Talk:The Piper at the Gates of Dawn

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The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit · refresh) Article requirements: Y All the start class criteria Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details Y At least one section of prose (excluding the lead section) Y A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs Y A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians Y Categorisation at least by artist and year Y A casual reader should learn something about the album. Andrzejbanas (talk) 08:33, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

	This Pink Floyd-related article is within the scope of WikiProject Pink Floyd, a collaborative effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Pink Floyd, their members, associates, albums and songs. You can help! Visit the project page, discuss an article at the project talk-page, or even join us!
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Capitol Records is NOT the original label for this album. RedWolf 16:20, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Album title 2 Iron Maiden reference? 3 B class article 4 Table 5 Fair use rationale for Image:The Gnome.ogg 6 Barrett as songwriter, psychedelia and space rock 7 Fair use rationale for Image:Interstellar Overdrive.ogg 8 Fair use rationale for Image:Piper40.jpg 9 Opinions please

[edit] Album title

The album cover just says "PINK FLOYD". Where does it say "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.188.172.165 (talk • contribs) 05:15, 16 July 2006.

On the back and on the Album spine. Dude this is common knowledge that the album is called this. This is rare, to leave the title off the cover, but the same thing happened with several other Floyd albums (Atom Heart Mother, for one), and not many other bands do it (though New Order did it with one of their albums) Doc Strange 15:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, I think the US listing should be removed and moved to an article on the album "Pink Floyd". Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 22:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Why? It's basically the same album and was only availible on vinyl until A Nice PairDoc Strange 19:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

No. Both "Piper" and "Saucerful" were always available as separate albums even after the release of "A Nice Pair", at least in the UK. NH 79.121.143.143 (talk) 03:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)13th Feb 08 Also: I've just checked my original UK Mono issue of "Piper" and that only has the title on the back, not on the front OR spine.NH79.121.143.143 (talk) 16:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Iron Maiden reference?

Does the lyric "the piper at the gates of dawn is calling you his way" from "The Wicker Man" by Iron Maiden refer to this album or something else entirely? Cryomaniac 22:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe they're refering to Wind in the Willows where the name of this album was taken from. Doc Strange 19:31, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] B class article

In order for this to become a B class article i think that the introduction needs to be shortened. Also much of the information in the introduction belongs in a trivia section. Perhaps the different album versions should be removed as well as i find these too long. We need to build up a recording history section and a background section. From reading this, there is no indication of where the band were at at this stage in their careers. - Ummagumma23 18:18 27 February 2007.

I apologise for the excessive number of edits made by me in the last 24 hours - Ummagumma23 18:35 10 April 2007 (UTC)

You do not need to apologize. But please do not remove any information, it took hard work for other editors. Also, it seems that there is a policy somewhere against trivia sections. Thank you.Doktor Who 17:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok. Where do you suggest that triva information goes then? I removed it from the introduction because it didnt think it was appropriate to have it there. Can i also suggest removing the (see Toc H) because i dont really see what that has to do with the song really - Ummagumma23 17:10 11 April 2007 (UTC).

• See Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections in articles on how to deal with trivia. RedWolf 21:57, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Table

Could someone please make a table for the release history section, thank you - Ummagumma23 18:27 24 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:The Gnome.ogg

Image:The Gnome.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:09, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barrett as songwriter, psychedelia and space rock

I've just removed this whole section:

The songs on the album are split between freefrom space rock numbers and whimsy, childlike, psychedelic compositions. Many of the songs had been played regularly in the live arena, however it is argued that the album tracks lack the live versions kinetic and spacey feel. Much of the album belongs exclusively to Barrett, with few other contributors. In effect, Piper is Barretts album, but much of the material constructed by him would have a huge influence on the future direction of the band. The opening track "Astronomy Domine" immediatly evokes the feeling of being in space, with the voice of Peter Jenner speaking through a megaphone, sounding like an astronaut in the depths of space. More then any other track, the style and feel of "Astronomy" was later expanded and built upon by the post-Barrett Pink Floyd, and the songs influence can be felt on Ummagumma and even The Dark Side of the Moon. "Astronomy" refects Barretts complete rejection of standard pop music by creating an unusual chord progression. The spacey is encorporated into the psychedelic with "Lucifer Sam" the only song on the album to feature an actual chorus. The knowing but child-like qualities of the track are a quintessential Barrett trait and the melody encorporates something in between Batman and the OO7 theme tune. "Matilda Mother" is another psychedelic tune, which via the nostalgic lens of LSD harks back to childhood. The organ passages heighten the sense of childhood revisited, and are a regualrly occurance both on the album and the clutch of singles written by Barrett at this time. For "Flaming" Barrett reaches possibly his most psychedelic, with a variety of images which again evoke the feeling of childhood games. "Pow R. Toc H." signals the beginning of the bands flirtation with the avante garde. Somesthing that the band would progress with throughout the rest of the 1960s. Although credited to all four members, its clear the much of the song was composed by Roger Waters, and the strange sound effects produced by him and Barrett are similar to those heard on Careful With That Axe, Eugene in 1968, and even later in 1979 jungle like noises can be heard on live versions of Run Like Hell (see Is There Anybody Out There? The Wall Live 1980-81). Unlike subsequent Pink Floyd albums, Roger Waters contribution to Piper is minimal, with the song "Take Up Thy Stethoscope and Walk" being his sole writing credit. "Stethoscope" is particulalry Barrett-eske and lacks the cynical world weary view Waters would later employ. The lyrics are typically list-like, a feature of many of Waters later works such as; "If" and "Eclipse". "Interstellar Overdrive" was the title peice for the band, and it was played at almost all concert events. The spaciness delivered on "Domine" is expanded upon here, and "Interstelllar" begins the Pink Floyd tradtion of long compositions stretching normally over 10 minutes. This tradition would continue until 1979s The Wall. At the time the song was an altogether radical move due to its length, and ensured that the band remained outside the rock mainstream, and like "Pow R. Toc H." the track verges on the avante garde. "The Gnome" is the first pastoral track written by the band and would be the catalyst for Pink Floyds emergence as a pastoral band in the late 1960s and ealry 1970s. "The Gnome" further illustrates Barretts association with novels and literature as seen in the albums title. Tolkiens The Lord of the Rings is seen as being an influence, and "Chapter 24" borrows lyrics from the trendy sixties tome the I Ching (the book of changes). Althougth the bands reference to literature would become lessened over the coming years, literature would still be an influence on the writings of Roger Waters. For example "Let There Be More Light" and "Set the controls for the heart of the sun" were composed using lyrics from science fiction texts, and even his 1992 solo album Amused to Death was based on the book by Neil Postman - Amusing Ourselves to Death. "The Scarecrow" highlights a pastoral approach which the band would take in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The tracks lyrical imagery would later become key thematic concepts addressed in peices such as Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall, but it also sees Barrett moving towards personal introspection. The final track "Bike" restores the psychedelic approach, and the musique concrete techniques deployed at the end are both humorous and innovatice. The use of sound effects would continue to be a major part of the bands musical approach and direction.

because it reads like an essay and seems to be comprised mostly of original research. Andy Mabbett 19:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes i wrote it and it was almost completly original. I knew it would get deleted, but i really want something like that to be encorporated into the article. Thanks for pasting it on to the talk page anyway - Ummagumma23 10:09 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Interstellar Overdrive.ogg

Image:Interstellar Overdrive.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:33, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Piper40.jpg

Image:Piper40.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 16:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Opinions please

An editor has removed 2 pieces of info which I have reverted, twice. I don't agree with their removal, and am trying to prevent an edit war. I stated my reasons on the editor's talk page, but he has not replied. Please check these changes and comment on whether you think they should stay or go:

1. Changed genre in info box from "psychedelic music, space rock" to just "psychedelic music"

• Edit summary on removal: one genre is fine
• Edit summary on revert: it's appropriate and not unusual to use 2
• Edit summary on removal #2: really not necessary
• Posted on user's talk page: I have never seen a guideline that says an album should ideally have only one genre, but maybe that's not your reason for making the change. "Space rock" was undoubtably added in reference to "Interstellar Overdrive". I do recall an interview where someone (Waters?) dismissed the idea that IO is a pioneering example of space rock, or is space rock at all. Maybe that's why you removed it? I suspect members of PF and other bands often have opinions about their own work which vary greatly from their fans, and this is a good example. I don't see how a case can be made for saying IO is NOT a classic example of space rock. Also, the track is so different from most others on the album, and I think this justifies listing more than one genre.

2. Removed link to allgigs website review

• Edit summary on removal: none
• Edit summary on revert: why remove the review? it's not a dead link
• Edit summary on removal #2: not a notable reviewer
• Posted on user's talk page: I am concerned about how Pink Floyd, a British band, has so many Americanized references on WP. ... On the Piper page, there were 6 reviews, of which 4 were American websites, 1 was a British magazine without website link (presumably printed review, non-website), and 1 British website, which is the one you removed. Your edit summary says "not a notable reviewer", so maybe it's the reviewer rather than the website you object to. I would question whether this reviewer might be better known in the UK than the other American reviews are. (I'm not located in the UK, so I don't know the answer, but it seems a reasonable guess that he might be.) I read the review, and I don't see anything that makes it, or the reviewer, or the website less professional than the others. So I don't see the problem, and I think it's good that we have at least one linkable review from the UK in this article.

I also commented on the user's talk page: When I see info removed, I consider the efforts of the person who put it in originally, as well as the concerns of the person who removed it.

Please wait for a response to this before reverting again. Thanks! --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 08:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

You don't need to list a number of genres in the infobox; be concise if possible. There's no need to list space rock (which is ill-defined and according to All Music Guide is a genre of alternative rock that emerged in the 1980s). List psychedelic rock or just rock. As for the review, that's not a notable review site. What they think of the album is largely irrelevant. Given the importance of this album, reviews from more notable sources should be tracked down (particularly contemporary British reviews by NME and Melody Maker; most of the reviews listed in the infobox were made years after the fact). WesleyDodds (talk) 18:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)