Federacije, jer je neshvatljivo da još niko to nije uradio. O kakvom ratu izmena i diskusiji pričaš? PANONIAN (talk) 02:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi there. I left the message to Panonian for similar reasons that you have discovered and I find it equally troubleing. He also added numerous RS history categories to articles that have absolutely no relation to the subject. --Dado 02:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Church of Sibenik

You have reverted my changes. If you will do it again, I will contact a moderator to inform of your vandalism. --Giovanni Giove 19:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mostar

I don't believe Mostar minucipality has ever been divided in 2 municipalities, except that part of minicipality in Rep. Srpska being new municipality.

Can you give me some sources for your claim? --Ante Perkovic 15:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ilok

Pogledaj ovo: Talk:Ilok. Ako znaš nešto više o tome da li su porodice Gorjanski i Iločki bili Hrvati ili Mađari, molim te da napišeš tamo. PANONIAN (talk) 12:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:BosnaCOA.PNG

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[edit] Croatian Chess Federation

Thanks for creating the Croatian Chess Federation article. I think it would be great if Wikipedia would have articles on all national chess federations, and your contribution helps. 165.189.91.148 15:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We appreciate your creation of the article, Zadarfest, but we cannot accept copyrighted text borrowed from other web sites or printed material. Please see Wikipedia:Copyright problems for more information on this topic, or generally, Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines. Please do not remove the copyright violation notice placed in the article or repost the suspected infringing text. However, if you would like to rewrite the article in your own words, follow the link in the posted notice to create a temporary subpage. If your new article is appropriate, and not a further copyright violation, the reviewing administrator will move that new article into place once the copyright status of the original has been resolved. Happy editing! MECU≈talk 17:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

My apologies. I have reverted the page from before my blanking. Have a good day. --MECU≈talk 04:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Odgovor

"perhaps you should've waited more than a few hours for a reply at the height of vacation season among ex-Yu users, rather than acting so rashly"

Jel? A što ti ne odgovoriš prvo tamo umesto da revertuješ? a? PANONIAN (talk) 20:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Croatian Basketball Federation.jpg replaced by better quality image and listed for deletion

An image that you uploaded, Croatian Basketball Federation.jpg, has been replaced by better quality image, Croatian Basketball Federation.png, and has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please consider checking there if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. -- Bojan {chat} 12:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CWofI

My apologies. Was unaware about the etiquette and I noticed a Serb wikipedian doing the same (see here [[2]]) and assumed it was commonplace. I have since removed my comments from the relevant talk pages.
Thanks for the advise :) croatian_quoll 23:41, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Image:Dalmatia_Croatia_and_Slavonia.gif

This image you uploaded is very good. But the site you got it from has a new version of it that looks much better. Have a look. So if you want, maybe you should upload the new one; just a suggestion:) - Ivan Kricancic 14:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think I made a mistake and it's a flag from a different era. Sorry. - Ivan Kricancic 14:13, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maccabi

Hello Wanderer, Rosso has an Israeli citizenship and is considered an Israeli now (for example, there is a limit of 5 strangers in each team in Israel, and Rosso is not included in that count). ⌠Yellow up⌡ 19:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

I am sorry for the actions of my "dear" friend "Thunderman". He does not represent the BiH community. There are nationalistic people from all sides and hope you are not a person like that. Having said the latter, I would like to formally invite you back to the project, reconsidering your decisions. He cannot affect anyone else's work. I ask of this, since I would like to have different ethnicities in my project to form a better quality of articles. I never expected it to go this far, that we are having disputes. Thank you for your cooperation. Please leave me a personal message. Vseferović 22:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Great then, thanks, Vseferović 22:53, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BiH

You might be interested in some of the recent edits to the BiH article. [3] --estavisti 21:35, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Matej

Talk:Matej Zmajević --PaxEquilibrium 20:11, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thought you might want to know...

User:Thunderman has been blocked. (This is regarding the issues of the BiH Wikiproject). He was a sockpuppet of User:Hahahahibo. Thanks for returning. Vseferović 01:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heh...

Are you really a Croatian farmer? Not many farmers (ping: no generalization insult intended!) speak wise words... ;)

P. S. Well, the Serbs too don't really have their own nation-state. Some changes are being brought right now in Serbia, but they aren't really drastic, but something in-betweens (as I hear they defined Serbia a mixture between Civic-state and Nation-state, but still leaning more to the first). Bog! --PaxEquilibrium 17:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Mostar / Aga Khan Award winners and Aga Khan Trust for Culture Projects cats

Hi Thewanderer. I noticed that you removed Category:Aga Khan Trust for Culture Projects and Category:Aga Khan Award for Architecture winners from the Mostar article. I believe these should be restored. I have stated my reasons on the Talk:Mostar page. -- Aylahs (talk) 18:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jevrem Brkovic

He didn't freely left. He was a political dissident who was practically exiled and left to Croatia under pressure. Same as Cuban emigrants to USA (almost). --PaxEquilibrium 13:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] King Petar Krešimir IV

Petar Krešimir IV of Croatia

It's a shame that we have a bad article for the very greatest ruler of Croatia. I made some expansions and tidied it, but most of the content wasn't chronological at all, and I couldn't verify anywhere. Could you please find me a source for Peter Cresimir so that I can put it (it has none whatsoever so far). Also, any assistance in cleaning up the mess and chronologically reordering it will be very much appreciated... --PaxEquilibrium 16:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I've got no idea - but you gave the idea that I need a stop too. :) Maybe we've finally stopped being Balkanized :D "Second"? Duja has already become an admin. :) If that's what you're interested in, I could nominate you... but you gotta hurry up 'cause that will be the last thing I'll do in a time... --PaxEquilibrium 18:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Croats from Slovenia

Very good article, and useful link to the Slovenian census from where I personally updated the Yugoslavs page (ie. the 517 in Slovenia). I'd like to extend the article briefly and since you have so far been the only editor, could you tell me one small thing. The Slovenian Croats: are they diasporans originating from a region where people have traditionally called themselves Croats and have maintained their identity? Or are they ethnic locals who have simply chosen that Croatian should be their identity as should that of all Slovenes (along the lines of Starcević's 19th century sketch of Croatia including modern-day Slovenia and parts of Austria & Hungar etc)? or with such a significant number, do you know if they are a combination of the two? If not, don't worry, I'll serach more deeply. Thanks. Evlekis 16:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think you may find there is a bit more to the Croatness of today's Slovenes than just old writings (after all, all nationalist theories have been based on old writings). I've read from people here the mention of Alpine Croats but what has caused me to speculate further is the inclusion of Istria in present day Croatia. According to sources, the term Croat doesn't sit as well with all Slavic locals there as it does in Zagreb, and the older encyclopaedias (Catholic, Brittanica) which just about get published before WWI, speak of ethnic Slovenes being the people of Istria, which in turn adjoins the provinces which make up todays Slovenia (and the north coast of Istria makes up Slovenia's sea access). But what is "Slovene" in meaning if not a surviving name for 'Slav'!! They all saw themselves as Slavs and my own ancestors in Macedonia long called themselves "Sloveni" before interference from Bulgarians and Serbs which as you probably know was finally settled by the idea of a "Macedonian nation entire of itself". Obviously, I am neutral and I don't argue with people's desire to be one nation more than another and like you, I am concerned for the national rights of Slovenia's Croats in every sense whatever the reason they are Croat. But back to the main points: with so many thousand there, naturally some will be from the two Yugoslavias (which explains the Serbs, Bosniaks, Montenegrins and Macedonians too) as it was better developed. But on the whole, we'll say that the main purpose of the Croats being in Slovenia is along the same lines as why we find Croats in Burgenland and accross in Bratislava, Hungary: fleeing earlier onslaughts, setting up home, maintaining/adopting identity. I take it that will be all right with you if I mention this? Evlekis 16:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] My reverts

Hi Thewanderer, I just wanted to inform you that the reverts removing Croatian names from a series of articles are not due to the edits having been made by a sock, and not because I oppose their insertion. I also greatly appreciate the spirit of compromise and the civility you have displayed in this sort of disputes, especially when dealing problematic editors such as GiorgioOrsini. Ciao,--Aldux 17:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bocans

The article's now a bigger mess than it was. Please help. Cheers and happy new year (a bit late, though)! --PaxEquilibrium 11:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

???--PaxEquilibrium 16:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notice

Hey, before any of us do anything further regarding Stjepan Tomas, I should let you know that the original move was made by User:The Wilky Bar Kid, a long-time contributor in the area of sports. Please contact him about any disputes regarding the diacritic mark, because I was following his lead.

See here. Sorry for any confusion GracenotesT § 18:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Wait, never mind, I was confusing User:The Wilky Bar Kid with someone else. He is not a long-time contributor in the area of sports... but still, he may (or may not) have a point. GracenotesT § 18:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
OK, I've saw your note on the talk pages... hm, that's odd. Oh well; if there's anything else that I can do to correct my mistakes, tell me. (But Stjepan Tomas and Stjepan Tomaš could be easily confused, so a disambiguation page may still be warranted.) GracenotesT § 18:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Finally, I am adding back a link between Stjepan Tomas and Stjepan Tomaš Kotromanić, in case confusion results. After all, the difference is only a caron. Thanks for your help.

The Original Barnstar
This Barnstar is for calmly helping me with the caron problem, and for founding and following through with WikiProject Croatia. Please, keep it up! GracenotesT § 18:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Bok

Bokelji su mesani narod. Ovde na Wiki pise da su Bokelji po tradiciji Srbi. To je cisti Serb Pov edit. Nije istina da su Bokelji samo Srbi. Moji roditelji su Bokelji preko 500 godina i Katolici pa i donekle i Hrvati po krvi. U mestima Perast i Tivat..Bokelji su i Hrvati.

Jagoda 1 02:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the article needs a lot of work - but no where does it imply that all inhabitants of Boka are Serbs.
Wanderer, I've got an idea - why don't you concentrate on Croats of Boka kotorska and I simply take a bunch of the info from the Bokelji article and merge it with the Boka kotorska article, leaving only either a redirect to that article, or at least small disambiguation page. What do you say? --PaxEquilibrium 22:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Yugoslav wars

I've begun work on Template:Yugoslav wars. It's a work in progress, but feel free to add anything I've overlooked/haven't got round to yet.--Hadžija 18:40, 20 January 2007 (UTC)--

[edit] Red Croatia?

This vote was brought up for the wrong reasons, relating mostly to the nominator's editting history.

Don't you think you've got it all wrong? :)

My suggestion was that the note itself isn't notable enough to be excluded from Travunia, Zachlumia and Doclea. We have Serb-POVised articles and we (had before I proofread it) a Croatian heavily POVised article. I started the vote to see if people think that Red Croatia is notable enough to be separate from those three articles. But while it is as such, for Wikipedia's policies of no repetition, we must not place it in those articles - so the are you truly in support of a unbalanced Wikipedia? --PaxEquilibrium 18:19, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Battle of Samobor

Please avoid starting articles from material from my website because all I get in return is Wikipedia is pushing me out of top spot battle of samobor and since my websites isn't considered reliable source that link will disappear during some spam cleanup (see my talk page). :-( --Ivan Bajlo 14:53, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I did try to remove Croatian 104 Brigade which had only info taken from my website but I since it wasn't copied word for word I can only get backlink, not much comfort especially since they now have nofollow tag so I get no benefit of wikipedia's high page rank. :-(
Hopefully I'll hit jackpot on state lottery soon, then I can donate my entire website to Wikipedia and hire bunch of people to write instead of me. :-))
P.S. Could you only change name of External link to Reference or Source as that would be more correct - I could do that myself but then it would be Conflict of Interests. :-)) --Ivan Bajlo 15:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TFD of one of your templates

You should see Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 February 6#Template:Croatia Squad 1996 European Championship — coelacan talk — 02:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:3RR

You have violated Wikipedia's 3-revert rule, twice, on the Republic of Ragusa article. I am not going to undo your removal of the category until I can get the name of it changed, but once I do that, I will report any further reversions by you. Αργυριου (talk) 09:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Thewanderer.
Don't overreact.
Don't allow yourself to be intimidated by Argyriou's threats. See his contribution and comment on the article of Dubrovnik Republic [4]. Or the material on [5]. "Italian state"? He says that when Croatia/Croats claim the parts of Croatia, that thas's "imperialism"?
He brought a charge against himself there. There he prepared the arguments for a wiki-sentence against him.
Sam si je napisao optužnicu i pripremio si dokaze za wikipedijsku presudu protiv njega.
Have these links always in mind. Whenever he threatens you, remind him with things he wrote. Kubura 17:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Igor Mandic

Do you have any source for his article?

P.S. Why do you almost never reply posts? --PaxEquilibrium 01:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VANDALISM

Do I have to remind that a language can have several dialects?

Spanish has Venezuelan and Argentinian, German has Swiss or Austrian, etc.

Linguists say Serbo-Croatian is only one language, and a neutral project has to follow serious guidelines, not political porpuses. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SISLEY (talk • contribs) 21:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

It wasn't a lie we put both categories in Serbo-Croatian films, OK? I found a categorisation like that in another wikipedia.

What are you doing? This wikipedia is not only for you, but for all the people, you're starting being selfish with your behaviour, can't you realise?

Please see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_March_13#Category:Croatian_language_films to discuss this. --Ed (Edgar181) 18:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Lord" Sekule Drljevic

Why do You think this category is POV? --PaxEquilibrium 20:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

The article was written by a "patriot" to the like of those that frequently squirt around Ante Pavelić and Milan Nedić. Anyway, the mass-scale Chetnik (with Partisan aid subsequently) rebellion in Montenegro was characterized by a mass slaughter. Although under hard pressure from Rome and Berlin, Drljevic did authorize the execution each & every single Chetnik/Partisan freedom fighter. In addition to that, an investigation was held (known as "Sekule's purge") in which thousands of relatives/friends, those related in any kind to the Chetniks (children, women, you name it) were wiped out. Plus, we could attribute the fact that there's no Jew today in Montenegro and the great suffers of the Roms to Sekule, too. Although this is all too far controversial (as the figure was probably the very most "clean" of all of the Nazis' puppets); the fact that he remained loyal to the Axis forces to the very end does not contribute to his favor.
The Category was controversial, so they decided to put in it people who were convicted War Criminals, regardless if they are or not. Considering that he was sentenced by the Partisans, and that that was adopted by the World as legitimate, he does fall under that category. The controversy of Partisans' trials is known to me too. --PaxEquilibrium 20:57, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Map: I was not aware that it was Mandic's creation, but neither did I note that Jevrem made it before. I noted that the whole political pamphlet was made by Jevrem's DANU, yeah. --PaxEquilibrium 00:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Repubbliche Marinare of Italy

I've proposed merging both Category:Maritime republics and Repubbliche Marinare into Category:Maritime Republics Αργυριου (talk) 19:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please stop destroying my contribution.

Please stop "destorying" my wikipage by inserting your own personal opinions on a subject you have no clue about.

I was born in raised in Kukar and you have no right to "deface" my page with your "opinions".

Hands Off!

KUKAR


[edit] Bulend Biščević

Hi, Thewanderer. I am the person who pproposed for deletion the article about Bulend Biščević. First of all I disagree with the fact that being an international player means the player is notable. However, I agree that if a player has played in a fully proffessional league then he is, according to WP:BIO. With good will, I am asking you, since I dont' want to have an edit war, is any of croatioan or bosnian leagues fully proffessional? At least I doubt about bosnian, since it is at the same level with cypriot which is not fully proffessional. Can you give me please some resources? User:KRBN 17:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Leave the fact that he played for the best Croatian League. The question is if Croatian League is really a fully professional or not. If Hajduk is the best in a non-FULLY proffessional league then I don't suppose it is important for notability User:KRBN 00:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MNE

Is it just an accident, or You have an interest in my grandfatherland? :)) You edit it from time to time.

Or is it just a regular coincidence? ;)

Happy Easter!!! --PaxEquilibrium 16:31, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought it's more of like You were over 'ere or have some connection to CG... --PaxEquilibrium 22:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ante Starčević

Thank you for your help with the Ante Starčević page; I couldn't believe the state of that article when I saw it, but obviously someone's been working very hard to keep it stained. I don't mind negotiating with people, but I can tell that the main culprit behind the reverts is a Croat-hater, judging by his other "contributions", many against Croatia. I was wondering though if you knew of a mediator or a good administrator that could help negotiate with the page. I am more than willing; but I will not stand by and just watch Starčević's page being bloated with the most obscene repetatives and massive quotations when other pages on convicted war criminals pale in comparison. Thanks for reading. --Jesuislafete 05:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Croatian Encyclopedia

Note that there are three encyclopedias by the name of "Croatian encyclopedia": the first issued by Josip Zach and Ivan Menzin (2 vols, Osijek, 1887), the second issued by Mate Ujević in Zagreb (5 vols, 1938-1945), and the third one described in the article above. So we'll probably need a disambiguation page for the term. --El Cazangero 20:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thompson

Sorry if I did anythin' wrong.

I just reverted removal. --PaxEquilibrium 22:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please!

The Ante Starcevic article is in the GA Review status! By editing it you are passing bad info to the reviewers and it is considered as a vandalism! If you continue - I will be forced to report it as an incident and seek gor the article protection!

--BarryMar 15:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't allow yourself to be provoked to do something stupid.
That's what they want you to.
Once they declare you as vandal, it'll be hard to wipe that etiquette off. Kubura 09:07, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Answer

is at the template talk.--Methodius 22:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flag of Montenegro

Why is there problem over this? I changed the obviously incorrect flag to a more correct version. The tricolor was banned by the Axis in Montenegro, and its usage was strictly banned. The *alaj-barjak* Montenegrin War Stag (which is the current Flag of the Republic of Montenegro) was adopted as the official state flag of this so-called "Kingdom of Montenegro". In the "Voice of Montenegrins" (Glas Crnogoraca) published it to the people of Montenegro under the article headed "New Flag of Montenegro": "With this occasion the High Commissioner notified the courageous officers that the Flag of Montenegro will be the War Stag of King Nicholas". --PaxEquilibrium 06:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The link you presented seems to be down.
If true, it was probably the inter-period before they were all replaced with Nicholas' war flag. Considering that two Montenegrins were executed in the square of Cetinje for putting that flag as a mark of protest of the local fascistoid puppet regime on their homes. I think that the fact that Sekula's regime brought the deaths of almost 10,000 Montenegrins, and that using that flag (as a symbol of a free Montenegro, the stag of the anti-fascist Chetnik-Partisan 1941 rebellion) would be thus not only highly improper, but an insult to the victims of the Holocaust.
The current Montenegrin flag is no new design. In 2004 the Montenegrin Parliament adopted a slightly altered flag - the only difference being that the yellow color is now gold - and practically nothing more.
Where did I say that the current flag is same to that of the fascist puppet-state? It's true, it's almost identical - but it would be erratic not to recognize what it was in the actual beginning. I myself (or better, my family) possess(es) one Battle Stag of HRH Nicholas, earned in fighting the Ottoman Turks in ehem, "epic battles" (lol), so I would be insane if I had any dislike of the flag.
I think that this distrust actually comes from a tone of morality, justice and AFAIK - neutrality. I was and have forever remained the fierce opposer of irredentist ideologies promoted by Slobodan Milošević, Radovan Karadžić and their legacy - and I think that it in the end unfolds to a very sensible thing. --PaxEquilibrium 19:21, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Notability of Union of Croatian Homeland War Volunteers Association

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[edit] Notability of Croatian Association of Prisoners in Serbian Concentration Camps

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[edit] Re: Speedy delete abuse

What was the title of that other, speedily-deleted article? Just type the whole title even if it is a dead link now, so that I can check the deletion history. --Joy [shallot] 16:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, never mind, I see it above. --Joy [shallot] 16:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, about that then. I am not familiar with ZUHDDR from the press. I know of UHDDR, is this their parent organization? That should be spelled out. Also, it would make sense to have an article for HVIDRA first, because that's a very well known organization. Also, an article for the Koordinacija udruga or whatever it's called, simply on the basis that they are the parent organization and nowadays a major stockholder union (so they're not just "emotionally" notable). --Joy [shallot] 16:09, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Asaf Duraković

Re: your reference in the above article to "McGill University in Hamilton", please note that McGill University is in Montreal; the university in Hamilton, Ontario is called McMaster. Could you please clarify which university you mean and correct the article? Thanks. Bearcat 04:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned non-free image (Image:CanCroFolkloreFestival.PNG)

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[edit] Orphaned non-free image (Image:NK Troglav Crest.JPG)

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[edit] Orphaned non-free image (Image:NK Brotnjo.jpg)

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[edit] Orphaned non-free image (Image:Etnofest.gif)

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[edit] Non-free use disputed for Image:Bilo jednom u Hrvatskoj.jpg

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[edit] Non-free use disputed for Image:KK Split.jpg

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[edit] Non-free use disputed for Image:NK Zagreb Logo.jpg

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[edit] Non-free use disputed for Image:NK Zadar Logo.jpg

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[edit] Non-free use disputed for Image:NK Osijek's Logo.jpg

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[edit] Non-free use disputed for Image:NK Kamen Ingrad's Logo.jpg

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[edit] Debate on the correct adjective for Kosovo

Hi! Based on your interest in the Balkans, you may be interested in the currently ongoing debate on whether we should be using Kosovo or Kosovar/Kosovan as the adjective for Kosovo. —Nightstallion 15:20, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mostar

I think you should be interested in this.

A user is saying Mostar isn't majority croat even though there are sources to prove it. That user is Visca el barca and he is a sockpuppet. That user has been banned 7 time because of his nationalsit propaganda views. visit category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Hahahihihoho

There were 3 source which are now deleted by Visca el barca. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.220.2.195 (talk) 15:18, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned non-free media (Image:NK Pula Logo.gif)

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[edit] Vandalism on Jajce

user:Visca el barca has deleted respected User:DIREKTOR edits. He deleted referenced information on Jajce relating to the 2004 census. He left a message saying "clean bullshit". I think this is not approriate.

user:Visca el barca has been warned for attacking another user. this

Hopefully you can revert the vandalism. I would of asked User:DIREKTOR but on his user page it says he is taking a break to study for exams. Franjo r 02:58, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

He deleted it again. He doesn't want to listen. Franjo r 15:54, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian Official in Croatia

As per your deletion of the cyrillic spelling on the article Kukar read Article 12 of Ustav Republike Hrvatske (2001) it reads in Croatian: Članak 12.

U Republici Hrvatskoj u službenoj je uporabi hrvatski jezik i latinično pismo.

U pojedinim lokalnim jedinicama uz hrvatski jezik i latinično pismo u službenu se uporabu može uvesti i drugi jezik te ćirilično ili koje drugo pismo pod uvjetima propisanima zakonom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kukar (talk • contribs) 14:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian Lies About Jasenovac

At Jasenovac concentration camp, Serb editors have conveniently "avoided" reporting the following figure from the United States Holocaust Museum about Serb victims of Holocaust: "The most reliable figures place the number of Serbs killed by the Ustaša between 330,000 and 390,000, with 45,000 to 52,000 Serbs murdered in Jasenovac." Serb editors have deleted this part from the article because it's more convenient to believe in a myth of 700,000 Serbs dead even though the United States Holocaust museum has stated that the most reliable figures place the number of Serbs killed in Jasenovac to 45,000-52,000. Source http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/jasenovac/frameset.html?L= .

One more thing: The Bosniak Institute in Zürich published in 1998 a list of all registered victims of the two concentration camps on the basis of data drawn from the Office for Statistics in Belgrade. This gives a figure of 59,188 known deaths at Jasenovac and Stara Gradiška, of which 33,944 were Serbs.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bosniak (talk • contribs) 20:53, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Redirect of Persumable Croatian and Bosnian percentage in bosnian municipalities 2005

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[edit] some thoughts

Its good that you contribute by making new articles like Rock za Hrvatsku or Croatian pop and rock scene but in some cases you just copy already existing stuff which i think is not right and may be misunderstood by someone as content forking. Also there are some factual errors, Osmi Putnik were formed in 1985, they are not from the 1970s and so on. I think that article (cropoprock) will need some working, so I'll try to contribute as much as I can. There are so many artists that need to be mentioned Kico Slabinac, the festival scene Splitski festival, Opatija, Dubrovacki trubaduri and all that. Also the chronological order is definetly not a good idea for this particular article as currently there is no enough information to fill every subsection properly (for example your 1970s subsection contains only one sentence). I'll try to do something, i hope for a constructive cooperation --Dzole 17:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I also suggest renaming the article to Croatian popular music as some of the artists like Arsen Dedic for instance are not just "pop", nor rock.--Dzole 19:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stedimlija

Ante Pavelic, quote, 5 June 1942, conversation with Gregory Ivanovic Maksimov, the Russian exile to-be Head of the Croatian Orthodox Church:

Eh! Here they are! I forgot to say this sir, mister Archbishop. This is Savic Markovic Stedimlija, journalist, the first feather of Zagreb. He will be your right hand. And this is Andrija Artukovic, minister of internal affairs. Artukovic was highly unwilling to assign to you Stedimlija, that was his best man in the Section for Propaganda. Only on my insisting he complied to hand him over to you. I hope you will cooperate with him well. You will handle ecclesiastic, religious affairs, finding priests, and all factual matters, especially propaganda, will be handled by Stedimlija... --PaxEquilibrium 15:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:Hajduk's_Logo.gif

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[edit] Nedic Serbia

Sorry for reverting but last table has been with problems because of words military occupation. Now when I have added neutral, serbian source it will be very hard to delete that it has been state. Rjecina) 16:29, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just to let you know...

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussioni_utente:Giovanni_Giove/personale

AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 23:15, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sekula & Anthem

Otkada je Badnje Veče
Našu vjeru očistilo,
Među nama, seljacima,
Nevjernika nije bilo.

This is celebration of what the Muslim world today (for instance Bosniacs in our lands) consider genocide. It celebrates the cleansing of Muslims from Montenegro on one particular moment that occurred in the 18th century (na Badnje Veče 1702), celebrating the "purification" (Orthodox-pure probably) of the faith, with no infidels. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

By the way, please don't make such blatant accusations for vandalism, refer to WP:VAND.
Also why do you think that Sekula's atrocities are extremely (!) controversial? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:08, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Well on Wikipedia there already is lengthy reference to the Muslim cleansing celebration in the The Mountain Wreath article - so yeah, of course I'll have nothing against you adding it on the Petar II Petrovic Njegos article. AFAIK I endorse adding at least some reference to it. Just keep please two things on your mind. One :that is that in the 18th century and around them the national-romantic feelings against Islam as well as the blatant fact that such thoughts have long disappeared by the 1940s and the age of Sekula Drljevic (when THEN it was immoral too like today), which depicts that solely because of his personal nationalist beliefs (when in the meantime already voices against crimes against Muslims that occurred emerged). And Two: Petar just depicts an occasion, during which one Montenegrin Duke speaks how he expelled the Turks (a term even separated from the poturicas), defeated them and destroyed a part of their property - hardly a celebration of the event directly from Njegos. On the other hand Sekula without doubt depicts celebration of the cleansing of infidels.
Well the Yugoslav State Commission affirmed that in early 1945, tried him for collaboration and treason (in Montenegro), for propaganda (in the anti-Allied Frontiersmen paper) and for crimes (in Sajmiste). If you desire, I believe I can find a direct citation, as well as perhaps scan the indictment (with verdict) against Sekule?
He wasn't really a totally marginal person, but yes, he was a marginal person in the WWII perpetrated atrocities. He didn't befriend simply, he worked at the Sajmiste concentration camp between 1941 and 1944. After it was closed, he moved to Zagreb because of the advancing Allies. His attempt hardly failed, because even though lasting for a day, the Government survived as the Chetniks made compromise with the Italians and Blazo Djukanovic (day later after the Chetniks expelled him) became Prime Minister. Although his hands are not totally clean on the retreating and the Chetniks matter, I do not aim at that at all - the issue is that he was an accomplice in the Holocaust at the Sajmiste concentration camp from 1941 to 1944 and that he in 1944 to 1945 organized removals of families, including tens of thousands of people from Montenegro, guaranteeing protection across NDH territory. The families were those related to the Chetniks in any way who feared the incoming and strongly victorious Partisans. However, they were all shipped to the Jasenovac and Stara Gradiska concentration camps. Today some (nationalist, pro-Axis WWII) modern voices are trying to speak good words about Sekule claiming that he didn't know what was going to happen, but they base this on absolutely nothing - there is no such record. According to the texts issued by the Communists during Yugoslavia, he was even an instrument (deal) with the Ustashas to find "souls" for extermination (overstretched, but still).
No of course, I didn't think that. Cheers. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:EuropeanPatentConvention2008.PNG

Hi! Thanks for the nice map. Just a small (tiny, really) note, after zooming on Liechtenstein, it seems this country is in grey, while it should be in green. Cheers. --Edcolins (talk) 19:18, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian flag

I have look internet about Serbian flag and this are my findings: On Serbian wiki Nedic' Serbia flag is is possible to see on this place . Latter they have deleted comments about flag but .... I have seen that flag on 2 sites. If we look in not so distant future best site for Serbian flags it will be this, but I think that you know that. This site is having interesting grb (croato-serbian) of Nedic Serbia. Cheers. --Rjecina (talk) 03:00, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Other flag I have seen only on 1 site so this shown before must be right.--Rjecina (talk) 04:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Affirmable. That is correct. That was the fascist flag of Nedic's "Salvation" government, depicting its (with no other details) Coat of Arms in the middle. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 10:13, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Country data Yugoslavia

Hi! I really have nothing to do with the country data templates, I just mass-protected all of them due to the risk of vandalism. You question would be better asked over at the relevant WikiProject. east.718 at 01:15, December 31, 2007


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[edit] Tommy Križanović

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[edit] Your comments are totally unacceptible.

You cannot honestly believe that my reverting vandalism is justification for you to make inappropriate comments. If you continue to do so, I have no choice but to conclude that you are not interested in WP:AGF, WP:CONS, or anything of the sort, and I will report you to the ANI for picking up where the IP-vandal left off. --Cheeser1 (talk) 03:22, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Go ahead and report. I'd love to see you lose. Thewanderer, I will contact some other Croatian Wikipedia users to try to get them to help with the page. This ridiculousness has gone on long enough. --Jesuislafete (talk) 06:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DYK notice

Updated DYK query On 10 February 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Lepoglava prison, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Congratulations! Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


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[edit] Independent State of Croatia

I have edited this article. Because my english s not very good can you please edit my english language mistakes in part of article background (which is new). --Rjecina (talk) 02:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Serbia (1941-1944) article

You have claimed that Serbia was a state from 1941 to 1944 based on the fact that it had its own currency, post, etc. Evidence from a number of reputable sources which I have provided indicate that it was not a state, but a military regime of Nazi Germany. the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia had currency and armed forces, but was not a state, Reichskommissariat Norwegen (Norway) had a Norwegian government but was not a state, German governors administered it. It appears obvious that Nedic wanted the territory to be recogonized as a Serbian state, but there is no evidence that Hitler agreed. This article is very controversial, if you have clear evidence to suggest it was a state please present it, but keep in mind that Bohemia and Moravia is an example of a German-occupied region that had a currency, which was not a state.--R-41 (talk) 03:40, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I do clearly understand that Nedic definately intended it to be a state which I agree should be clear in the article. I think one thing has to be made clear as it is confusing for a number of people, is that Italy was the Axis power which made the most puppet states - the Independent State of Croatia, the Kingdom of Montenegro, and the Hellenic State (Greece). Hitler did not even want to take on a Balkan campaign, he was more interested in a war against the Soviet Union. Nor did Hitler wish to create any Slavic puppet state, he deemed all Slavic people to be racially inferior, it was Mussolini who saw value in a Balkan campaign and Balkan puppet states to expand his Italian Empire. Mussolini convinced Hitler to pursue a Balkan campaign to save the Italian campaign in Greece. Germany initially only created two puppet states, Vichy France and Slovakia, though later made puppet states in Hungary and Italy as they gave up to the Allies. All the rest of occupied territories had German leadership with local civil governments in a Reichskommissariat for instance, a Nazi party official would run the territory, in the example of the Military Administration in Belgium and North France a military commander was the official governor of the territory. The French Franc was still in circulation in northern France. Also in France, much of the territory was not intended for immediate German annexation and Vichy France laid claim to the area. It seems that these military administrations were used in areas which needed subduing. Northern France had a strong underground resistance movement and Serbia was politically unstable and had strong resistance movements, Tito's Partisans controlled a section of Serbia for a long period of time in what was known as the "Republic of Uzice" I believe. Also the Germans may not have been willing to give Nedic's government independence due to the German government's support of the German population in Banat, which had autonomy from Nedic's regime. It is possible that the German government was unsure of what to do with Banat as well as the continuing resistance, that they still legally ran the territory as a military administration. But you are correct that Nedic did want Serbia to be a state, and in many ways it behaved like one. But we must remember that the Germans were firmly in charge, and their rule over the region had far more power than that of Nedic.--R-41 (talk) 19:41, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I think the matter of the Partisans having stronger holds in Bosnia and Croatia than in Serbia was largely to do with the geographical terrain, there were mountains and caves which Partisans could hide in in Bosnia and Croatia, as for Serbia, I am unsure of its geographical layout, but Croatia and Bosnia had tactical advantages for the Partisans. I certainly would note that the Partisan's would have an easier time winning in the terrains of Bosnia and Croatia than in flat areas of Serbia, which were home to the Chetniks who violently opposed the Partisans.--R-41 (talk) 02:30, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Order of Crown of Zvonimir.jpg

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[edit] Edit for Serbs in Canada

In your edit note you mentioned that the new census results were recently released in Canada. I've been trying to update the info oin Demographics of Toronto page. If you could inform me as to where I could find detailed census results, I'd appreciate it. The page is completely lacking in data on the significant South Slavic community. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gkmx (talk • contribs) 15:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks.Gkmx (talk) 16:53, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CfD nomination of Category:Serbian collaborators

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[edit] Oj Hrvatska Mati

Lyrics has been published on site with green lights from this site. Because of copyright lyrics are not allowed on wikipedia. This has been decided with "Ustaša" song which is having copyright from 1943 (?). If song is older of 70 years lyrics are allowed but in other situations ...--Rjecina (talk) 12:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


Col. Marko Mesic

I do not understand your insisting on replacing my new sourced biography of Marko Mesic with old unverified stories based on unverified internet articles.

Version I am trying to publish is based on book http://www.naklada-ljevak.hr/knjiga/show/id/2079 published by the Croatian State Archives and numerous aritcles in mainstream Croatian press. If you wish I can scan relevant pages and publish it here?

Version you are trying to push is based on unverified internet articles.

Yes it is unbelievable but true fact that Mesic lived to old age ....... see http://www.gradskagroblja.hr/Trazilica/MapPreview.aspx?CemeteryID=1&Field=50&DeptID=1&PersonID=227619.

If you have to ...... you can continue to revert to your unverified version based on unverified rumours published on the net as 'sources'.

Everybody in Croatia and further uses verified Croatian State Archives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.74.185 (talk) 09:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Operation Storm

I have lost patience with discussion on talk page. Discussion has started because of SPA account which has wanted that Veritas become source for article and now we are having discussion which source are good for this article. On talk page I have declared that today is last day of my discussions and that somebody will take my place. I am asking you and 1 another editor.--Rjecina (talk) 12:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template question

I would like to move Croatian diaspora articles from {{Croats}} and create separate {{Croatian diaspora}} template similar to {{Polish diaspora}} template, to group all Croats living abroad. What do you think? It seems to me it is a standard to group similar ethnic group articles by the navigation box at the bottom. - Darwinek (talk) 13:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cro

Actually, it was, but it in truth didn't have a single man on Montenegrin soil or controlled any Montenegrin Orthodox religious institution, so I'm not sure whether it counts. Does it?

The Montenegrin National Council published all official data in Old-style Croatian (preferred by the Ustashas). All the other informal publishing too, an example is the "Tko su Srbi?" racist philosophical work. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The first (State Council), not the latter (in occupied Montenegro in effect there was no government). --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 00:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)