Talk:The Lonely God

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Contents 1 Vote 2 Monument 3 Smacks of OR 4 Lead 5 Deletion 6 More than just a secret

[edit] Vote

I think this should be left as is for the time being and not merged. It may play out to be something bigger, and it would have to be 'unmerged' again if that were the case. Let's wait and see, mm? Zevemiel 14:43, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep The Doctor being a 'lonely god' and the messages leading Rose to be the Bad Wolf are completely unrelated; you might as well be comparing them both to the references to Torchwood, heh. Phil 17:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep The Bad Wold and the Lonely God are unrelated topics, other than both being themes from the new Doctor Who series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.1.146.242 (talk • contribs) 19:43, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Woah, slow down. I only added the merge tag this morning, there is no need to start voting yet. Wikipedia works on consensus, not by voting over every little change, and the topic has only been discussed by three people! My rationale for merging is that it is by no means clear that this will be an arc phrase for the 2006 series, and like the other possible arc words it should go to the Bad Wolf article. Torchwood is more than just a recurring phrase, it is evidently a central theme and plot-point with its own series; Bad Wolf by contrast is only a phrase, albeit one which plays a pivotal role in the 2005 series. --Kwekubo 20:33, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

How about merging it with the bad wolf article, and renaming that one into something a bit more generic. Like Motifs in post 2005 Doctor Who series (don't really like 'post 2005', but this is just an example).

'Keep' Why don't we give it till the end of this season? If the references amount to nothing, then we'll all have our answer, and it'll be fodder for gallifreyone.net. If not, then we'll have the substance with which to expand the article into something worth reading.

While you're right, there's nothing to the article presently, I think that's cause the article is limited to times when people use the phrase "the lonely god" rather than the leitmotiv of religion (and the Doctor's place in it) throughout this season. Certainly the most recent two parter (Impossible Planet and Satan Pit) speak to that. We might even go back to "the parting of the ways," to talk about the Supreme Dalek's description of himself as god, and by contrast, the Doctor as Satan.

Going all over the place here, but my posting boils down to two points: 1) that while speculation over the story arc is really just that - speculation, that the large

In breaking with the traditional serialized format of the old Doctor Who, the new Who also has created much more connected, seasonal spanning stories. Maybe with exception of The Key to Time, but that has it's own article too. Now, the 2005 season had 2 clear motifs; the Time War, and Bad Wolf. These are storylines that can not comfortably, and comprehensively be described in any single episode/multi-part episode article, and indeed both of these have articles to describe the threads over an entire season.

Since this seems to be something inherent in the way they have chosen to set up the structure of the revival of this show, as much as multi-part serials where for the old Who, I propose we make a catch all article for them. I'll see if I can make something in my sandbox to show what I mean.

Normally, one would do this in the main article for the show (Doctor Who), but that one already pretty big. It would just clutter it up, and shift the focus too much to the new seasons, for a show that already has 27 seasons before those. --Codemonkey 14:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, very (very!),rough example of what I mean here: User:Codemonkey/personal sandbox. Feel free to edit it, if you are so inclined. --Codemonkey 14:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

That might be a good idea. I'm not sure of the best name (Recurring motifs in Doctor Who, 2005–?) but such a page could incorporate vague themes like the Doctor's loneliness as well as more concrete things like Torchwood, Bad Wolf and the Time War. I don't know whether Bad wolf references in Doctor Who would be best merged into this hypothetical article, or if it would serve as a "parent" to Bad Wolf references in Doctor Who, Time War (Doctor Who) and Torchwood.

However, I'm also concerned that the "motifs" article could become a magnet for original research, and I'm not sure how best to avoid it. Hmmm... —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:50, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep As per above two completely unrelated topics (Gnevin 17:47, 25 May 2006 (UTC))

• Delete, but certainly don't merge. The current series has not finished and trying to explain the unresolved lonely god story arc is mere speculation, not encyclopaedic. At least there is nothing to suggest it is the same subject as the Bad wolf. Incidentally, the 'Discuss' link on the merge notices for both pages point to different places, so discussion about the merge proposal is fractured. -- Jon Dowland 10:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• OK, so the second series is about three-quarters of the way through and there's no clear sign that this is an ongoing theme worthy of its own article. I reccomend we turn this into a redirect to Doctor (Doctor Who), as suggested below. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 22:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• I say Keep, but definitely don't redirect rather than merge. I can see merging it into a general 'Themes in Doctor Who' article, but it's interesting and in fact I found it when I was looking for analysis of the Lonely God theme. Which is the sort of thing wikipedia is for. -- tavella, June 16.

• keep ::::Why don't we give it till the end of this season? If the references amount to nothing, then we'll all have our answer, and it'll be fodder for gallifreyone.net. If not, then we'll have the substance with which to expand the article into something worth reading.

While you're right, there's nothing to the article presently, I think that's cause the article is limited to times when people use the phrase "the lonely god" rather than the leitmotiv of religion (and the Doctor's place in it) throughout this season. Certainly the most recent two parter (Impossible Planet and Satan Pit) speak to that. We might even go back to "the parting of the ways," to talk about the Supreme Dalek's description of himself as god, and by contrast, the Doctor as Satan.

Going all over the place here, but my posting boils down to two points: 1) that while speculation over the story arc is really just that - speculation, that the large number of references to religion in this and last season are neither speculative nor irrelevant. 2) This article should reflect that, in some other way besides a list of times someone has said god in the same sentence as "doctor who."Jahenderson 03:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Monument

Could someone tell me where this comes from?

Russell T. Davies has written that the Face's message is four words long. This could tie into the message written on a monument to the Time War on a distant planet, upon which, under an image of a lone survivor walking away, the message "You are not alone" has been scratched, perhaps indicating that the Doctor] was not the sole survivor of the conflict, and there are other Time Lords out there.

I've seen all the episodes so far, but not encountered this. And if it is genuine, please, have some warning up for the poor souls, like me, who don't want to be spoiled. --Codemonkey 22:28, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The "You are not alone" message comes from a piece that Russell T. wrote for the 2006 Doctor Who Annual. I'll dig up my copy and edit the text to give the appropriate attribution, even though I'm not sure whether this page is a necessary one... —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. The new series has turned me into a fan, and it would've bothered me not knowing where it was from. Now I can look it up. :) --Codemonkey 23:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Anyhow, a word has been running throughout the latest series of Doctor Who which is Torchwood. In the second episode, Tooth And Claw, Queen Victoria says at the end "Torchwood castle must be burnt to the ground" and in School Reunion when Mickey is trying to hack into the mainframe it says 'Torchwood error' and in Rise Of The Cybermen when the Doctor and Rose are posing as caterers Pete goes off to another person and says "Hello. How's Torchwood?" So it is quite clear that a definite message has been running throughout the series. Maybe there's more, I don't know.

[edit] Smacks of OR

Section title sums it up. Largely speculative and not what I would put in an encyclopedia. At best, depending on the way the series pans out it will end up as an article which would have been better called List of Doctor Who Episodes that contain the phrase "lonely god".GraemeLeggett 12:36, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Or, for consistency, List of Lonely God references in Doctor Who...

At any rate, I don't feel this is a theme of enough consistency to rate an article; the best approach would be a mention in Tenth Doctor. Radagast 20:36, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lead

"The Lonely God is a recurring name" - surely if it's only the Face of Boe in New Earth who uses this, it's not a recurring name at all? —Whouk (talk) 14:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, from a CBBC article:

"Theories have been going around on Doctor Who fansites, with two particular ones in pole position. The first being something involving the Moon. A green Moon was the symbol of the hospital in New Earth. In Tooth and Claw, obviously the Moon played a big part. And great shots of the Moon in School Reunion.

As a theory it sounds great - but when I put it to Doctor Who executive producer Russell T Davies, he gives it a two word response. "Absolutely wrong!"

Well, that told me then!

He goes on to explain that he has heard about this theory, but that apart from Torchwood there are no themes secretly linking the stories. Ah then, I counter - what about the 'pride comes before a fall theory,' didn't he mention that in a magazine interview?

Russell's answer is different this time. "Nonsense!" he says. A response to a question that's been seized upon and built up into something that isn't even there. So back to square one, then. Although the Cybermen are a kind of theme, I suppose. They appear in these episodes and in the final two."

That's strange, because I've noticed a recurring God buzzword in pretty much all the Doctor Who episodes so far. What with the "lonely God" theme mentioned in the first episode, God mentioned in Tooth and Claw, the concept of the Krillitanes trying to become Gods in School Reunion, Lumic playing God in "Rise of the Cybermen", (unsure as of the 2nd part of the serial), and of course the mention of "God save the Queen" in the Idiot's Lantern. "The Girl in the Fireplace" is the only exception, of course, where only Angels and Demons were mentioned.

There's some theme relating to the buzzword, God, running throughout the entire series. It, of course, all relates to the title of the very last episode, Doomsday. Wolf ODonnell 15:30, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion

Personally, I think this article should be deleted as a piece of totally non-noteworthy and entirely speculative fan-wank. PaulHammond 19:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Harsh but true. The article is far from factual. "The Lonely God is a recurring name of mythic resonance used to describe the Doctor from the television series Doctor Who through the 2006 season" is simply false. There has been one, count it, one use of this name. This is quite separate from whether the Doctor is offered "the power of the God-Maker" or whether he's called "lonely angel". There is nothing recurring here but your own hopeful imaginations!

Yes, he's lonely, yes, he's got a secret. So what? It's always been this way. If you want to throw together bits of trivia, use a fan site, not a Wikipedia article.

I notice that Ka Faraq Gatri redirects to the main Doctor article. Any reason why this article shouldn't, other than being about a New and Exciting Aspect of the New Series That's Happening Under Our Noses? 82.92.119.11 20:15, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I think I've got to agree. There's really nothing to constitute an article here. Redirecting to Doctor (Doctor Who) seems like the best option to me. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought I'd already replied but apparently not. I entirely agree though - turn it into a redirect. —Whouk (talk) 21:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More than just a secret

Isn't this in reference to the question "Doctor Who?"