Talk:The World Ends with You

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[edit] Adding a reference to Sh15uya?

We might want to add a reference to Sh15uya as a possible inspiration...I only mention this because I found this article through the Japanese Wiki. --Egocentrism04 19:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

It isn't "my" site anymore, but in compliance with a majority of the members, as well as staff, they APPROVED the removal of the site until stated otherwise.

[edit] Jupiter

It's made very clear in the game that it's co-developed by Jupiter, but this isn't mentioned anywhere on the page. That should really be added. --Impossible 11:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hanekoma

Just need to clear this up: Hanekoma is in fact one of the main characters, while you don't control him directly (much like Rhyme), he's in that roster so to speak. Check the main webpage for confirmation, dupes.

And you needed to be an asshole about it?—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 00:05, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not %100 sure, but I'd have to disagree with that, along with others. First of all, check out the japanese wikipedia page:

ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/すばらしきこのせかい

If you use a translator, it doesn't show him on the main characters. It shows him on other characters instead. These are japanese people who updated that page, and they're more familiar with the game, unlike we are. Next of all, I've checked out the main page. It shows him along with the other characters. I'm not sure about this either, but it could read "Good Characters" not "Main Characters". As in Hanekoma being on the "good" side. It may be misleading, but it sure isn't comfirmination. In other words, he isn't on the boxart, with the other characters too. Staticz 22:25, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Riku ain't on the box-art of KHII, doesn't show til the end of the game, we we still know he's a main character. *fixed* I'm going with given information, not crappy google translators or speculation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.188.24.125 (talk • contribs)

That may be true but Riku isn't a main character. Besides, what's your reliable source for this info? Axem Titanium 02:27, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Uhm...lemme see, umm, oh yeah, thats right, THE MAIN FUCKING WEBSITE. >.>

WP:CIVIL, WP:SIG—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 17:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Thats nice. Stop fucking editing it out.

WP:CIVIL, WP:SIG—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 00:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Look, I'm not kidding around here. I'm trying to avoid this dispute, and I have pointed out at the frickin evidence that proves my side, so if you keep insisting on this crap I WILL report you.

You realize you've already violated WP:3RR? (...again) I guess you were civil enough, but still WP:SIG. You know, if you don't understand these policies, you can click the links I'm giving you. I'm not doing it because blue text is purdier.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 02:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

And? That gives you the right to do whatever you want?

No, but I can sure tell you to follow rules. WP:CIVIL, WP:SIG. Jesus all you have to do to sign is type ~~~~. Not too difficult. And in case you didn't notice I stopped reverting you. (Once it's past 3RR I find it's easier to let you have your bottle for now then revert you when you lose interest.)—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 06:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Lose interest? Unlikely. :3 70.188.24.125 02:27, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

You don't have a user account, so don't make up a name and use it in your signature.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 18:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Dude, holy shit. Please stop vandalizing. >.> 70.188.24.125 06:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

All right, time out. Question: Who here actually has played the game? All the way through? And is fluent in Japanese? I'm in favor of Hanekoma not being a main character but rather a Supporting Character along with Joshua, unlike what the official website has. I suspect that the official simplified the character sections. I will make a full argument about the characters' status in a week or two, after I finish the game. -Atashi 03:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Then keep it the way we know it until you finish as you suggest. 70.188.24.125 01:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

All right, I've played through the entire game. I can't go too much into the details without being spoilerific, but you (Neku) partners up with Shiki, Joshua, and Beat in their respective Chapters. Hanekoma is more of a guardian type person who prevents you from killing Shiki, gives Joshua a radar device on his cellphone, and gives hints about the finale of the game in Beat's Chapter. He is not on the same importance level as Neku, Shiki, Joshua, and Beat. Rhyme is an important person to Beat, but she comes into game play even less than Hanekoma and her most important contribution is keeping Beat motivated. She's not on the same importance level as the four main characters, either. I suggest starting a new character topic header, 'Supporting Characters'. -Atashi 07:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death God/Shinigami

IGN Summary: "The God of Death has decided to play a game with this Tokyo native."

Post Mortem Impressions: すばらしきこのせかい: "that states that he is now part of the Death God`s Game, and has 7 days "

Speeple: "bustling streets of Shibuya and finds himself part of the “Death God Game”

GAMEBRINK.com: "Shiki: The “Death God Game” lasts 7 days." "Neku: “Death God Game?” What are you talking about?" "Uzuki: "What? You have a problem with me being a Death God?"

DGemu: "hes in a game called the Death God's Game i believe."

Livejournal: "he'll have to fulfill a set of orders entitled "Death Gods Game"

Siliconera.com: "The Jet Set Radio-like characters, the dark story line about a death god"

Here's the "translations" I was talking about: http://www.gamebrink.com/nintendo-ds/3983-subarashiki-kono-sekai-its-a-wonderful-world-guide-1

It's kind of SPOILER-ish like, so instead of browsing through it all, you can press "CTRL + F" and type "Death God" or "Death God Game" to advoid further spoilers. These are done by a professional translator team who have done a few translations for japanese games before, so you can decide what you think about it. Staticz 03:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

So how much of this is unofficial, fan/webmaster translation? I would not adopt something if it didn't come straight from the game staff or representatives. -Atashi 04:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Where in the world did Shinigami's Game come from? I've never heard of shinigami "come straight from the game staff or representatives" either. Not once officially I've heard 'shinigami', and shinigami isn't even an english word for sakes. Staticz 22:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
ONCE AGAIN. The website calls them shinigami. In rōmaji.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
And shinigami means "death god".
死神 gets put to 'shinigami', 'shinigami' gets put to 'death god'.
Another example: すばらしきこのせかい translates to Subarashiki Kono Sekai, and Subarashiki Kono Sekai is 'It's a Wonderful World'. But Subarashiki Kono Sekai, nor すばらしきこのせかい are english or understandable, so it's quite logical to put 'It's a Wonderful World'.
So why are we using japanese words, if this is an english page? In english, shinigami means NOTHING as it isn't EVEN an english word, or is in the dictionary. Do I have to say it again? Shinigami ISN'T an english word, and it's unformal to put japanese words (or name as wiki says on the shinigami page) on an english page (besides additional tid-bits). I mean, you didn't want "subarashiki kono sekai" as the topic page, but you'd still want "shinigami" as it means nothing in english?
Let's quote here:
"Shinigami is the Japanese name.." -Wikipedia-
And why are we using japanese names here? We don't call Neku "桜庭 音操", or Shiki "美咲 四季".
And we don't call them Neck or Tsuki either. We call them Neku and Shiki, not actually english, but romanized english. As well, they are both official, but being 'official' is like one of the top excuses ever. I mean, did you even know what was on here before (Game of Shinigami)? Where did 'Game of Shinigami' come from? It wasn't official or translated. If it was, it was a very bad translation indeed. And where did "ONCE AGAIN" come from? I believe this is the first time, and you even said, "The website calls them shinigami. In rōmaji.
Does it look like we're using rōmaji here? No we aren't, we're using english. Open your eyes and look at it from a different perspective. Also, I never said I knew japanese, as I don't. Staticz 04:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Using official Japanese terms is fine. It's not as if the Wonderful World website is in pure Japanese. It's littered in English all over. It'd be different if the site only said 死神, but it actually says "Shinigami". It's not like I'm saying "omg we need to say Sakuraba Neku instead of Neku Sakuraba because it's truer to the Japanese *otakugasm*," it's just that "shinigami" is for now the official term.
And you realize romaji _means_ "Romanized Japanese," right?—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 05:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
In addition: We don't call them "Neck" and "Tsuki" because those are plain wrong (they just couldn't tell it was Shiki - シキ vs. ツキ). And by your logic, we should forget that EVERY logo has "It's a Wonderful World" on it and move this page to the literal translation, "This Wonderful World."—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 05:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
It certainly isn't pure japanese, but you said "It'd be different if the site only said 死神"
Am I reading that right? The site literally says 死神, 死神 not only means shinigami, but it also means death god. If you wanted to say death god, you'd put 死神, and if you wanted to say shinigami, you'd also put 死神, so it's like two paths down the same road (death god is the english translation, and shinigami is the japanese translation). I know what you mean when you say the site DOES say shinigami, yet it also means death god. (I had to repeat that once again, as I've got no other way to put it). And does すばらしきこのせかい/subarashiki kono sekai literally mean 'This Wonderful World"? If it is then I'd like some proof or something similar, as I've always thought it meant 'It's a Wonderful World'. And I still feel my questions and references have been ignored... have you checked out the translations on gamebrink yet? You can see that it says Death God Game tons of times right? I don't want an answer like "It's not official, we can't use non-official things". Because even 'official' things can be mis-used. Staticz 20:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Shinigami is for now, the OFFICIAL name, because the game's website uses SHINIGAMI. In English letters. Shinigami. If the English game called it Shinigami, we would call them Shinigami. The fact the the Japanese website explicitly says Shinigami" is no different.
And what makes it "THIS wonderful world" is the "kono". That means "this". If it were just "Subarashiki Sekai" then "It's a Wonderful World" would count as a pure literal translation.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 23:07, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Uhh!; did you read it throughly and fully? I'll copy it again:
"And I still feel my questions and references have been ignored... have you checked out the translations on gamebrink yet? You can see that it says 'Death God Game' tons of times right? I don't want an answer like "It's not official, we can't use non-official things".
Also, I don't exactly count that as actual, reliable proof. I've just researched, and found out:
Romanji: subarashiki sekai
KANJI: 素晴らしき世界
ENGLISH: Wonderful World (Another says "The wonderful world").
(Sourced: Mognet.net)
Neither one says "It's a Wonderful World" as you've stated. I know it isn't reliable either (even if it is by a "Japanese Translation Group") but I don't consider yours as "proof". Staticz 01:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Add "da" (だ) or "desu" (です) to the end. It's not really needed conversationally, but it makes the sentence an affirmative statement.
In any case, "It's a Wonderful World" is not a literal translation of "Subarashiki Kono Sekai," but it's the official one.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 04:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Christ, Staticz, I wish you would learn to indent your posts and not make new lines in random places. Anyway, what is the problem with using what is, for now, the official term? So we have one foreign word. Wow. And why do you keep acting like I don't know shinigami means death god? We've linked to shinigami, and I'm pretty sure at one point there was actually a definition given on this page for shinigami. Why it got removed I don't know.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 04:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Yashiro.PNG

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[edit] Nomura cameo

After reading those threads [1] [2] at Gamefaqs I think we can be fairly sure that Nomura doesn't make a cameo in the game as a Marble Slash player. Any suggestions on how to make the change? Simply erase the Nomura reference from the article or change it to the guys who make actual cameos?

Inversu 19:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Kariyakoki.PNG

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Minamimotosho.PNG

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Hanekoma.PNG

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[edit] Shinigami cont.

It's Shinigami. It's Shinigami in the same way that it's "Beat" and not "Biito," because in normal Japanese ビイト would NEVER be "Beat"; ビート would be. By your arguments, Staticz, we should be using nothing but literal translations as if these official rōmaji don't exist. By that, すばらしきこのせかい should be "This Wonderful World," not "It's a Wonderful World" because "This..." is the literal translation. Shinigami is being treated as a proper term, which are very often not translated, even outside of things like fiction. It's called "pantheon," but no one in the world goes around saying "temple of all gods." We call it "Japan," not "origin of the sun."—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Please don't put words in my mouth. Let's go back to the basics:
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5797/me00008362822bw7.jpg)
The e-mail says:
Reach 104. Time limit 60 minutes. If you do not achieve your goal, you will die. From the Death God.
Now why would it be saying this?:
Reach 104. Time limit 60 minutes. If you do not achieve your goal, you will die. From the Shinigami.

Where would you possibly get shinigami from? Well..

The japanese letter on the screenshot is: 死神 = Death God (English).
It wouldn't be saying 死神 = Shinigami (Romaji).

But why? Why not? A few reasons why:

1) The rest of the text has NOTHING to do with Romaji. It's translated from English, as of the rest of it.
2) Because 'sheenegomee' is how you pronounce it in Japanese,but…
3) 'Shinigami' is how you correctly write it using the latin alphabet.
4) If you were to read it in english, Shinigami would never be said once.
5) If you were to say it in english, nothing along the lines of 'sheenegomee' would come out of your mouth.

Let's imagine Neku says: " 死神!" in the game (which he does..several times)

From English, Neku would be meaning 'Death God!'.
From Japanese, Neku would be meaning 'Death God!'
From Romaji, Neku would be meaning 'Death God!'
No matter how you put it, the meaning is always 'Death God!'.

Now let's look at the word 'Shinigami's Game'. Now what in the world would 'Shinigami's Game' be? It's half Romaji and half English. You'd either have to put it in full English or full Romaji for it to make sense. In English, it would obviously be 'Death God's Game'. But where did the extra apostrohpe and s come from?

If it (Death God Game) were to be in English to Romaji (by your knowledge), it would be 'Shinigami Game'. So where did they come from? Easy. YOU mistakenly put it there. So then you changed 'Shinigami's Game' to 'Shinigami Game'.

Let's pretend 'Game' is 'Gamizou' in Romaji (I don't know what it really is). Because you'd either have to put it in full English or full Romaji for it to make sense, what would 'Death God Game' be in full Romaji? One things certain. It would definitely not be an English translation, and not fit on the Wikipedia page. And whatever that would be in Romaji, what would it be in English? 'Death God Game'.

One more thing: The term 'Shinigami Game' is 100% FANCRAFTED.

But we know that Death God/Shinigami would have to be in Death God Game/Shinigami Game no matter what. Going back to our knowledge…

Death God/Death God Game
Shinigami/Shinigami Gamizou

Calling it 'Shinigami Gamizou' is inappropriate, because it's not English (but would still have an english meaning a.k.a. Death God Game). Calling it 'Shinigami Game' is even more inappropriate, because it's mixing Romaji and English and you'd have to change it completely to either one of those two to be a full translation.

'From the Shinigami.' is made up.
So is 'Shinigami's Game' too.

If you were to translate it, it would clashes it entirely and it would come out of nowhere.

I mean, there's NO WAY you could manage to get:

If you do not achieve your goal, you will die. From the Shinigami.

Not to mention..

http://www.gamebrink.com/nintendo-ds/3983-subarashiki-kono-sekai-its-a-wonderful-world-guide-1 “Where Japanese games learn English.”

Neku and Shiki ARE using 'Death God' and 'Death God Game' more times than you can count. And yes, that’s what they mean in the game. They are NOT saying things like, “We have to go find the shinigami” or “The shinigami is here”.

To meet your arguments:

1) I have seen it on the website. I'm not blind.
2) I agree with you with the 'Beat' thing, but it doesn't relate to the subject.
3) I don't exactly get the other 'temple' and 'origin of the sun' thing, sorry. Really, I don't appreciate it when you try to change the subject.

Now the only point is that it’s on the website. And I’ve got an explanation for that.

In the 死神 (Death Gods) section, there is list of the Death Gods. But one thing is common: they ALL have names in the Latin Alphabet. Instead of writing ‘八代 卯月’ they put ‘Yashiro’. Instead of writing ‘狩谷 拘輝’ they put ‘Kariya’. Same with the other characters. Instead of ‘美咲 四季’ they put ‘Shiki’. Which finally comes down to the point: Instead of writing ‘死神’ they put ‘Shinigami’'.

But why? Why would they do this? I’ve a few points:

1) That’s the only time when you can find their name in the Latin alphabet on the entire site, so it’s reasonable to put them there because..
2) It helps to familiarize with Westernized/English people. If you look at the left side of the page, you can find ‘System’ ‘Characters’ etc.
3) To not confuse the ‘死神’ with other Death Gods or write ‘死神’ two times in a row. Because all of the other profiles have atleast one name consisting of the Latin alphabet, they could either write ‘Shinigami’ or ‘Death God’. But they chose Shinigami because..
4) Their last names (Sakuraba, Misiki, Yashiro, etc) are Japanese. It also helps because people who know Japanese can look at ‘Shinigami’ and relate to 死神, which they know what that means.

Here’s another point.

It was only used to label the two characters. ‘Shinigami’s Game’ and ‘Shinigami Game’ only came from the labeling of the characters. And we know they are both fancrafted and illogical. Put 死神 into ANY translator, and it comes out as Death God NO MATTER WHAT. The same entire concept applies to the game. The game IS out, and it’s proof. Really! We don’t need an English version to understand such basic stuff. If you understand it correctly, it makes perfect sense.

Oh yes, here’s a list of other info. Remember? (Read through it, don't skip it').

IGN Summary: "The God of Death has decided to play a game with this Tokyo native." Post Mortem Impressions: "that states that he is now part of the Death God`s Game, and has 7 days "

Speeple: "bustling streets of Shibuya and finds himself part of the “Death God Game”

GAMEBRINK.com: "Shiki: The “Death God Game” lasts 7 days." "Neku: “Death God Game?” What are you talking about?" "Uzuki: "What? You have a problem with me being a Death God?"

DGemu: "hes in a game called the Death God's Game I believe."

Livejournal: "he'll have to fulfill a set of orders entitled "Death Gods Game"

Siliconera.com: "The Jet Set Radio-like characters, the dark story line about a death god"

1up.com: “from a mysterious red hoodie-wearing guy who's apparently an incarnation of the god of death”

Wikipedia (long ago, before you came along): “An aloof Empath forced to play Death's Game”

Oh, why not this too?

Hdrlying.com review: “The story begins with our hero, Neku, waking up in the middle of Shibuya (a hip district of Tokyo), with a single badge in his hand. He has no idea why he is in Shibuya, except for a single text message on his cell phone that states that he is now part of the Death God`s Game, and has 7 days to complete his given tasks, or else…”

Still haven’t changed your mind yet?
Here's an interview TETSUYA NOMURA, TATSUYA KANDOU (the DIRECTOR of the Kingdom Hearts series), and the planning director of the Final Fantasy series, TAKESHI ARAKAWA.

“Kandou: The God of Death is the one that watches over the game. We've planned out why Neku and the others ended up as participants in the game and why they're trapped in Shibuya.”

“Arakawa: They're all participants in the God of Death's game after all. The character on the right and the one on the skateboard, I see they're both wearing the same hats.”

(I can get the FULL interview if you need)
You'd have to be very foolish to disagree. We can drop the entire dispute if you'd like and change it back to the correct way. If you do agree, I'd appreciate it very much! Also, I've tried my best to punctuate and indent. Staticz 23:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
*sigh* Does it matter so much? We can just wait until a US release... Axem Titanium 23:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

The official site calls theme SHINIGAMI, in English. It's the official terminology. The only argument for "Death God" being official, Staticz, is a bunch of unofficial translations. Wooooow. Riveting argument. Just give me one official, official source that corroborates you, Staticz. Official. As in, first-party. Not a translation by IGN, 1UP, or anyone else. (Interviews can't really count. I mean, they're being interpreted, and an interpreter probably won't realize "shinigami" is some special game term). Because, you see, I've got the official site saying "Shinigami" in romaji. And it's not like they're Japanese people being Japanese people, because the site also uses words and phrases like "IN STORES NOW," "STORY," "CHARACTER," "SYSTEM," "STAFF VOICE," and "INFO" (the latter five are there...they're just written in graffiti that's kind of difficult to decipher), along with OTHER character names ("NEKU," "SHIKI," "BEAT," "JOSHUA"...etc., etc.)—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 19:48, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Lets review,

My points on why it's Death God:

  • The Square Enix interview calls them it.
  • The game calls them that, WITHOUT ANY ERRORS (it doesn't differ the translations one bit, it is really calling them Death God).
  • The term 'Shinigami Game' appeared out of nowhere one day (you don't have any sources where they call it that).
  • You're pretty much calling all my resources 'crappy un-official translations', without explaining why all of them have some sort of name close to 'Death God'.
  • The website is the only source, official or not, it's the only source, and it doesn't explain where 'Shinigami Game' came from.
Your point on Shinigami:
  • The website calls the two-lower ranking members in the hoodies, "Shinigami".
You're twisting the meaning, and making 'Shinigami' into 'Shinigami Game' and also making it seem like every member of the organization is a 'Shinigami'.
Trust me, it would never, EVER call them shinigami. Just for the hell of it,

Someone is making a .ROM of the entire game, with scripted codecs and patches making translations easy. Do you want to take a look at the project? Here you go.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6870/0310071958bz6.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3230/0310071959qv0.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5008/0310072002pl1.jpg <-- Right there, don't miss that.

You can explain that for me as well. Maybe I should go find someone with a rational, logically thinking mind to help me aswell.Staticz 20:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I think his point is that while you point to unofficial translations of the game, translations of interviews, and the original Japanese text, he points to an official document which says "Shinigami" in English letters. While a direct translation of "死神" would be "Death God", it is pronounced "Shinigami". It seems that according to Urutapu's link, the designers have made the creative decision to NOT translate 死神 into English, but rather to transliterate it, perhaps to preserve the Japanese flavor. Axem Titanium 20:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
(Reiterating what Axem said)—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 02:37, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
You failed again to answer my questions. Where did 'Shinigami Game' come from?
The website is calling the two lower-ranking members in the hoodies shinigami.
It's not calling the game 'Shinigami Game', which means it came out of nowhere.
It's also not calling the group 'Shinigamis' either. Where did you get 'Shinigami Game' from? You must explain that.
Axem also said the translation of 死神 is Death God (no mistakes!). Shinigami is JUST how you pronounce it outloud in Japanese and write it in romaji. It's not the actual meaning.
One more problem: If we were to call all of them 'Shinigami' it would mean all of them are 'Death God'. That would mean just ONE, not many. It's a Wonderful World isn't the same as Death Note or Bleach (where fans prefer to use shinigami just because it sounds 'cooler'.)
Seriously, if you're going to just ignore all of my questions, you shouldn't even bother using your time on here. Staticz 04:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
...wait, what? Where did this plural thing come from? In Japanese, the plurality of a noun is almost always implied because there isn't something in Japanese like adding a "s" to the end. "One apple, two apples," but "one shinigami, two shinigami".—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 04:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Excuse me, but some people actually say "Shinigamis" (if they're wrong or not, probalbly are). Also you failed and ignored to answer the questions, please answer them? Staticz 05:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
(un-indent) Even though the meaning of 死神 is "Death God", I said that according to the image, the directors of the game have made the artisitic decision not to use the English translation, and instead, simply call them "Shinigami", using English letters (rather than "Death God"). I'm not sure if this logic extends to calling the game they play as "Shinigami Game", but it would be more logical within the article to not switch between them repeatedly. Also, if it is indeed "Shinigami", the plural of all Japanese loan words is still the same word (e.g. the plural of 'katana' is 'katana' and of 'kunai' is 'kunai'). People who say "Shinigamis" or "katanas" are simply wrong. Axem Titanium 14:10, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Possibly...but

[3]

If you put your cursor over the two members wearing the hoodies, shinigami comes up. It means that they're (the members in the hoodies) are called shinigami. Thats all it is, basically.
It's not calling the survival game "Shinigami Game" nor does it call everyone in the group "shinigami". I mean, there's a reason that "死神" is up there instead of "shinigami".

[4]

If it was truly shinigami, then I think shinigami would be at the top, instead of "死神". Also while researching, if it was meant to be "Shinigami Game", then it would be "Shinigami no Gemu". But we all know it's not "Shinigami no Gemu".
Why didn't they leave it at "Shinigami no Gemu" instead? Because I don't think they did.
If you use a basic translation on the game, it's Death God.
Apostrophe has been calling it an 'interpretation' when it's not.
If it was Shinigami, then that would confuse a LOT of people are playing the game (who are native to Japanese). For some reason, Urutapu had been trying to avoid my question at all costs, and even tried to change the subject.
Axem, another word that came into my mind was 'official'. I already think you know what an 'inference' is, right?
I'm saying I didn't mean to revert the article constantly (thats why I kept asking for it to be on the talk page). I was trying to get Urutapu and Apostrophe onto the talk page (which they've been advoiding).
Also when the game was first annouced, it was called "Death's Game". Staticz 17:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shinigami III

I "advoded" the talk page because you fail to be convinced of any argument (and dump loads of text proving you fail to comprehend it). Why waste my time?

The simple matter is that it's a proper name for a group and not a descriptor, so unofficial translation that assumes the intent of the game's creators, despite indications otherwise, is senseless and is original research. "Abe" means something like "twice rested". That doesn't mean his proper name is "Twice Rested". ' 23:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't need a new section, and Wikipedia states that the talk page should be used for disputes, not short edit summaries. Where does it state that shinigami is the proper name for the group? It doesn't. If you're pointing towards the website, it doesn't say it anywhere either. Currently, Death God Game is already more official than Shinigami Game ever was (even though Shinigami Game was never official to begin with).
And for your information, 安倍 晋三 directly translates to "Shinzo Abe", as 死神 directly translates to "Death god", smart-so. It just proves my point even more.

Staticz 23:40, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

And you're shocked that nobody particularly wants to discuss this with you? You're stubborn and oblivious to the point of denying that Shinigami is a proper name and that Japanese names (or names in general) have meaning past their phonetics.
And a new section was created because I didn't want to scroll past your excessive text dumps every time I want to edit. ' 03:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm not denying that Japanese names have meanings, of course they do. I admit maybe being stubborn, but I don't like it when people say things I'm not saying (i.e. putting words in my mouth). I'll try to be a little more loose if being assertive offends you. Anyway to the point, can you tell me why it's supposedly shinigami (instead of the other way around)? Staticz 04:27, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I've already explained this. It's a proper name. There is no basis for translating it and passing it off as the actual name. Akatsuki is not "Dawn". Metis is not "Cunning". Sora is not "Sky". ' 07:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
But Apostrophe, Sora isn't Sky, because '空' is already the word for Sky. 空 directly translates to "Sky" (the English word), not "Sora" (Japanese word in Latin alphabet), which is why Sora isn't called 空 (his name was already ソラ in scans). ソラ directly translates to something along the lines of Sola/Sora. If it really was Shinigami, why wouldn't Sora be called 空 instead of ソラ?
死 directly translates to Death and 神 directly translates to God. Put them together and they form 死神 which translates Death God, which doesn't seem to be any interpretation and there doesn't seem to be any translation errors.
Right now, all I can see is broken logic.. if you'd like to explain, I'd love to listen Staticz 07:58, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I can follow his logic perfectly. He's saying that some words, even if they have true translations, are not translated for whatever reason. He cited Akatsuki as an example. The character "暁" (pronounced "Akatsuki") has a meaning in Japanese: dawn. However, the translators made the artistic decision to not translate "暁" into "Dawn". Instead, they intentionally used the pronunciation of "暁", "Akatsuki", as the official English name. The same logic seems to apply here. The artistic directors of the game have exercised their artistic license to translate and transliterate their own works whatever way they want, even if it's not a true translation. It appears that they do not want to use a direct translation of "死神". Instead, they want to use the transliteration, "shinigami", as evidenced by the image Urutapu provided. Now, again, I don't know enough about this issue to say if they truly mean to extend "shinigami" to describe the group or the Game, but logic would dictate that they do. At any rate, I feel that it would be more clear to the readers of the article to keep it consistently "shinigami" since there seems to be consensus and logic backing that angle. Axem Titanium 21:39, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I understand the Akatsuki example perfectly, too, but I don't seem to understand the Sora example. Although you can't exactly state that they have decided to transliterate it as a fact, because the website is describing the members in the hoodies, not the group or game (as you've said). In my perspective, it's more evidence that the two members are called "Shinigami", instead of evidence that they've decided to transliterate 死神 into Shinigami and call it "Shinigami Game". If you notice, every other member has a name written in the Latin alphabet, while the other two aren't called "Death God", but Shinigami because Japanese readers don't know what "Death God" means.
So just to restate it, I think it's more evidence that the two members are called "Shinigami", rather that they've decided to transliterate 死神 into Shinigami and call it "Shinigami Game". Opinions? Staticz 22:11, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Why would the group be Death Gods and the members be Shinigami if both are addressed as 死神? And why would writing "SHINIGAMI" in Latin letters help a Japanese reader? If the kanji are already there, why bother writing "SHINIGAMI" to "help" a Japanese reader over "Death God"? Really, it's starting to feel like you're just clutching at straws here.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 23:59, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I'll copy and paste: "every other member has a name written in the Latin alphabet". It's more likely that Japanese viewers will relate to Shinigami rather than Death God. My question is:
Because Shinigami is describing the two members (and only them), how does it also make the game "Shinigami Game" and the entire group "Shinigami"? It simply doesn't. Thinking so is just guessing, but either way you put it, it's always describing the two members. Staticz 00:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
(un-indent) The Sora example isn't quite as good so I didn't pursue it. I believe the other members are given names in the Latin alphabet but those are proper names for the characters. The two grunts are labeled "Shinigami" to represent the rest of the unnamed crowd of them. Again, this may be speculation, but it is no worse than yours. Axem Titanium 00:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Axem, in truth, all of them are absolute speculation, and not one is worse or more official than the other.
Saying that the term also extends to the group and the game is %100 speculation.
Saying that it's there so Japanese readers can relate to it more is %100 speculation.
Saying that it represents the entire group is %100 speculation.
You can never prove any of these, basically.
But saying that it belongs to the two grunts in the hoodies is not speculation.
Wikipedia also says not to include speculation. Am I making a point here or getting through to anyone? Staticz 01:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Calling it the "Death God Game" is also speculation since there are no official documents calling it this, only 3rd party unofficial translations. Of course, we have to call it something or else the article would be a bunch of Japanese characters. The consensus has decided to call it "Shinigami Game" for lack of a better term until the English language release. Axem Titanium 03:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Ahem? "A lack of a better term"?
Did you just forget everything? The text directly translates to Death God (with no notion of a transliteration engaged). What do you mean only 3rd party translations? That's called "cheap lying", Axem.
Hey, lets forget the fact that the official game calls it "Death God Game" and just call it "Shinigami Game" because it sounds cooler? Lets also ignore the fact that "Shinigami Game" came out of nowhere, and just use it until it's released in English
Just when something that you can't explain comes up, you decide to pull this immature crap. I honestly thought you were a better person than that, but I guess I was wrong. Staticz 03:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Wow you are getting annoying. Quit using this "IT'S WHAT'S IN THE GAME!!" crap. The game is in pure Japanese. The game does not use "Shinigami" OR "Death God," it uses 死神. The game does not use "Shinigami Game" OR "Death God Game," it uses 死神のゲーム. Quit trying to use the game of all things to support what English term you want to use. Meanwhile, Axem, Apostrophe and I are supporting "Shinigami" with the next-best source, the game's official website, since it actually has some degree of English that points towards the current official English terms. And what we gleaned from the site is "Shinigami". Now, since there isn't an official term for 死神のゲーム, we're doing the best we can by utilizing the fact that "Shinigami" is the term for 死神.
Meanwhile, you try to support "Death God" with (somehow) the purely Japanese game, interviews that are either translated by unofficial sources or through interpreters, translations by fansites, and a fan translation of the game by a fansite.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I still can't utilize how you think that the title of two members is also the title of an entire group, plus the name of the game, over basic translations without any interpretation errors. But if you want to think that 死神のゲーム means "Shinigami Game" and not "Shinigami no Gemu", go right ahead, but it still resides on a completely illogical basis. Staticz 04:06, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[edit] Requested move

  • The World Ends with You → The World Ends With You — This is the name for the game in North America and Europe (and presumably Australia too since they are usually the same as Europe when it comes to video game names). IAWW is only the Japanese title. — TJ Spyke 00:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Support as the nominator. TJ Spyke 00:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:
  • Just a note, I have not seen a single source say that this game will be released in North America as "The World Ends With You". All current sources specifically refer to Europe. Someone please correct me if they have seen otherwise. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
    • It was announced today in a press release form Square Enix: [5] [6]. TJ Spyke 01:25, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[edit] Shinigami IV

Okies...that was getting a little long, and out of hand, so, Imma restart. Now, before you ladies go back to your absolutely needless bitch-slapping, I slightly spruced up individual Shinigami paragraphs, including a wee bit of information on some of their battle tactics, aside from the obvious ones. Also fixed one or two things that were incorrect, but nothing too major. Now, touch gloves, and come out fightin'! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.188.25.23 (talk) 06:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Gameplay screen.PNG

Image:Gameplay screen.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More Shinigami

I'm pretty sure in Nintendo Power it was "Death's Game" hosted by the "Shinigami orginization" Does that help?Emma Hordika (talk) 21:52, 29 January 2008 (UTC)Emma Hordika

[edit] Just some things that need to be fixed.

First, just saying that today I fleshed out the protagonist's descriptions and made them more formulaic. And I removed that "thug" comment -- seemed too unprofessional. Also, I made a seperate paragraph in the intro for the development. One problem is that we haven't cited our sources for this article -- if anyone could do that, that would be great.

Also, I tried uploading a photo but it didn't work. Someone who knows what they're doing: please fix. :< —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Machinamar (talk • contribs) 13:55, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

Another review score: Official Nintendo Magazine gave the game a score of 88%, maybe that could be added to the table (I don't know how, sorry).Amphy (talk) 00:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gameplay image

We should probably use something else. It's just a bit inaccurate compared to the final version of the game (the boss can't appear on both screens, and the flame graphics are completely different, albeit way cooler). Not that it's a big deal, just a real screenshot might work the slightest bit better.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 05:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey, guys. Problem. The screenshot is fake if you hadn't noticed: You can't get shiki to attack in a direction with no enemies, and that boss can only show up on ONE screen! Change it. For great justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.17.139.90 (talk) 00:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Um, pay attention when you post on the talk page. I brought this up myself. Anyway, like I said, it isn't so much "fake" as it is "prerelease." And if you look closely, Shiki is attacking a smaller crow.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 05:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up

This page needs a clean up. More character info, and an actual storyline section would be nice. Roxyr (talk) 16:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the Storyline

Is it good to reveal this much about the storyline in the Story section? I mean, they seem like spoilers, and the information in there is practically 1/4 to 1/3 of the entire story of the game. Myominane (talk) 03:01, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

If people read spoilers in the story section, it's their own fault. Wikipedia won't censor for those who can't control their curiosity.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Or those who aren't aware that Wikipedia has no spoiler warnings (which generally aren't technically censors) in articles. And Myominane is correct, the story section is only 1/4 complete (there are three chapters in the game - of which only the first is described - plus an extra side-story after that). I'm sure that WikiProject Square Enix will fix that in time. L337 kybldmstr (talk) 09:42, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Whatever happened to the spoiler tags? I nearly accidentally read the ending, coz I skipped to the reviews first. Luckily, I was skim reading to find the appropriate section I wanted to read after that, but still, it would be nice to mark the start and ending of story spoilers. Wolf ODonnell (talk) 12:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
They were deleted after a TFD, which was endorsed in a DRV. The discussion within was wild to say the least, and the entire debate was controversial in more ways than one. L337 kybldmstr (talk) 02:57, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
It just occurred to me that a good solution would be to change the title of the Story section to Plot Synopsis. The latter may refer to just the beginning (as is usual for some commercial websites that sell games), but Plot Synopsis, clearly indicates that the game's entire plot will be expounded upon in the section. I'll make the change myself. Wolf ODonnell (talk) 13:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Characters section

I think we can scrap the parts in the Characters section relating specifically to the plot (i.e. the second paragraph in each subsection). Those bits effectively reiterate excerpts from the Plot Synopsis section, and in any case they'd only need to be there if the whole section was split off into a separate article (which I doubt will happen unless a sequel is released). L337 kybldmstr (talk) 10:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The ending

Neku doesent have to play another game at the end of Beats chapter, in the credits it shows Shiki touching his shoulder, so he must be alive, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.49.14.26 (talk) 20:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the credits play after the "seven days later" screen. As in, it's already been a week since Beat's segment ended.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 4th week?

You know if you watch the ending it's clear that Neku doesn't actually play a 4th game. When he shouts 'what the hell!' about Joshua's messed up duel for Shibuya you can see a few people in the background look at him meaning he must be in the realground. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.43.176 (talk) 08:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

At any rate, it's not made clear whether Neku plays a fourth Reaper's Game. Until a reliable source clarifies this, it shouldn't be covered in the article because of original research issues. L337 kybldmstr (talk) 23:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
The 4th week idea came from an animation after the "What the Hell!!" part stating "7 days later" with Neku, Beat, and Rhyme meeting near that dog statue. Unless if it's possible to use such a animation as a citation, then it shouldn't be used in the article. DiamondDragon talk 01:25, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
And even so, just because Neku meets Beat, Rhyme, and Shiki 7 days later doesn't mean he played through a game. It just seems ridiculous that the story would skip over a week after going into so much detail over the first three unless nothing important happened.
I'd have to disagree with that; note before the "What the Hell!!" sequence that the scene plays out like the ones at each beginning of the week. It leads to believe that Neku went through a 4th game, hence his anger at the absurdity of being forced through more competition when he thought it was the end ("What the Hell!!").
I suppose that the lack of covering this 4th Game was not included because it's pretty much the same routine except with playing with a normal partner and going though everything with not much emotional influence. DiamondDragon talk 23:48, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Another Day" (Joshua)

With regards to the statement that the Joshua with the other Neku is the real one;if Neku takes the group with him through the Shibuya River, the real Joshua appears to be waiting for Mr.H in the Room of Reckoning(He says that himself.)Which would mean the Joshua with Neku should actually be the other JoshuaOathbound (talk) 17:41, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lullaby For You

Is this really the theme song? I haven't heard it much elsewhere except the ending credits. In my opinion, there was probably no theme song intended. DiamondDragon talk 23:50, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Lullaby For You, by Jyongri, is indeed the intended and official theme song for the game. It was used with the ending credits in the original Japanese version of the game. How much less prominent it is in the US/EUR releases, I do not know. -Atashi (talk) 23:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)