Talk:The Tonight Show

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Contents

[edit] Temp file

Anyone know why The Tonight Show/Temp exists? Can it be deleted?

[edit] Screen shots

So screen shots are totally okay (ie legal)? - user:Zanimum

Far from knowing the answer to your question, that's what I deduced from several discussions that have been going on here at Wikipedia. Zoe, for example, has been uploading cover photos (see for example Arnold Schwarzenegger or Julia Roberts) and considers this "fair use". But again, as I already pointed out several times (for instance at Talk:Sharon Tate), it's easy to remove an image again, and I'd prefer anyone doing that to having a lengthy debate.
Generally speaking, I consider photos essential: Every good encyclopaedia has them. Any casual user will be able to make more of an article if they can also see what they are reading about. As far as the screen shot from The Tonight Show is concerned, I found it months ago somewhere on the Internet (don't remember where), saved it, came across it again yesterday and thought it might be a good idea to illustrate the article with it. It does look weird though, especially the bottom right-hand corner. --KF 05:54 22 May 2003 (UTC)
Yes, every encyclopedia has them, but they pay firms for liscensing the images, and they don't focus on entertainment, and wouldn't include that sort of Hollywood-themed images. - user:zanimum
I think -- correct me if I'm wrong -- that what you're saying is:
(1) While commercial encyclopaedias pay for the images they use, Wikipedia doesn't, and this is morally questionable and/or a breach of law. Well, although it has taken me some time to try and understand the fair use policy, I think promotional photos can't be a problem. What it boils down to is free advertising. But again, we don't even have to vote on that: If someone doesn't like a photo (or just its existence here) all they have to do is delete it. All I would ask of them is to state their reason(s).
(2) While commercial encyclopaedias focus on what is traditionally regarded as "high culture", Wikipedia includes trivia, fun, even nonsense. It's awful enough having to read about Songs whose main title appears more than twenty times in the lyrics, but also having trivial images is just too much. To me, however, this is one of Wikipedia's assets. It's nice to be able to read about towels, the London congestion charge (including the "silly" caption for the last photo), Bratwurst, Badfinger or Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? as well as Johannes Brahms or Geoffrey Chaucer. --KF 17:48 22 May 2003 (UTC)

I added some information to the The Tonight Show/Temp page. I didn't use any sources other than my own memory. If someone could help fill out the article, I would appreciate it.
Thanks
JesseG 03:54, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio

On August 24th the copyvio notice was put on the article after an anonymous user added several pages of text from about.com, but the version of the page before that edit doesn't seem to be a copyright violation. I've reverted the page to the version before the anonymous edit (but kept a legitimate addition from after the copyvio). If this is wrong, please revert it back. - MattTM 23:35, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Conan O'Brien As The New Host of The Tonight Show

Under the hosts section I changed Conan O'Brien info from he will take over in 2009 to he will Tenatively take over in 2009 as of right now NBC has made no official announcement that Conan will take over The Tonight Show. Just because Jay Leno says he will doesn't mean it will happen. In fact Johnny Carson had no say in his successor although he wanted David Letterman to take over and in fact David Letterman had a clause in his contract that NBC was to give him the hosting duties of The Tonight Show when Johnny Carson retires or NBC would owe him $1 million dollars, Obviously Warren Littlefield then the President of Programming and John Agoglia then the President of Business Affairs decided that they would rather just pay off Letterman and keep him on the 12:30am slot a decision that both Littlefield and Agoglia would later say they regret doing and of course we all know what happen next Letterman left NBC and went over to CBS and beat Jay Leno in the TV ratings for a year and a half until Leno had Hugh Grant on his show to talk about being arrested with a hooker. Misterrick 23:03, 31 December 2004 (UTC).

Wrong on several counts. The page has already been edited to show that O'Brien has been contractually signed to take over as the show's host in 2009.
Further, Letterman's penalty clause of $1 million was by no means a promise or a guarantee that he would be Johnny Carson's successor as host of "The Tonight Show." You have misidentified Littlefield and Agoglia's position titles. Also, neither John Agoglia, nor least of all Warren Littlefield, have ever gone on record to state that they "regretted" making the decision that made Leno the new "Tonight Show" host.
And finally, despite what Bill Carter of The Late Shift fame would have you believe, Hugh Grant is not responsible for Jay Leno's ratings popularity. (Would you claim that Grant's tryst with Divine Brown explains Letterman's lagging ratings for the past decade as well?) Several changes were made that could explain why "The Tonight Show" began regularly beating "The Late Show with David Letterman." I would also suggest that after Letterman hosted the Emmys, a performance widely regarded as a flop, Letterman's star began to fade. Telestylo 08:01, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Time slot

From the article:

NBC has planned to move back the show from 11:35 P.M. to 12:00 A.M. It may be happen since the fall season of 2006.

Does anybody know if this is true and/or confirmed? Is there proof? Also, I've tried to fix the grammar but I'm not sure I've preserved the meaning (since in its original form, I can't really tell what it's trying to say). Aerion//talk 05:13, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I have removed this until that poster can provide some sort of news or official announcement from NBC otherwise it's just a rumor. Misterrick 19:51, 08 January 2005 (UTC).


[edit] Paragraphs under "Hosts" are disorganized

The text, which serves as the main body of the entry, should be in more or less chronological order, no? It should give a full history, rather than a bunch of factoids randomly cobbled together.

[edit] Ernie Kovacs as host?

Is this legitimate? No history of the Tonight Show lists Kovacs as one of the four canonical hosts of the show, and indeed the 50-year retrospective NBC did last year did not mention him; the only "official" hosts were Steve Allen, Jack Paar, Johnny Carson, and Jay Leno, in that order. As I understand it, Kovacs was a fill-in/guest host; it was never "Tonight Show with Ernie Kovacs." Can any other TV scholars back me up on this? Because if we list Kovacs, we'll have to add the many, many other people who filled in during interregna (or other vacant periods) in the show's hosting job (Letterman, Joan Rivers, Groucho Marx, Don Rickles, Katie Couric, et al.). Also, the visitors to the page will probably wonder why this page lists him as a Tonight Show host and no other credible source available does. Could this be vandalism that slipped into the page that has never been reverted? 69.166.17.41 05:38, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

First of all, I resent my edit being called vandalism. You need to drop your argumentative and accusatory tone, both here and on my talk page. It's inappropriate. Secondly, my television information comes from the IMDb, and when you look here you will see him listed as the Monday and Tuesday host from 1956 - 1957. Thirdly, it was never The Tonight Show with Steve Allen, either. As for "no other credible source" the IMDb is certainly credible. Do your research next time! Sahasrahla 22:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
After researching this issue, I have concluded that Kovacs should not be included in the listing of hosts for the following reason. The IMDb entry showing Ernie Kovacs as a host of The Tonight Show is not necessarily incorrect, but highly misleading; Kovacs was a host, not the host of the Tonight Show. Numerous other famous people have also been guest hosts without being the recognized host of the show. I have already changed this article and the articles on Kovacs, Allen, and Paar accordingly.
My source for this change is the following:
Timberg, Bernard. Television Talk: A History of the TV Talk Show. Austin: UT Press,
2002.
Telestylo 07:49, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

However I put Kovacs back based upon my source, The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network TV shows 1046-Present, by Brooks and Marsh. 23skidoo 16:05, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Separate article for The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson

I created a Carson-specific article for The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson. It still needs work, but it already has had some advantages, such as allowing the infobox to be more informative and accurate (about number of episodes and duration for example). I could see this article remaining as the overall description it currently is, or this could become almost a disambiguation for a series of separate articles (following the current model for NBC's Late Night, for which two separate articles exist (Late Night with David Letterman and Late Night with Conan O'Brien). 66.167.141.83 05:05, 1 October 2005 (UTC).

I support this change. The new page is shaping up pretty well. Of course, new pages will need to be made for Steve Allen, Jack Paar, and Jay Leno's versions of the show, as well. Telestylo 08:04, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hosts

Wasn't Dick Cavett a host? Or am I confused.....

Cavett hosted his own late night talk show, but I am not certain if he hosted The Tonight Show specifically. I will research this and confirm it here, along with the apparently incorrect assertion that Ernie Kovacs was a host, as the page suggests. Telestylo 09:27, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Episode count

The episode count in the infobox is too low considering it is supposed to account for all incarnations of the show. The Carson show article alone lists more than 4,500 episodes. 23skidoo 22:00, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Taken care of. Master and Commander 07:09, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Existing episodes

Would it be worthwhile to add a paragraph or two about the many episodes that are presumed lost forever? The article does mention the kinescope of the very first Steve Allen segment, but there is nothing about other episodes lost/existing or the recovery of a full Johnny Carson episode a few years ago. 209.51.77.64 05:37, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Please go ahead. That's a good idea, especially since Carson expressed regret about this when he was preparing his final shows and had to say that many of his New York shows were lost forever. Even his very first night hosting is (at the present time) only represented by audio and a few photographs. If there happens to be an organized effort to recover lost Carsons (much as there's an effort scouring the world for lost Doctor Who episodes, this should definitely be mentioned. 23skidoo 05:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
The problem, of course, is being about to verify which episodes exist. Supposedly most of Johnny Carson's first ten years were either destroyed or recorded over by NBC. If that is the case, it stands to reason that most of Steve Allen and Jack Paar's episodes are gone as well. Rumor has it when Carson discovered what had happened to the first decade of his shows, he decided to personally make sure copies of his future programs were saved (and they were, kept in a climate-controlled salt mine). Anyway, a quick search of rec.arts.tv on Usenet reveals plenty of topics relating to which Carson episodes exist from the 1960s in kinescope form. It is disappointing that no record seems to exist. I will try to scrounge up some solid information within the next few days. 209.51.77.64 06:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't think we need to go into too much detail i.e. describing which episodes are missing. But it would be worth checking to see how widespread the problem is. I believe one of the reasons why we have more Steve Allen than early Carson episodes is that in the 1950s kinescoping was very widespread, but appeared to have died down by the 1960s even with the absence of VCRs. (I have never seen a kinescope of a North American program from, say, 1969. I have seen kinescope-like recordings, however, of British television programs like Doctor Who and The Avengers). 23skidoo 06:12, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Guest List

  • Is there list of guests that have appeared on the show? Pattersonc(Talk) 12:53 PM, Monday; January 30 2006 (EST)
Very good question that. I don't believe one has been attempted, though I believe Carson estimated that upwards of 10,000 guests appeared on his show (though I don't know if this includes repeats, groups, etc.) Once you add in Steve Allen, Jack Parr and Jay Leno you'd probably need a phone book roughly the size of the one for Red Deer, Alberta to list them all. ;-) 23skidoo 18:50, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
  • We would need a phone book for all of them. I'm going to start another page with the Guest Stars tonight, starting with whoever is on the show. If we can backlog all the previous guest, that's great, but at least we can start documenting the current guesting on all the talk shows. A small task if done daily, an daunting one if you wait 40 years to start. :-) Pattersonc(Talk) 2:41 PM, Monday; January 30 2006 (EST)
Make sure the list article is well-categorized (A-Z, etc) and has a strong intro, otherwise this is the type of thing that (in theory) could attract AFD. I think it's a good idea, myself, but to be honest I no longer know what qualifies for AFD anymore. Articles that used to be virtually speedy deleted are now passing near-unanimously, and don't even get me started on the new Living People category you've no doubt seen kicking around... ;-) 23skidoo 19:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How (blank) was it?

I added the above to the Classic Gags section. A few years back I was reading a book on the Tonight Show -- I have forgotten the title and author -- in which it was stated that the unfortunate audience member who actually said this during the monologue would be evicted from the studio as it was forbidden to interrupt Johnny's monologue. (I know, it doesn't make sense). This is a legitimate anecdote, however I cannot find the book in question so I'm hesitant to add it to the article lest someone think I'm making it up. Does anyone else remember the book this is mentioned in? I believe it was a book published before Carson left the show, and I vaguely recall the cover had a photo of him as Carnac. 23skidoo 04:53, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black and White

Does the line about Kevin and Bob Eubanks not being related really need to be there? I mean, look at them.

Good catch. It's gone. 23skidoo 15:13, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subpages

What does everyone think of having subpages for all the different shows? I don't see why not, everyone would have their different sketchs/ratings/famous moments/guests/bands/airing distributions/etc etc. I think it would be much more comprehensive and be more user friendly for editing.

Thoughts?

Cvene64 12:42, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

It would require some reorganization. I do believe that The Tonight Show as an institution deserves its own lead article (much as Star Trek has a franchise article and then sub-articles on the series). There should be an article created for Tonight! America After Dark (it redirects here right now). However what should be done with the "interregnum" period between Parr and Carson? IMDb lists it as a separate Tonight Show series... 23skidoo 19:47, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please stop adding Conan to the infobox

Conan O'Brien cannot be listed in the infobox until he actually becomes host of the show, which may happen in 2009 or may not happen at all. The Infobox is for confirmed and past information; all we know is Jay Leno started in 1992 and is the present host. To say otherwise is crystal ballism. The show could be cancelled next year, O'Brien could decide not to go to the Tonight Show after all ... we're talking 3 years into the future. The fact O'Brien has been named heir presumptive (and that's all) is well covered in both the article and the table of hosts. 23skidoo 00:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This Should Be Sepertate Articles...

I tink that we should split the article, since Late Night with Conan O'Brien and Late Night With David Letterman are seperate articles. Besides, it is said inthe article that the full name is currently "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno", not just "the Tonight Show". Let's split this article into one called The Tonight Show for the general history, one called The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. The earlier hosts should be a part of the general article beacuse we don't have as much about them. Plus, if we do split the article, we should create The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien, as we approach 2009.
Discuss?

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jaytitle.jpg

Image:Jaytitle.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 09:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Steve1sttonight.jpg

Image:Steve1sttonight.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meet the Press

Per the article introduction, Now in its 52nd season, The Tonight Show is the third longest-running entertainment program in U.S. television history (after the soap opera Guiding Light and Meet the Press). On the Meet the Press page, its own format is listed as "news", which is what I would consider it. I don't think it should count as a long-running "entertainment" program, as is said in the intro. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.181.44 (talk) 05:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How compatible (or incompatible) are Jay Leno and John Melendez?

How compatible (or incompatible) are Jay Leno and John Melendez? Jay Leno is a native of Boston, and John Melendez is a native of New York. Does their compatibility (or incompatibility) add to the humor of the show? This should probably be explained in the article.
Native94080 (talk) 08:37, 9 February 2008 (UTC)Native94080