Talk:Theory of mind

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[edit] Connection to Dystopia

The article on Dystopia is linked at the bottom of this one, but these two topics have very little, if anything, in common. Should the link be removed, perhaps? DiabloMan8890 20:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

ok, i dont know if anyone will know but im currently doing some coursework and was wondering if anyone could answer a question for me, based on the mind?

Can someone explain what the cartoon image is supposed to mean? I don't see how it is related to Theory of Mind. -- Kimiko 12:04, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Looks like a brain trying to understand how another brain works. Apokrif 11:32, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] ToM and schizophrenia

I read that certain cognitive deficits, including lack of ToM, are common to PDDs and schizophrenia. Apokrif 11:18, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Autism and Theory of Mind

Does anyone know a reference for the assertion in the article that: "autistic people who develop a workable theory of mind tend to be aware not only that other people have different knowledge from themselves but also that other people have a different way of thinking." 24.26.98.245 (talk)

The sentence at the end of the autism section seems to be erroneous opinion.: "These researchers’ findings are important to understanding the social disorder, because they suggest that autism’s abnormalities, which may initially appear to be unrelated to theory of mind, such as communication challenges, in fact result from theory of mind deficits." Even if all autistic individuals had testable theory of mind deficiencies, would one say that autism was caused by theory of mind deficiencies, or just that the two were correlated. I will change "result from" to be "correlated to" unless someone has objections or references. 24.26.98.245 (talk) 07:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)BP

Actually, does that sentence convey anything additional? It is basically restating that the two might be related, and saying its important, but this doesnt add anything scientific/factual.... 24.26.98.245 (talk) 07:49, 18 December 2007 (UTC)BP

[edit] Needs work

This article needs work. In particular, it says nothing about 'theory of mind' as a vast area in philosophy - perhaps it shouldn't be covered here at all, so for now I've added a disambig link at the start. Ben Finn 21:46, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

We should be content with that disambig link. In philosophy, "theory of mind" is just a description of a wide and general area of interest. In psychology, "theory of mind" is a proper name for a particular body of literature. Nevertheless, this article does indeed need work. It especially needs more information about criticisms of the theory (of which there are plenty). KSchutte 18:34, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
KSchutte, do you mind providing those links? I found this article several months ago, while reading about animal intelligence, and found it to be a very intriguing subject. In the process, I actually became friends with an autistic woman who seems to lack this theory of mind, yet is very aware of her lack thereof. Particularly of interest to me is the recent study about the neurons in the brain that are allegedly devoted to developing theory of mind in individuals. Raphael 19:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to divide the page up into subcategories, and I removed an irrelevant link to a PNAS paper which talks about Self, not Theory of Mind. I'm sure more work could be done to expand and reference each subcategory. AFdeCH 00:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A Functional Model of the Mind

Subjations

This functional model of the mind is a metaphysical philosophy based on subjects and relations. Since anything can be a subject, it is the highest of all possible systems. (There is a little more information in this description than is in the diagram. Not everything can be drawn.)
Subject - a cross-utilized unit of a relation
Relation - more than one subject combined together
Extrinsic Subject - subject given to a relation
Intrinsic Subject - subject contained in a relation
Right - if a subject is within an extrinsic subject
Wrong - if a subject is not within an extrinsic subject
Possession - if an intrinsic subject is within a subject
Good - what increases a relation
Bad - what hinders or decreases a relation
Happiness - occurs if subjects combine and form a relation. There are five different types of happiness. In order to include non-social relations in these definitions, the generic term combination is used symbolized with the letter 'C'.
1stC - occurs when a relation is formed. Here the extrinsic subject is created.
2ndC - occurs when subjects are combined to an existing relation. Here the extrinsic subject already exists.
3rdC - occurs as the back and forth dynamics between relations. Here more than one extrinsic subject is involved.
Leverage - resembles a lever, the relative lowering of a subject in a relation causes the relative increase of the other related subjects. This also is known as apathetic happiness. Subjects on opposite sides of the lever are apathetic to each other. An examples of this is teasing.
Contentment - is a relative position a subject has in a relationship. This position is what we mean when we say we are "happy". Here the word "content" can be used interchangibly.
Unhappiness is, of course, the converse but with separation instead of combination. Hate is excessive apathy.
Nervousness - anticipation of a combination
Worry - anticipation of a separation
Shyness - excessive Nervousness
Fear - excessive Worry
Pride - above Contentment
Shame - below Contentment
Dignity - empathetic Pride
Arrogance - excessive Dignity
Honor - the action toward Dignity
Jealousy - apathetic Pride
Envy - the action toward Jealousy
Modesty - empathetic Shame
Humility - the action toward Modesty
Pity - apathetic Shame
Disgust - the action toward Pity
Expectation - future Contentment
Standard - past Contentment
Surprise - empathetically or apathetically above Standard or Expectation
Embarrassment - empathetically below Standard or Expectation
Disappointment - apathetically below Standard or Expectation
Elation - excessive Surprise
Sadness - excessive Disappointment or Embarrassment
The name of this system is Subjations which is a blend of words subjects and relations. What is especially interesting is that even though it is a system of emotions it also conforms with evolution. After all, every living thing has relatives. Also, although emotions have no substance they do invoke physical changes in the body. This leads to the question, is this science or not? One more thing I'd like to add is something I call the Base Rule. The Base Rule states that "Related subjects do not combine for the same reason that unrelated subjects do not separate". That doesn't sound like much but it is a significant factor with morality. I welcome any feedback. I'm the author. My name is John Huber and my email is jhn_hbr@yahoo.com

[edit] Crows know what other Crows know

I guess this should be added to the Non-Human Theory of Mind section:

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/mg19426091.700-the-scheming-minds-of-crows.html

Sry, for not having a better link. 13 Sept 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.124.3.108 (talk) 13:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


= The reference to "Premack, D. G. & Woodruff, G. (1978). Does the chimpanzee have a theory of mind? Behavioral and Brain Sciences, 1, 515-526." is made several times in the references

[edit] Theory of 'nasty' minds

Somebody needs to post up about this.

I dont know enough about it.

194.83.93.11 (talk) 12:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Neil

[edit] Theory of Mind - General Comment

The comments about functionalism and mind brain identity at the beginning of the page have very little specifically to do with theory of mind (maybe the author thought that 'theory of mind' was a synonym for 'philosophy of mind'?) and should be dropped. [I have now removed this section]

The section on 'philosophical roots' conflates 'theory theory' with 'folk psychology' whilst ignoring genuine philosophical parallels between 'theory theory' and proposed philosophical solutions to the 'problem of other minds' such as the 'argument from analogy' (see e.g. Mill 1889.)

This section also argues that, unlike 'theory theory' "simulation theory suggests ToM is not, at its core, theoretical." However this conception of simulation theory as non theoretical has been vigorously contested in recent literature. e.g.

"The presupposition both theories [TT and ST] share is that mind reading is primarily a ‘spectatorial process' of explanation and prediction. On this way of thinking self and other stand in relation to each other as observer and observed…This view of intersubjective relations seems distorted."

(Thompson, E. (2001) Empathy and Consciousness in Thompson, E. (Ed) Between Ourselves, Imprint Academic, 2001. p.12)

Paul