Talk:The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime)/Archive 1

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Lead

(quote) The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yūutsu?)is the name of a 2006 anime based on a series of novels by the same name.

Hmmm... this wording unfortunately ascribes "the same name" to the whole series of novels, rather than the first novel only. How about:

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yūutsu) is the name of a 2006 anime based on a series of novels the first of which bears the same name.

--Iain David Stewart 23:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with this. I'm about to perform some clean up to the test article, and I'll include this change. One major change is the exclusion of the Themes section which seems to be nothing more than fan speculation.--十八 05:31, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

GA?

I was just looking through this page, and it seems like it may pass GA. It's well written, verifiable, neutral, and covers a large range of the material, appropriate for it. Interested in nominating it?Sbloemeke 11:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Sure, why not?--十八 11:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

No merger:

We already established this at WP:HARUHI. The light novel and anime should not be in the same article, as the light novel only deals with episodes 2, 3, 5, 10, 13, and 14. The other 8 episodes are not from that light novel. Thus why we need two articles. I'm going to remove the merger suggestion.Sbloemeke 11:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I also agree on this point and the fact that when the second season roles around, we're going to need a separate page for the anime anyway.--十八 11:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Evaluation for GA

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime)/Archive 1
SCORES IN KEY AREAS
Legality A A A A
Neutrality B B B
Writing B B B
Sources B B B
Citations B B B
01:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


The pictures are fine. You might want to have to have a spoilers tag in the plot section. However the writing seems a little POV in the fan section: "The series has been met with immense popularity and a dedicated fanbase, and has become a cult television series." "The concept of Haruhiism is humorously portrayed by fans to be somewhat of a pseudoreligion, with Haruhi as "God."" In the episodes section, there's problems with the prose: "During the previews for the next episode, the viewers are always given two different numbers for the following episode (except for episode number twelve), one number from Haruhi, who numbers the episodes according to where they actually fit chronologically in the plot, and one number from Kyon, who lists the episode numbers in the order in which they aired." In the first half of the article, there are several paragraphs without citations. A bit needs to be done unfortunately :(.◙◙◙ I M Kmarinas86 U O 2¢ ◙◙◙ 01:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. The prose has been cleaned up and references added. Anything else? Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Better. At this point, I think it has a better chance of making it.◙◙◙ I M Kmarinas86 U O 2¢ ◙◙◙ 12:00, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Are you saying we should try a renom, or that it is just better?Sbloemeke 22:10, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (anime)/Archive 1
SCORES IN KEY AREAS
Legality A A A A
Neutrality A A A A
Writing A A A A
Sources A A A A
Citations A A A A
00:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


This article fine, though it might be toned down a bit. "The series has been met with a great deal of popularity and a dedicated fanbase..." The phrase "dedicated fanbase" is good, but a "great deal of popularity" is unclear wording. What is a deal? LOL. This article still makes it though. Passed.◙◙◙ I M Kmarinas86 U O 2¢ ◙◙◙ 00:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Product Placement

Apparantly, the 10th episode of Lucky Star, an anime which is also produced by Kyoto Animation, contained explicit product placement for the Haruhi Vol 5 DVD, it might be worth a mention. Link to source: [1] - Vadigor 20:58, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so. If anything, that is blatent trivia since the reference was 1) very brief, and 2) Lucky Star has a ton of references to other anime, which could be seen as "product placement" too.--十八 00:14, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
There has been many Haruhi references in Lucky Star; I just seen a few in episode 12 (phone cards, posters, ad truck, manga, figures, etc.) I have seen references in Hayate no Gotoku a few times, so just mentioned that this anime was referenced in X and Y series (I am not a big fan of trivia, but if there has to be some, this might be doable). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:14, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

ASOS Brigade

So, I noticed that this section is becoming larger and larger. Should it be its own article, perhaps, with a link from here?Sbloemeke 13:07, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that asosbrigade.com would qualify for it's own article per WP:WEB if that is what you mean to do. The basis of that entire section is the website, so I think for now we should just keep it here, or trim it down some of some information that is more or less cruft, or otherwise unimportant to the subject matter.--十八 22:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Does it really need much more of a mention other than it exists?Sbloemeke 03:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

AnimeExpo 2007

Ok, I just got back from that today, and this is what I can personally tell you. Yes, the three Haruhi gals were present at AX, but were late. They were not present at the opening ceremony, since they were flying over San Francisco in a prepared message to us. The dance contest was held on Friday and Saturday (with the winners announced on Saturday). The concert was held, but was delayed due to technical issues, but they were still present during the show. The winners did go and danced with the gals, but during the actual contest, the Bandai USA gals were there (I didn't take photos since I was on one of the dancing team). I know they had an autograph signing, but that had some issues and not sure if they were present at the closing ceremony, since I was already back home when it began). Anyways, I did take photos, I did cosplay as Kyon, so I will need to see how my camera held up and see if any pics came out. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Hare Hare Yukai pictures came out OK, but pictures of some of the cosplayers and the manga books I purchased failed. Anyways, uploaded one of them. Enjoy User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Music

"There were four insert songs included in the anime."

In fact there is a fifth. The last piece of classical music in "Day of Sagittarius" is the end of the last movement of Symphony No. 4 In F Minor by Peter Tchaikovsky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.76.116 (talk • contribs)

This section should state which movements of the symphonies are used. As written now, it seems to be saying that the entire symphonies are used, which is of course impossible; Mahler's Symphony No. 8 runs for over an hour! It also refers to them as "songs", which is inaccurate, as only the Mahler has vocals. — Gwalla | Talk 20:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Ratings

It has been mentioned that it is unclear as to exactly how popular the show is. Anime News Network voters currently rate it number 9 rated anime and number 7 most popular anime. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/ratings-anime.php Citable, quantitative... Should easily fit into reception and fandom, no? Lord Stu 21:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, however, I assume the ratings chart changes every so often...? That means the source wouldn't convey the same information if checked upon by someone at a latter time due to shifts. It's not permanent.Fox816 23:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to add that Anime News Networks system for rating shows tends to favour newer works over older one's and from a purely western perspective. It's ranking chart places a very heavy weight on the number of votes as a ratio to the scoring those votes give. As a result a show can easily be ranked Number 1 for an entire day by having a certain perfect ratio, but then vanish from the list the next and drop several 100 ranks. In this case I would use it in a debate, but back it up with something more qualitative, like what specific fans have had to say about it. Also look at the details of such a qualitative review and check for bias. I frequent a lot of anime forums and a lot of the people in them when discussing anime quality tend to give special favour to works by certain studios, directors or one's with certain voice actors in them. It should be obvious though if there is any bias, but try to go with the words of older anime fans, they will likely have more experience and thus be a more trustworthy source on quality. Hope this helps. Kaioshin Sama (talk) 00:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Dance section?

The dance from the ending credits of the show is rather popular in many parts of Japan and America, and it's not uncommon to see people dancing it (or to find videos on YouTube of people dancing it). This is something that I've never seen for various other anime, and I think there should a section added to the article about it. I mention this because I've actually never seen the anime, but I'm extremely familiar with the dance simply through exposure, and it seems strange that the article doesn't mention it. --Egocentrism04 23:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

The main reason it isn't mentioned is that its popularity can only be cited via youtube, or blogging sites, which should not be present in a Good Article. And besides, there's an image of cosplayers at AX doing the dance, and it's noted in the fandom section near the photo.--十八 23:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

2nd season

can someone tell me when does the season two comes out?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.88.154 (talk • contribs)

It hasn't been confirmed yet.--十八 08:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

the season or the date —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.98.189 (talk) 02:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The date. The second season was confirmed a long time ago.--十八 06:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

ok thankies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.98.189 (talk) 01:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

What event in Japan will likely give the official date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.4.204.47 (talk) 04:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Either via an announcement by KyoAni via www.haruhi.tv, or through a magazine.--十八 07:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Awards

The show got some more awards from Anime News Network... Maybe some of the primary contributors should go over their article and see what can be included here? --Koveras ☭ 08:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler

Isn't stating on beggining about "girl who, unbeknownst to her, possesses the power to change reality" a spoiler in itself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Madcio (talk • contribs) 23:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

It supplies context for the entire series and is a nice way to sum up the premise of the series, and besides, I think thare are much larger spoilers out there that don't have such heavy bearing on describing the premise in one sentence.--十八 23:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it's a spoiler, but Wikipedia is not generally spoiler-free (WP:SPOILER), it doesn't get into details, and it's a wonderfully concise exposition of the premise. Dcoetzee 17:59, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Theme Section

A theme section should be added. Unfortunately I had to revert a user's contribution to adding one since it was primarily original research with no references backing. However, a theme section is still something nice to put in and can help advance the article. A good example for designing and writing one would be to look at the Lain article which is fairly well written and has already achieved FA status. The only problem for us is getting official translated materials...which has always been a thorn in the side sadly. Fox816 (talk) 19:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps we can recruit help from the talk page of the Japanese version of this article? Dcoetzee 18:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Being Naive about Episode Order

Did anyone ever notice how, in this anime, the hero and heroine are constantly arguing?

Haruhi yells at Kyon, telling him he's late, or that he's making too much noise, or not doing what he was told, or making him go out and get a heater because she's cold. Then Kyon rolls his eyes, sighs, shakes his head, mumbles that she's being impossible again, and generally acts like a long suffering husband. Tell me -- do you really believe that these two people could even begin to agree about the order of the episodes?

The whole point of the Haruhi and Kyon episode lists is NOT that one list is right and the other is wrong. The point is that they can't even agree about that. I know a couple who have arguments about when they got their cat -- she says it was before they got the new furnace; he says is was afterwards. And they bicker about it.

So don't suggest in this article that one of the two episode orders is right and the other is wrong or that the two orders were put in "... because the climax of the story, in chronological order, occurs barely halfway into the series, and thus causes the story to lose some dramatic effect" (note 3). Folks, you've missed the whole point. Instead, the point is that they're at it again, Kyon and Haruhi -- and we're not supposed to take either of them seriously. The different episode orders is part of the plot itself, or, more accurately, part of the characterization of the hero and heroine.

The upshot is that no one -- least of all the protagonists! -- knows the right order of the episodes. It's just one more of the really very clever plot devices in The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. And it has nothing at all to do with telling innocent and believing fans, like the authors of note 3, what the real order of the episodes was. It's part of the humor of the series.

Timothy Perper (talk) 16:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Suffice it to say that attempting to guess the intention of the producers in airing the episodes out of chronological order is original research. If we don't have an interview explaining, let's not try to explain it. Dcoetzee 17:01, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Really? The article already has a number of such guesses -- one of which I quoted. Did you read it? I'll quote it again, from note 3. The two orders were put in "... because the climax of the story, in chronological order, occurs barely halfway into the series, and thus causes the story to lose some dramatic effect" (note 3).
Where are your complaints about note 3, Dcoetzee?
Well, let's get that fixed. I put {{original research}} tag and {{citation needed}} tags on Note 3. That might get the ball rolling about the issue.
Point 2 is that it is not against any principles of Wikipedia to discuss matters of interpretation on the talk page. That's what the talk page is for -- to discuss issues whose interpretation shapes what the article says. And this is one such issue. And I feel, as I said, that the unreferenced, unsourced interpretation in the article about episode order is naive and is contradicted by the content of the series itself.
Timothy Perper (talk) 22:39, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Comment by TP How to fix this: remove the last sentence of Note 3 and add a citation. I'll wait a few days for comments and then remove the sentence and the OR tag myself if there are no objections.Timothy Perper (talk) 22:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree - I wasn't very clear. I don't think the article should offer any interpretation of why the episodes were not aired in chronological order, unless one has been explicitly given by the production staff. I think the current explanation should be removed. Dcoetzee 00:21, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
It looks like it was claimed as a reference than a note and made a claim without sourcing. I've already removed it. The Haruhi/Kyon order is mentioned in the Episode Section - though the "correctness" of either is left out since it's only speculation. Thanks for catching that small bit...just next time you don't have to write too much about it you know. To save time, patience, and more importantly possible misunderstandings, a simple - hey this one doesn't sound right. It's definately original research without any sources - or something along those lines would really suffice. Either way, nice catch. Fox816 (talk) 03:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, guys. Looks like we're all on the same wavelength here! Timothy Perper (talk) 05:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


Neon Genesis Evangelion Tributes?

This may just be speculation on my part but a good bit of actions taken by Kyon , Mikuru and Yuki's personality be tributes to Rei , Asuka and Shinji (Like in the movie when Kyon was scripted *I think* to kiss Mikuru in her sleep or unconscious state and Yuki having a good bit of similarities with Rei's personality and loyalty.) 69.86.55.235 (talk) 02:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
It's just coincidental I'd say. The character types for the Brigade are very...cliche so to speak but the series is executed in such a manner that it doesn't really matter. Unless there's credible backing towards possible influences on personalities or character drawups from Evangelion in the form of reliable sources (e.g. interview with the director, creator, character designer, etc...) then it's just speculation. Fox816 (talk) 03:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Although there are some similarities, I believe there are too many significant differences between the character personalities. There are many similar characters in other anime as well. Highwind888 (talk) 04:28, 31 January 2008 (UTC)