Talk:The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter

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note from User:Chinasaur Article based entirely on ISBN 4770023294 (The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter, Donald Keene (translator))

Contents 1 References in popular culture 2 Mount Fuji 3 authorship? 4 Meaning of "Kaguya" 5 Variants or details? 6 Connections 7 Inter racial migrations

[edit] References in popular culture

There are quite a few references on this page to media that just happens to contain a character by the name of Kaguya. Shouldn't references be related to The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter as opposed to those that just coincidently contain a character of the same name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by NapalmRenn (talk • contribs) 18:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mount Fuji

Mt. Fuji contains this:

Perhaps the most popular folk etymology about the name of Fuji-san is the one that claims that the mountain's name means "Mountain Abounding with Warriors," according to which the name is written with the Chinese characters 富士山 ("abundant, ample; rich, wealthy" + "scholar, gentleman; soldier" + "mountain"). This is the standard way of transcribing the name of Fuji-san in Modern Japanese. The folk etymology of "Mountain Abounding with Warriors" has often been associated with a story that appears in the ancient and eternally popular Taketori Monogatari (竹取物語, Legend of the Bamboo Harvester), which is also known as "Kaguya-hime-no Monogatari" (かぐや姫の物語, Legend of Princess Kaguya). The main characters in this legend are Taketori-no Okina (竹取翁, the Old Man who Harvests Bamboo), Kaguya-hime (かぐや姫, Princess Kaguya) - a mysterious girl, discovered inside the stalk of a great bamboo plant by Taketori-no Okina when she was a tiny babe, who is said to be from Tsuki-no Miyako (月都, semantically "The Capital of the Moon," or phonetically "The Capital of Tuki") and who has unusual hair that "shines like gold"), and the reigning Tennō （天皇, Heaven Emperor, i.e. the Emperor of Japan). To make a long story short, the Tennō falls in love with the strangely beautiful Kaguya-hime and asks her to marry him, but Kaguya-hime does not accept the Tennō's request; her behavior becomes increasingly more erratic until an embassy of "Heavenly Beings" arrives at the door of the Bamboo Harvester's house, where Kaguya-hime has resided ever since she was found in her infancy by the Bamboo Harvester. The heavenly entourage takes Kaguya-hime back to Tsuki-no Miyako against her will, and the forlorn Tennō dispatches an army of soldiers to the tallest mountain in Japan, the great mountain of Suruga (Suruga is the ancient name of a region that is now part of Shizuoka Prefecture; it is the region where Mt. Fuji is located). The mission provided by the Tennō to the army is to climb to the summit of the great mountain and to burn a letter from the Tennō to Kaguya-hime there, with the hope that his message would reach the now distant "princess." The image of the innumerable soldiers of the Tennō's army ascending the slopes of Mt. Fuji is said to have been immortalized by naming the great mountain "Fuji-san" (富士山, "Mountain Abounding with Warriors"). The Legend of the Bamboo Harvester is nearly identical in form to a Tibetan tale of a similar name, and some researchers believe that the Japanese legend may have been drawn from the Tibetan one, perhaps through ancient contacts with China. Of course, the part of the legend that relates to the name of Mt. Fuji is unique to the Japanese version.

This needs to be merged in. --Carl 10:39, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] authorship?

who wrote the original Japanese version? this is critical —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NickDupree (talk • contribs) 08:35, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

not known. --LittleTree 02:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The one that is commonly known as "original" was written down back in early Heian period by some noble person but we don't really know who he is. There is some guess we can make on who he is (some characters are named with nicknames of contemporary nobles so he at least knew them) but it's not, and never will be, conclusive. Many early books were usually written down by a group of people as the scarcity of paper made the making of a book into something like a state-sanctioned project. Making the matter worse, on the Man'yōshū, there is a poet by a bamboo cutter who sung about a heavenly maiden meaning that it's quite likely the proto-story already existed back then. --Revth 08:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning of "Kaguya"

What is the meaning of the word "Kaguya"? --User:Angie Y.

“Radiant night” or perhaps in a more romantic sense “Shining brightly in the night.” This seems to be a reference to her golden hair or IMO her fair skin seems radiant in the night as is the full moon. Also note: it is not uncommon to name a girl after the first beautiful thing the parent sees after her birth, such as Akane for a beautiful sunset; or in the case of Kaguya-hime, the radiance of the full moon.70.32.125.72 08:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Why "night"? As far as I know, "ya" of "Kaguya" does not mean night. In a text, Kaguya was written as 赫映 [1], therefore, just "radiant" or "shining" would be fine. Or, "shining glow" if you would like. --LittleTree 02:03, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I've mainly seen it written as 輝 myself, which is a more modern character also with the essential meaning of "radiant" . The game Imperishable Night does have it as 輝夜, but that's probably just creative license. -Seventh Holy Scripture 04:58, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The Kaguyahime manga has it as 輝夜 as well...it might be coincidental, but... _dk 07:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I have seen only かぐや in modern texts. I am interested in seeing 輝. Could you give a reference? If you see 輝夜 in modern creations, it must be just an ateji, I would say. --LittleTree 00:29, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Variants or details?

I have yet to find the entire story in its original form translated into English. (And I am not paying $50.00 for the reference book.) I have seen shorter versions of the tale told with a few different or new details. E.g. Kaguya-hime grew from a thumb sized infant into full grown womanhood in only three months time; or, it was the emperor’s son and not the emperor himself who tried to court her. It is difficult for me to tell if they are from the original tale or if they are of more modern origin. Any juicy details that can be added to this article would be much appreciated.70.32.125.72 08:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

According to this Japanese text [2], the bamboo cutter found a three-inch person. She grew up into adolescence in three months. Two of the five suitors were prince, that is, emperor's son. Then, after she managed to reject the five, the emperor heard about that and became interested in her. He tried to bring her to the court but she refused. Thus, what 70.32.125.72 wrote seem to be details rather than variants, but note that there is no known original book, that is, even the known oldest story might be an integration of older variants. --LittleTree 02:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

There are many variants of this legend, some having different details. But this is true with most folk stories. There are two separate shorter versions alone in Royal Tyler's Japanese Tales. 4.84.14.205 06:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Connections

It's original research at this point, so I can't mention it in the article, but did anyone find this myth bears similarities to the tales in Chang'e (mythology)? -Seventh Holy Scripture 04:58, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

That's what I thought at first too. In fact, I first thought this myth is a corruption of Chang'e...guess not. _dk 07:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, some people have pointed it out, but I have no reference here. --LittleTree 00:45, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inter racial migrations

this is the story of a bamboo cutter who had a caucasion mistress, and bore an baby with blonde hair. this was so rare at the time that a legend was made of it. he couldn't tell the truth because he was married. the mother supported the baby with gold, and gave the bamboo cutter gold. She was probrably a visiting royal or explorer. the baby couldn't stay and be a princess in japan because she wasn't of those people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eequalsemceesquared (talk • contribs) 20:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Evidence?Andycjp (talk) 10:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I see no evidence at all that this is the case. Certainly there is no historical evidence to my knowledge of visiting caucasian dignitaries during this era. NapalmRenn