Talk:The Man Behind the Curtain

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Contents

[edit] Trivia

Richard Alpert is shown in three different timeframes. The first is when he meets Ben just after Ben's arrival (when Ben is aged 8-12), then as a young man that Ben meets after the bloodshed (when Ben is aged 20-25) and finally in the present (when Ben is in his forties). Between the young Ben and the present, at least 30 years have passed, though Alpert does not appear to age.

I disagree with this statement, the only way lost shows age is through "Hair" as seen in Jack's and Locke's flashback's therefore when a 12 year old Ben meets Richard (with long hair) could mean that Richard as young as 19.

--203.81.236.88 12:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I second that; it doesn't seem to me that Richard fails to age. --Heather

[edit] Juliet and the Tape

Juliet seemed to know what was on the other side of the tape, even though she hadn't heard it after Ben recorded it. Ben thought Richard had already taken it whereas it was actually Locke that had taken it directly to Sawyer, therefore Juliet wouldn't have heard it... AdamHorn 00:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

- Probably Ben instructed her earlier that answers or further instructions will be on the other side of the tape.--86.132.200.127 15:37, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I thought that was the case, but it seemed as though she knew what was on the other side of the tape, the "we be there in two days" bit. AdamHorn 19:58, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peculiarities in the mud

That's what the article says Locke was examining. Anyone else reckon is was powder, the same sort the monster is made of? Jacob appears to have supernatural powers so maybe he's the monster?

I think it was ash. The teacher in Bens school mentioned there was a volcano on the island, i think it maybe significant


[edit] The voice that said, "Help me."

It was not Ben, and the face we saw saying it looked different; with stubble.

I think it looked like Christian, Jack's dad. But that's just me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.169.134.187 (talk) 03:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

i kinda thought that too, but i could've just been the fact that he's an old man.65.43.214.58 07:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
You do realize that was just a odd angle shot of Locke, don't you? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.68.135.117 (talk) 13:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC).
Must have been a very, very odd angle to make his facial features change and grow a beard. Jacob, not Locke. Shikino 13:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
The voice was almost certainly provided by Carlton Cuse, he said in a podcast that he did voice work in this episode. 69.255.157.150 03:16, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
And by Carlton Cuse, I mean Damon Lindelof. 69.255.157.150 03:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
See the new episodes trailer - there is Christian sitting in a place that looks like Jacobs hut

[edit] You CAN see Jacob: if you try hard enough.

Is this Jacob?
Is this Jacob?

You actually do get to see Jacob;
Go to the bit where Locke turns on his flashlight and the house goes 'psycho'
After Benjamin tells 'Jacob' "thats enough, you've had your fun" and gets thrown to the wall, slow it down.
The camera pans to the chair and someone is sitting there, in the shade.






--RgNet 13:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Yup, I saw the same thing, yay for DVR. I'm going to put this in the main article, as it is definitely Jacob. -- MacAddct1984 15:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Personally, it does look like Locke (albeit with hair) to me. Could Jacob be a future or alternate timeline Locke? Applejuicefool 16:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, since Ben can see Jacob, I think Ben would have made a much bigger deal about Locke if that were true. -- MacAddct1984 16:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
My thoughts: Ben DID make a big deal about Locke. He said Locke is very special. He took Locke out to the mass grave and shot him. Perhaps Ben is afraid of Jacob because as Jacob he is unkillable. He realizes Locke is a younger version of Jacob, and shoots him to do away with Jacob. Applejuicefool 16:16, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
From the hair you can tell it's not Locke as Locke is already bald. If you look at the line of the forehead and hair and the color, it looks like Jacob may actually be an older Ben. As is mentioned below, Jacob is the Ghost in a Christmas Carol and we already know that the experiments have caused a time anomoly with Desmond when the hatch exploded. Could Jacob be Ben's future? Ben is seemingly centric to the island and it's powers, his mother died in childbirth and now every pregnant woman dies. Ben needs spinal surgery, a spinal surgeon "falls from the sky", everybody who survived the crash has the same problems or issues Ben has - problems with their fathers, murderers, con men. Also note that Jacob ONLY speaks to Ben and can only be seen by Ben. When the cabin catches fire, Jacob instantly puts it out, not wanting Ben or Locke in danger. My theory is that Ben conducted some kind of experiments, using the Dharma records, bringing ppl he needed to the island. They went wrong, creating the black smoke and causing a time anomoly. The Others clearly dont age either, where as the Dharma corpses and Ben have done.

[edit] Benjamin's relationship to Jacob

In the Bible, Benjamin is also the son of Jacob btw. Though we've clearly see that Roger Linus died and stayed dead. Though i'm sure theres some meaning in it, Benjamin also being the apparent favorite son Jacob in the Bible. Could Jacob be in fact some kind of menifestation of the island itself? making Ben a "son of the island". He claimed to have been born there which was a lie though.

With some spellings Benjamin can also mean "son of days", implying old age.

I think that in The Bible, Jacob's favorite son was Joseph, not Benjamin. But Benjamin was Jacob's last son, and I wonder if that is supposed to parallel the fact that on Lost the Others can't have kids anymore. Is Ben supposed to be the last of the Others? -- Shaheenjim 04:03, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alpert

Would it be appropriate to mention in the article that Alpert doesn't seem to age while Ben ages from Sterling Beaumon to Michael Emerson? Applejuicefool 15:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It may qualify as original research... It certainly looked like he didn't age, but we don't really know, maybe he aged slowly or something. -- MacAddct1984 16:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
When Ben was talking to him near the start of the episode and mentioned that it was his birthday, didn't he make some quip like "You remember what birthdays are, right?" possibly implying that Alpert doesn't age? Cheesehead Dave 19:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Ah, very good point, I didn't even think about that. -- MacAddct1984 19:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jacob's name

I was just jumping around on Wikipedia and it turns out the ghost in Charles Dickens', A Christmas Carol, is named Jacob Marley. He was the one who organized the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future to help out Scrooge. This isn't particularly relevant to the episode article, but it may be where the name comes from, as the show seems to have a habit of drawing from literary characters for names. -- MacAddct1984 16:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

You could have something there, especially if the time anomaly theory turns out to be true. I've always associated Jacob with the Israelite patriarch, son of Isaac, the one who stole the birthright from Esau, and who wrestled with the angel. I don't know if any of these references will turn out to be relevant. Applejuicefool 16:39, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Interestingly the Israelite Jacobs first son was Benjamin, whos mother died in childbirth
Benjamin was Jacob's last son, not first. But yeah, I suspect it's a biblican reference, rather than a scroogicle reference. -- Shaheenjim 03:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, I'm guessing Jacob is based on the Israelite, considering the biblical references laced through the series. Though, considering the references to Charles Dicken's stories, it could be either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RgNet (talk • contribs) 08:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Portland, Maine, or Portland, Oregon?

Which is it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.40.53.39 (talk) 02:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

I wondered the same thing, but they never said. -- MacAddct1984 04:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm GUESSING that its the same one which Juliet lived in, and if that was ever stated, then thats which Portland it is. Considering the fact that Portland is (if I remember correctly) where that company which is being used as a front for the others is located.
--RgNet 08:47, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mikhail's Death (or not) explained...

Was anyone a bit disapponted by the fact that Mikhail's apparent death was not so because "the pylons were not set to a lethal level." ?

All that blood squirting out of the ears for nothing. Oh well... he has to be alive for something big I guess. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Supersword (talk • contribs) 15:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

I think theres something more. He was lying because Locke was there, theres another reason for it i think
I do not think Mikhail knew Locke was there, since he was surprised when he saw him. Also, Patchy is cool :D. --70.140.22.6 00:30, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ben and the lamp

Did anyone notice that Ben went into Jacob's house with a lamp in his hand, lamp that later felt from the table and broke also turning fire into that place ... After Locke gets out from the house, Ben is coming also out from the house with the lamp unbroken in his hand!!! So, either this is a filming mistake or that scene that happend was somehow only in Locke's imagination and the lamp didn't broke at all?

[edit] Jacob is black smoke.

Jacob is the black smoke thats been changing forms and killing people. :o

[edit] Beer can and watch too modern

The beer can that Roger opens in the van is the current type (shape) of beer cans, however I guess they were only introduced in the mid- or late 90's. The time he killed his father must happened in sometime in the early 80's (The Orientation films were dated 1980).--86.132.200.127 15:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe Dharma were trialing the new style beer cans ;) AdamHorn 20:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
See my note about Ben's watch in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.79.122.92 (talk) 22:39, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Watch

Seconds before Ben kills his father, he is seen checking the time occasionally. Then a close-up on his watch shows that he is wearing a Timex Indiglo watch. But that type of watch was introduced in 1992 only 12 years before the Oceanic 815 crash.

I've edited and then removed this section, as it is quite pointless. The time frame is roughly correct, when Ben arrived in the 1970s or eariy 1980s, and killed his father in the mid 1990s or so. -- Matthead  Discuß   10:49, 30 January 2008 (UTC)