Talk:The Stand

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In the American TV series Jeremiah (typo?) a man made virus or some micro-organism has killed all of the adult population and the only remaining human beings who where not effected by the disease where children. The plot is happening several years after the catastrophe and has, in it's own way, a war between "Good" versus "Bad". I never have read the whole book, only started reading, but I see some similarities.

Also, the adolescent-aimed TV series from Australia or New-Zealand named The Clan had the exact scenario of Jeremiah, a virus have wiped out all of the adults or the world, the difference is of the budget, quality of actors, excessive amount of wasteful makeup, hair-dues and fashion accessories (They are trying to survive an holocaust, aren't they...?) and the amount of time after the bug have killed all of adult population. (The children in the world of Jeremiah are now but The Clan starts when adults are still dying, if I'm not mistaking)

I think you are talking about a show called The Tribe. Your description of The Clan"is and exact description of the The Tribe, so unless The Tribe has an alternate title, I'm pretty sure you just got the titles mixed up.

NOTE: There is a huge literature of post-apocalypse stories, of which The Stand and Jeremiah_(series) are part. That they recapitulate some similar themes and scenarios is to be expected. See post-apocalypse_Earth VJDocherty 01:38, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 SciFi/Horror? 2 Decimated? 3 Minor Change 4 Another Minor Change 5 Separate miniseries 6 Where are the Judge and Tom Cullen? 7 Spoiler 8 ...not to have been made into a theatrical feature film... 9 Minor Edit 10 Am I the only one... 11 On the Boarder/On the Border 12 Trivia 13 The Audiobook: Is there a The Stand: The Complete & Uncut Edition audiobook? 14 Book cover 15 Date of the events in the original version? 16 Kojak 17 Wikilinks in headings 18 Survivors 19 Trivia 20 Julie Lawry 21 Scientology? 22 Dark Tower question 23 Donald Elbert 24 Arnette, Texas 25 Agagail/Abigail 26 Randall Flagg

[edit] SciFi/Horror?

"The Stand" is not a "Scifi/Horror" novel; it is best described as a post-apocalytic fantasy. Yes, some horror elements are present, but not in the John Saul/Dean Koontz or 19th/early 20th-century sense. King isn't, and never has been, a standard horror novelist, and he doesn't bother with SciFi conventions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.72.94.110 (talk) 23:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Decimated?

To "decimate" is to reduce by ten percent. I haven't read the book in years, but seem to remember that something like 90% of the people die. Somebody who knows, please change it. R 07:32, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

It's funny: I was reading about this in Decimation just this morning, but for another reason. Apparently, while decimation used to mean "to reduce by 10%", it now has a meaning which means more like "to vastly reduce", in the sense of "leaving a tenth or less". So "decimation" is an okay word here as long as we use its modern meaning rather than its Roman meaning.

Atlant 18:55, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Minor Change

"The publishing history of the book is unique in that"

Deleted above, as The Stand is not the only book to be re-released in an expanded edition. Stranger in a Strange Land comes to mind right away. Jordoh 00:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe "unique" is fair here; SiaSL (nor any other book I know of) did not have a changed timeframe or other similar changes. Jgm 02:29, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Another Minor Change

In the description of the character Larry Underwood, I've deleted 'but not before warning him of the walking man' when describing the events surrounding his mother's death. As far as I recall, this never happened in the book (either version) only in the film adaption, where she tells him to 'watch out for the dark man'. If anyone can identify the exact sentence in the book where Larry receives this warning, then by all means change it back., but otherwise this should be deleted as inaccurate since other adaptions of the plot for the film are not mentioned (e.g. the Rita Blakemore/Nadine Cross characters being merged, the Deitz/Elder characters being merged, Ray Booth being imprisonned etc etc). Also, while Larry's mother died in his arms at home in the film, in the book she died on a cot in a corridor in Mercy Hosptial while Larry crouched on the floor next to her. I've therefore deleted 'in his arms' for the same reason.--86.27.52.203 22:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Separate miniseries

I'd like to make a seperate, detailed page for the miniseries and would really appreciate the help of King fans to add any differences between the novel and minseries or reaction to it. MrBlondNYC 11:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Be bold and go for it!

The two biggest differences I can think of:

• "The Kid" is missing from the miniseries. I guess TV just isn't very comfortable with the concept of homosexual rape by sadistic psychopaths.

• In the TV miniseries, Nadine Cross takes on the role served by two separate women in the book. In the Book, Larry has an older female companion when leaving Manhattan; she later commits suicide using a drug overdose. It's after that that Larry meets Nadine (and she's the one who has "Joe" tagging along with her.

There are lots of other changes that are just the typical TV plot-and-cast compression, but the foldiing-in to form the TV version of Nadine Cross is the only one that jumps out at me.

Atlant 12:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

• Not huge, but with the crazy girl (Julie Lawry) Nick and Tom meet, Nick had sex with her apparently and she smokes Mary Jane.

ASDFGHJKL 18:26, 31 July 2006 (EST)

Thanks for the help! I'll get started on it as soon as I can. MrBlondNYC 22:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

(I've added Julie Lawry's name to ASDFGHJKL's post above. Atlant 22:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC))

• i just finished watching the mini they didn"t focus alot on the media and other things that happened right after the superflu struck --ASDFGHJKL 14:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where are the Judge and Tom Cullen?

I've taken the liberty of adding a brief thumbnail for the Judge, and a space for Tom Cullen which I'll fill in later today. I've also fleshed out Harold Lauder and corrected some grammatical and stylistic errors. Stile4aly 19:33, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

M-O-O-N, that spells "Thanks!"; both deserved mention.

Atlant 23:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I've put in some info on Tom Cullen, as well as Ralph Brentner who was also missing. I've reordered the listing of characters into what seems to be a better flow, and deleted a few minor characters (were Campion, Elder, Ellis, and Jesse so important that they deserved mention?)Stile4aly 18:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd probably argue that Campion, as "Captain Trips Case Zero" deserved mention. Without his work, where would the story have been? ;-)

Atlant 19:05, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Good point, I've put Campion back in unchanged from the prior entry.

Stile4aly 18:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

this may be a minor point, and no one might ever see this, but I just finished reading the book during the second week of July, 2007. I noticed no mention of "the judge" being a black man in the novel, although he appears to have been in the film. Maybe I just missed it, but I don't think so.

--Sommermatt 07:21, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler

the first paragraph contains an unmarked spoiler (the part about characters destined to take a stand against flagg). i'm going to remove it and if someone wants it back in then put it in a separate section (preferably titled film) then do that and mark it for possible spoilers. --Scott w 20:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ...not to have been made into a theatrical feature film...

What about The Stand at the Internet Movie Database then? This is a major feature starring Gary Sinise. Why not mention that in the article? -- 84.58.179.82 22:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

It was made for TV. IMDB also lists made-for-TV movies.

Atlant 00:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

the page makes it seem as if there is a TV version of the stand and also a theatrical release version....... which is not true —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.65.129.115 (talk • contribs)

Be bold then, and fix it! I'll come back when I have time and see how I might be able to help. (John User:Jwy talk) 16:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Minor Edit

"(for example always spreads rumors about how it got cold early in the year in Boulder in 1984)."

In this part of the "Trivia" section it looks to me as though a name was left out; "for example --- always spreads rumors..."

I haven't read the book, so could someone who has please correct this. Thanks. — James.S ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 17:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Am I the only one...

...who thinks the Crimson King really isn't mentioned in the book at all? I mean, King has said he almost never writes from an outline, so the idea of him envisioning the Crimson King about three years before he ever mentioned him by name is a little silly to me. And that's assuming Glen's dreams were brand new for the Uncut edition--if they were in the original version, then that's over a decade before the Crimson King was even mentioned by name. There's also some pretty damn strong allusions to the red-eyed figure on the cliff being Flagg--note that right after Glen described this dream to Stu, Stu had a dream with an identical figure in it, and several of the other characters did as well; yet it's apparent from the text that these are all the dark man, not someone else.

Personally, I don't think the Crimson King should be mentioned here at all. Ours18 05:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree; I can't remember the details exactly, but TowerWiki doesn't go as far to assert Crimson King references either. The red eye similarity may be the only thing worthy of note. Pomte 01:22, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On the Boarder/On the Border

What is part 2 called officially? If I recall correctly the copy I read said On the Boarder, but I talked to someone whose copy says On the Border, so I figured it was a misprint. Pomte 06:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

In my copy of the complete and uncut edition Book II is called "On the Border." - Skinny McGee 16:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Same here. Ours18 17:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

My Hodder and Staunton 1989 copy, and "The Stand: The Complete And Uncut Edition" Random House 1993 copy (both dog-eared to death) say 'On the Border.'
Ummm... see border and boarder --Shirt58 14:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

My copy says "On the Boarder." I suppose different editions have different versions. Ccm043 16:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Compare Google of "On the Boarder" "Stephen King" "The Stand" with "On the Border" "Stephen King" "The Stand".
I suggest that it's Res ipsa toni loquitur...--Shirt58 13:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

In the Trivia section, it says that Stephen King had a case of writer's block which he solved by including the bomb. However, there is no reference given for this. There should be a reference given for this statement or it should be removed. Ccm043 16:39, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

He said this in On Writing.--CyberGhostface 20:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you have this reference handy? Could you cite it in the article? Ccm043 04:33, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Audiobook: Is there a The Stand: The Complete & Uncut Edition audiobook?

I know there was the 23 cassette version released around 1987 narrated by Grover Gardner (which would have been the original/"cut" version). What about the 1990 "Complete & Uncut version"? Are there any audiobook versions of that? Have any versions been released on CD? Antmusic 23:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

>> More like 18 CDs. It's a long book.

There is one, but it was recorded by the American Printing House for the Blind, read by Bruce Huntey (Hunty?) - I have a copy but it is in a pretty low bitrate MP3 format. I'd love them to release this commercially.

[edit] Book cover

I know its the first edition but can we get a different picture for the article? --ISeeDeadPixels 22:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date of the events in the original version?

The article currently reads "changed the setting of the novel from 1975 to 1990" -- I could swear the original events were 1980 or 1981. When the book came out and I read it (I was in school then) the plague dates were still in the future, or so I recall. (I remember when the dates came along in the real world, thinking "this is when Captain Trips arrived in The Stand.") At least they were after the publication date, because it would be odd to write a book of this nature with a date already in the past. Unfortunately the only copy I own is the Uncut version with the new dates (and wow, they did a crappy, half-assed job of updating it -- so many anachronisms. I don't know why they bothered), so I can't verify what the original one said. A quick Google search didn't help much. Can someone with access to the original version check this? ManekiNeko | Talk 23:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, you are definitely correct. Changed. --Cal42 19:20, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! ManekiNeko | Talk 14:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kojak

Another editor deleted the entry on Kojak from the list of characters. I've re-inserted it for now because I believe he was significant in the story and, therefore, warrants inclusion even though he is a dog. I seem to recall some parts of the story were told from his perspective (at least in the uncut version). What do you think? Should he stay or should he go? - Skinny McGee 15:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Kojak must stay on the list. That chapter from his point of view is one of my favorite parts of the book. Jeffrywith1e 10:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the person doing the deletion only watched the miniseries ;-).

Atlant 11:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikilinks in headings

Since the articles about characters are redirected to the article about the book/TV event, can we safely remove the links from the headings of the character sections? Bolman Deal 19:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, all links should be removed because the character descriptions here suffice, and I don't think any of the characters are notable enough for their own articles except Randall Flagg per WP:FICT. –Pomte 23:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survivors

The british TV series Survivors by Terry Nation (of Dr. Who fame) shares an incredible number of similarities to The Stand - see its Wikipedia article to see what I mean. Esentially it's a post-apocalyptic scenario where a virus wipes out 99.9 percent of humanity, and follows the survivors on a quest to rebuild society. The series ran from 1975-1977 and The Stand was published in 1978. Some of the supporting characters are almost identical, as well as themes of benevolent vs. opressive societies (though no supernatural themes). I think it would be worth putting in a note suggesting King was likely inspired by this series, but I'm not sure where to stick it. Any suggestions, comments? Toaster917 23:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)toaster917

Any reliable sources that say King was inspired by Survivors? Although some similarities are obvious, the article can't have a claim that is too speculative. –Pomte 23:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

Much of the stuff in Trivia seems to be worthy of better treatment in the article. A section on "the writing of..." that covers the writer's block. The books relation ship to the Dark Tower. The differences between the two editions. (John User:Jwy talk) 01:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I took a shot. I'm not completely satisfied with it - and we need some citations, but I think its a good start. (John User:Jwy talk) 01:37, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Julie Lawry

can someone add some info on Julie please?

Ok We really need information on Julie Lawry, she was a charcter too so would it be so simple for someone to add something please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.117.18 (talk) 03:18, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scientology?

In the "Popular Culture" part of the article, there is the following:

The Stand includes various references to the Church of Scientology. The protagonists were called Free Zoners(independent adherents of the religion), and they were headed to Boulder, CO, then the location of www.factnet.org, an anti-cult website. Randal 'Flagg' is a reference to Clearwater, FL, the mecca of Scientology.

I find the 'website' part difficult to believe, since the original novel was published in 1978 and the revised edition in 1990, before the concept of a website would've been widely known. -Pat 20:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

You're right. That's just gibberish -- unreferenced and completely nonsensical. I'm surprised it wasn't deleted sooner, but I've now done so. - Lontano 13:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dark Tower question

In my work on the Dark Tower portal, I have created a list of books connected to the Dark Tower lore. In my own mind, as a reader, I have always felt that, within the scope of the saga of Roland Deschain, The Stand and The Stand: The Complete and Uncut Edition are separate incidents, used to highlight that there are "other worlds than these" which might be considered so similar as to be almost indiscernible from one another. To me, this was underscored in the Dark Tower novel, Wizard and Glass, when the ka-tet stumbles into a parallel Kansas and finds a newspaper discussing yet a third date for "Captain Tripps" (the original novel took place in 1980, and the rewrite in 1990; the date on the newspaper in W&G is 1996). Regardless of what King may have originally intended, art is interpretative once it is made public (just look at how people interpret the works of DaVinci).

I post this here, because what I interpret in my own reading is one thing, but to actually write it that way in encyclopedic form may not appropriate. Any thoughts, anyone? Michealb1969 09:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

==== This is incorrect. The date on the paper in W&G is 1986, not 1996. That said, I agree with the theory that the Kansas encountered in W&G is not the one from The Stand, but a similarly affected Kansas.

==I agree completely. The different dates of the Captain Tripps disasters suggest that these could have been three unique events on three unique levels of the Tower. However, I also agree that it is non-encyclopedic for us to include it based on this, albeit interesting, hypothesis.ROG 19 17:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

==Definitely different tower levels - 'Night Surf' has Captain Tripps references that are clearly to a different type of flu as well. Leafschik1967 18:52, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Donald Elbert

This page redirects from Donald Elbert. Donald Elbert is listed under the University of Louisville People page as the inventor of Astro Turf and links to this page. 136.165.111.184 20:46, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I removed the link from List of University of Louisville people. The actual Donald Elbert mentioned in the list does not have an article. - Skinny McGee 21:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arnette, Texas

The main article states that Arnette, Texas is a fictional town. Below that is a photograph of a shack with the label Arnette, Texas. If it is fictional, should the picture be removed or at least a more appropriate title be given, like "Rural Texan town, similar to the fictional town of Arnette"? Kwyjibear 19:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agagail/Abigail

Interesting. Does the second version change the spelling of the name? I have the first version and its Abagail. (John User:Jwy talk) 15:47, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

In the 'complete and uncut' edition her name is spelled 'Abagail'. - Skinny McGee 16:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Randall Flagg

The article stated previously the evil is represented by logic, rationality, law and order and technology in King's vision. But Flagg(evil) doesn't represent them; he will attract those whom he needs most, but that DOES NOT MEAN he represents those things. He participated in anti-government moves, he's irrational and driven by impulse(he threw Nadine out of the window) and he uses magic. he rather attracts those who like destruction and power. Minsiko (talk) 05:48, 17 February 2008 (UTC)