From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Literature Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to narrative novels, novellas, novelettes and short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit one of the articles mentioned below, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
	This article has an incomplete infobox template! - see Novels InfoboxCode or Short Story InfoboxCode for a pattern
Assessment comments This article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.

Contents 1 Discussion 1.1 Novel / Film 1.2 Ad simplicio? 1.3 The Name of the Rose 1.4 Merge tags 1.5 The Rose 1.6 Trivia integration 1.7 Comment about Dr Watson 1.8 University of Toronto

[edit] Discussion

How do the stairs in the monastery's library resemble those in Robarts Library? The stairs in Robarts don't seem particularly interesting to me... Adam Bishop 02:48, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

As far as I remember, Eco mentions in the intro to the book how he found "the terrible story of Adso of Melk" in an original medieval manuscript, later lost by Eco, which was followed by his intricate quest for more references. Perhaps some elucidation on that point, if more information came to light. (Eco later published "Postscript to the Name of the Rose", reflections on the novel. I didn't read it, perhaps there is more information there.) http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_works_nonfiction.html

But I believe that that introduction is meant to be part of the fictional work, rather than be taken at face value. - Nunh-huh 01:17, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Novel / Film

I think this article needs to distinguish more between novel and film. -- Blorg 22:23, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sofixit :D :D :D (i'm working on Patras Wireless Network right now :) can't help, sorry :) Project2501a 23:43, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to delete references to the film. Danspalding 06:58, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ad simplicio?

Why bother to say "ad simplicio" means "to simplicio"? Can we either translate simplicio or remove the half-translation entirely? MrCheshire 21:49, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Simplicio was a character in Galileo's book. 68.74.112.41 03:47, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Name of the Rose

NPR had a program about the novel and mentioned that the words "The Name of the Rose" were taken from a Latin phrase that alludes to the present-day Roman Catholic Church not being thelegitimate successor to the early Christian church. What is the orginal Latin phrase and what does it mean?72.150.132.37 16:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)nan

I can't believe that people don't know what the phrase "the name of the rose" alludes to. The explanation is so simple and obvious. It's the famous speech by Juliet in "Romeo and Juliet":

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose / By any other name would smell as sweet."

This has double meaning in the context of this novel: the most obvious one is an answer to the ending of the novel. In the last paragraph, Adso admits that the one thing that he cherishes the most on his life is his experience with the girl - even though he never even learned her name! The title suggests that it isn't important that he didn't learn her name, or that he never got to know more about her; what matters is that she made him feel love for the first and only time in his life.

The other meaning has to do with one of the central themes of the novel. The main medieval scholastic dispute was between nominalism and realism, over the the existence of 'universals', abstract concepts. Realists argued that universas are *real*. In Plato's theory, universals were the most important, and reasoning was based on deduction from universal principles. Aristotle's position was more moderate, he acknowledged universals, but argued universal principals should be induced by examining specific data. The extreme version of Plato's system of thought (e.g. Neo-Platonism) completely rejects empiric data - neo-Platonists went to far as to consider all material world evil. While they did go that far and while they did accept the reality of the material world, St. Augustine and most other Western theologists had a tendency to put abstract above the concrete, spirit above matter, and faith above reason. In contrast with the realists, nominalists argued that universals were no more than "names" for a group of similar things. This view was subversive because it implied that The Church is no longer an ontological unity as "the Body of Christ", but merely a Name to denote a collection of like-minded individuals with the same faith. Conceptualists, mediating between the two extremes, held that universals are concepts which exist in our minds and express real similarities in things themselves. Here's a part of an encyclopedic entry about this issue: "Under an appearance of much vain subtlety the controversy about universals involved issues of the greatest speculative and practical importance: realism represented a spiritual, nominalism an anti-spiritual, view of the world; while realism was evidently favourable, and nominalism unfavourable, to the teaching of the Church on the dogmas of the Trinity and the Eucharist. Nominalism was a doctrine of sceptics and suspected heretics, such as Berengar of Tours and Roscellinus. Even Abelard's mediating doctrine of conceptualism was sufficiently near to obnoxious ideas to involve him in lifelong persecution. The principles of the great orthodox philosophers of the later scholastic period which begins in the 13th century, Albertus Magnus and Thomas Aquinas, were those of moderate realism. When nominalism was revived in the 14th century by the English Franciscan, William of Occam, it gave evidence of a new tendency in thought, a distrust of abstractions and an impulse towards direct observation and inductive research, a tendency which had its fulfilment in the scientific movement of the Renaissance. Occam's dictum "Entia non multiplicanda sunt praeter necessitatem" was inspired by a spirit similar to that of Bacon. Though nominalism is properly a medieval theory, the tendency has passed over into modern philosophy: the term "nominalist" is often applied to thinkers of the empirical, sensationalist school, of whom J. S. Mill may be taken as the chief representative." http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Nominalism

Considering the fact that the main theme of the novel is the conflict between the empirism and the scientific mind embodied by William of Baskerville (a follower of Roger Bacon) and the religious dogma embodied by Jorge, and, in broader sense, between free thought and dogmatism in general, the title of the novel, "The Name of the Rose", and its allusion to the Shakespeare's lines I quoted ("what's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet") gains a new meaning and points very clearly the author's stance on this issue.

Nightandday —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nightandday (talk • contribs) 06:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge tags

The article Librarians in the Name of the Rose is unlikely to become more than a paragraph or two, and probably should be merged into The Name of the Rose Kathy A. 21:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. If there's a Wiki about librarians, no doubt a longer article will appear in it one day. Andrew Dalby 21:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Rose

My edition of the book has a Dramatis personæ. There the yound girl (that seduces Adson) is named "maybe the rose". --62.245.207.18 22:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The editor that added "maybe the rose" should be strung up and pummeled.

[edit] Trivia integration

In keeping with Wikipedia's views on trivia sections, I took the liberty of relocating the section into a new sub-category, "Title". Please feel free to expand on the topic. Reason turns rancid 19:36, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment about Dr Watson

Hi:

The article currently has the sentence 'It is also a play on Holmes' friend Dr. Watson.' Err, How is Adso a play on the name Dr . Watson?

Andy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.175.251 (talk) 02:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

wADSOn? -- Paul Richter (talk) 10:36, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] University of Toronto

As I mentioned above a few years ago, I thought it was odd that the monastery was being compared to Robarts Library. However, it makes more sense if the Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library was intended, since it does resemble the monastery somewhat, and it is attached to Robarts. Is this crazy original research or should I just assume that's what was meant by "Robarts"? Adam Bishop (talk) 07:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)