Talk:The Lone Ranger
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[edit] A Few items that ought to have been included in the article
The article points out that some folks have suggested that Tonto was of Apache origin and that there are hints in the radio version that he was Pottawatomi. Correct! But we should also mention that there are occasional references in the TV version to his having been Cheyenne. Indeed, while watching the TV show as a kid, I and all my fellow LR fans were under the impression that he was Cheyenne.
Also: On the radio version, the Lone Ranger and Tonto always called EACH OTHER Kemo Sabe.
One more remark: I grew up with a very positive image of Native Americans. I thought Native Americans (well, we called them Indians) were cool. I credit the Lone Ranger TV show for that. I dug Tonto.
Tom 129.93.29.10 06:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
You are correct that the Lone Ranger and Tonto called EACH OTHER Kemo Sabe on the radio version, but only until sometime in the late 1940s. In later episodes, as in the TV show, only Tonto called the LR Kemo Sabe. --GrouchoRoss (talk) 04:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Retconning the horses
The discussion of the story of how the heroes obtained their horses sounds much like what is called in the world of comic books a retcon – a rewrite of the fictional "past events" of characters to make them fit their universe's current "realities". Anyone know if this is the case here? Of course, I really don't remember the radio show, just the TV one. Rlquall 06:05, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
None the less I still, after all these years find the story of the horses rather moving.
Moved from article:
It is well known that George W. Trendle did NOT create the Lone Ranger and the continuing characters. This erroneous idea originated when Trendle bought out Striker's interest in The Lone Ranger show for a tiny amount of money and a long term contract. After that event, Trendle took public credit for the character. It is simply not true. --Calton | Talk 00:11, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
redirected Kemosabe to The Lone Ranger Themindset 19:58, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Another Fran Striker series
If you read the Lone Ranger books, you may like another adventure series written by Fran Striker: the Tom Quest series. Like the Lone Ranger, it's a juvenile series for boys but it's really very well written and a fun read. --FWDixon 11:39, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] John Reid?
Is it true that John Reid was *never* mentioned? I know it's not impossible for so many sources to be wrong, but at least two sources pinpoint a 1953 anniversary radio broadcast (retelling the origin) as specifically identifying the ranger as John Reid, *plus* reviews/credits for the 1981 movie The Legend of the Lone Ranger all mention John Reid. I'll try to check the radio broadcast, which I have on tape, but if anyone else can or would care to check on this (see the movie, for example), it would be greatly appreciated. Aleal 00:01, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The name John was never mentioned on the radio program or the tv show. Anyone who knew who the Lone Ranger really was referred to him only as "Reid." A book was published in 1966 about old-time radio and mentioned the name "John." That is the first known mention of the name. Since then the name John Reid has appeared in the liner notes of a 1978 children's record album, the 1981 "Legend of the Lone Ranger" movie, and, most recently, the 2006 comic book series from Dynamite Entertainment. [1]Michael.douglas.dean
[edit] Kemosabe = Quien no sabe?
I heard a story years ago which attempted to explain the meaning of the name "Kemosabe." According to this story, Tanto's tribe spoke a pidgin version of Spanish, learned from Spanish priests. Tonto's name was "Aguila Brava" or Brave Eagle. After he had known the Lone Ranger for a while, he started calling him "Kemosabe" and told him it meant "faithful friend." The Lone Ranger had the name inscribed on all his possessions, including his saddle and his boots. While riding through a small village one day, an old man started laughing at the Lone Ranger and pointing to his saddle. When asked what was so funny, the old man said, "Kemosabe means 'he who knows nothing.'" This was a mispronunciation of the Spanish "Quien no sabe nada" which is a question meaning "Who knows nothing?" Upon hearing this, the Lone Ranger was furious. He told the man that Kemosabe meant "faithful friend." The old man said that whoever had told him that was stupid ("tonto" in Spanish). The Lone Ranger confronted Aguila Brava and called him "Tonto." From that day, Aguila Brava accepted the name as punishment for playing a prank on his "faithful friend."
It's probably not true, but the coincidence of Tonto's name being Spanish and the similarity between Kemosabe and Quien No Sabe are enough to make it worth mentioning.
[edit] Dan Reid revealed he was the same from the LR in a 1947 of the GH show
A 1947 episode had Dan Reid reveal to his son their relationship to the illustrious man of the Old West.
[edit] Dan Reid's Horse Victor
Many (>40) years ago, a friend asked me, "What was the name of the Lone Ranger's nephew's horse?" I didn't know and he told me that it was Victor, and that the Lone Ranger's nephew was Dan Reid. I've been repeating this since. This was from the radio show, and we old fogeys are rapidly losing our memories. Is this all correct? Bill Jefferys (talk) 01:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The Lone Ranger was not lone!
If it was the Lone Ranger and Tonto, he wasn't lone! Tonto counts as a person, surely? 86.131.28.45 23:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
He was the last of the Ranger group killed in the canyon ambush, hence the 'Lone' Ranger.
Precisely. Tonto was not a Ranger. Reid was the "Lone" Ranger, not the "Alone" Ranger. And don't forget their horses. Wahkeenah 20:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
In the first few radio shows, the Lone Ranger WAS alone. But that doesn't work very well in radio, so Tonto was created to give the LR someone to talk to. --GrouchoRoss (talk) 04:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] "¿Quien no sabe?"
Most everything about "kemo sabe" in the article either makes sense, is common knowledge, or is easily verified. To equate that phrase to "quien no sabe" sounds like guesswork. If you can find a reference to it, other than sites that mirror this one, cite it. Wahkeenah 14:19, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Well written
This article is very well written and fun to read. There's something at the beginning that says it's not "formal tone" appropriate to "encyclopedias." If by "formal tone" they mean "extremely boring" then they're right. This article is great and should not be rewritten to satisfy those who have no fun in life. 69.227.3.212 23:02, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Horses' Origins
I added the info on Tonto's horse, White Feller, and Scout's origin from the radio episodes "Four Day Ride" and "Border Dope Smuggling." I don't know the accuracy of the other information, about Silver returning from Wild Horse Canyon with Scout. I have not heard any such episode, but I haven't heard every episode, so I left it for someone else to decide. The story of Silver's origin is accurate, except the episode that aired September 9, 1938 was "Trouble at Fort Gardner," and it did not deal with Silver's origin. Michael.douglas.dean
I have a vague recollection from when I was very young about Silver returning with Scout. Perhaps that is why I was moved reading it just now.
[edit] "Inappropriate Tone?" and "John?"
I, too, see nothing overly informal about the tone, and further state that I see no significant difference in that regard between this and the Green Hornet article, which carries no such note.
As for the claim of the Ranger's first name, I have an audio tape of a radio retelling of the origin, narrated by Fred Foy and therefore reasonably late in the run (the original airdate is not specified), and neither brother's first name is stated, and the same is true for the three-part TV series opener that also tells the origin (Fall 1949). Indeed, in the latter case dialogue is somewhat clumsy in order to avoid using them (or at least the Ranger's). I am the one that added the statement that a Fran Striker obit and a Gold Key comic book both called the younger Reid "Dan," and saw both with my own eyes. The bottom line point here is that the only thing that "John" and "Dan" have going for them to be more official than, say, the names used in the WB network TV-movie is the fact they are tied to the surname "Reid" which WAS established by the Lone Ranger's creators way back when, but those first names themselves are as much after-the-fact creations as the others, and this is how any academic reference work should describe the situation. Ted Watson 21:27, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Conflicting claims in Fran Striker's obituary & here on Wikipedia
According to Fran Striker's obituary in the New York Times, he started "Lone Ranger" in Buffalo for WBEN (misidentified by the NYT as WBER), where it was first broadcast, and then sold it to WXYZ. This doesn't square with your account. Comments? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Guybrarian (talk • contribs) 02:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
Also, the Fran Striker article here on Wikipedia gives the details of the first broadcast in Buffalo. I stand corrected--the station misidentified by the NYT was not WBEN but WEBR.
- I don't think the NYTimes obit is sufficient proof that "Lone Ranger," under that name, was already broadcast elsewhere. Then and now, even the NYT has made massive errors or poorly sourced info on obituaries when dealing with creative issues. While there will no doubt continue to be some ambiguity about the Lone Ranger's "creation," Dick Osgood's book WXYZ Wonderland, which includes accounts from Striker's family and just about all sides on the issue, discusses how Striker's earlier series was a "covered wagon days" serial. Many of the plots were in fact recycled for The Lone Ranger, but the actual *figure* of a masked hero called the Lone Ranger, post dates it. Citation would help the article, though (I admit, I'm too lazy and busy with other things to do it right now myself). -- Aleal 04:14, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
-
- Actually, partially amending that, there's also this NY Times obit of actor John L. Barrett. It gives him credit for being the first Lone Ranger, but on "Covered Wagon Days," not a series of its own. Hmmm. This is all new to me, and seems to recquire more research. User:Movieresearch added the claim to the Striker page, but his sources aren't clear. Things for someone to ponder. -- Aleal 04:23, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "The Lone Ranger" TV & Radio Series vs. "The Lone Ranger", the character
This article states that "The Lone Ranger was an American long-running early radio and television show created by George W. Trendle (with considerable input from station staff members), and developed by writer Fran Striker."
I feel that this article needs to be split into two different articles: one for the Radio & TV series, and one for the character himself. --Schmendrick 16:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hi-yo Silver origin?
I heard years ago that the original Lone Ranger had to use this call because the actor couldn't whistle, which was supposed to be the way he would call for the horse. Is this true? --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 12:34, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
- I haven't heard of that, but it strikes me as unlikely, especially if it's supposed to be an actor on radio. If they wanted a whistle, why not just get someone else to do it? (Maybe there is a reason.) 140.147.160.78 22:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)Stephen Kosciesza
Is it "hi-yo" or "Hi-ho"? The article uses both. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.149.253.69 (talk) 12:19, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] This is supposed to be a sentence?!
Some later radio reference books, beginning with The Big Broadcast in the 1970s, erroneously claimed that the two brothers' first names were John and Dan, respectively; however, use of their first names was deliberately avoided on both the radio and television programs, while at least one newspaper obituary upon Fran Striker's 1961 death and a 1964 Gold Key Comics retelling of the origin both stated that the Lone Ranger's given name was "Dan Reid" it must be acknowledged that the 1981 big-screen version, The Legend of the Lone Ranger, gave the names of John and Dan a degree of official standing, although the completely different names found in the 2003 TV-movie/unsold series pilot undercuts that; in any event, the name of Captain Reid's son, and the Ranger's nephew, a later character who became a sort of juvenile sidekick to the Masked Man, was Dan Reid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.52.235.101 (talk) 14:45, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
- That was my work and I have now fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out so I'd know I needed to. Ted Watson (talk) 21:42, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Our work is done
Is is true that the Lone Ranger often used the words "our work is done" or similar at the end of TV or radio episodes?
JohnYeadon (talk) 12:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:SupermanLoneranger.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 08:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Original research in The Legend of the Lone Ranger section
I've tagged that section with original research because there are no citations for the reception the film was met with. It looks interesting how fans reacted so I hope the citation requirement can be fulfilled. Its probably necessary to rewrite the description, excluding such words as "lame" and qualifying the reception of fans which now includes "extremely outraged" and "utter outrage". If these demonstrations are well-known, there will be sources stating as much. Xndr (talk) 16:59, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
- While I agree with your point, last month I put a "citation needed" tag on that passage, which seems more appropriate to the situation—if less apparent. BTW, I moved your tag to under the section title before I came here, not to say that I would have just deleted it on these grounds otherwise. Ted Watson (talk) 21:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
-
- This section is indeed written entirely from a fan's viewpoint and needs to be rewritten. I have left the opening and moved the rest to here as it is mostly unsourced original research (writer seems to believe that simply writing "Several existing accounts" suffices as providing sources. SteveCoppock (talk) 17:32, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Many fans were also quite upset at the way in which the film depicted the events in the life and career of the Lone Ranger, blatantly disregarding much of the existing background material, which is considered by many to be canon, and changing it. Several important events in the background of the Lone Ranger were completely contrary to the well-established and accepted background material. These included, events such as Tonto teaching the Lone Ranger how to shoot guns. In the original concept, Reid was already an established Ranger and considerable marksman. In the film, however, the Lone Ranger has little or no experience with guns and proves to be a terrible shot. When Tonto witnesses what a bad shot Reid is, he immediately introduces him to a silver bullet, telling him that using silver bullets would allow him to hit his target because silver is pure. Of course, he then becomes a perfect marksman. In this treatment, the Lone Ranger seems like an ineffectual idiot without Tonto. The event in which the Lone Ranger and Silver meet is not only portrayed completely differently than in the radio and TV shows, but it is almost insulting to the fans. Again, Tonto is responsible for Silver and the Lone Ranger teaming up, and the Lone Ranger's initial attempts to ride and train the great white horse are nothing less than lame attempts at buffoonery. Perhaps, the most blatant example of the film's disregard for well-established canonical background information is obvious when John Reid is introduced in the film's beginning, not as an established Texas Ranger as he was in all previous versions of the Lone Ranger saga, but, instead, he is a young attorney, newly returned from school back East and opening his law practice in the same town that is home to his brother, a captain in the Texas Rangers. It is only after his brother and the other Texas Rangers are killed in the Cavandish ambush (all except John, of course, who accompanied them after being handed a Ranger badge in town by his brother, just before the pursuit of the bandits begins) that Reid wants justice and to avenge his brother's death by becoming the Lone Ranger (which is ironic, considering in the film he was not an authentic Texas Ranger; this aspect of the film was reflected in the 2003 TV movie/series pilot). In the film, Reid has no clue how to go about achieving his new goal, and, therefore, it is up to Tonto to teach him and show him the way. Many fans were extremely outraged by this film and, especially at the ridiculous narration in rhyme that producers apparently felt was needed to help tell the story, fearing that visuals, dialog, and actual plot lines couldn't do it alone. The outpouring of anger, disappointment, and utter outrage at the film among Lone Ranger fans and aficionados, was great. One particularly well-known demonstration of that outrage took place in Greensboro, NC, in 1981, during the very first showing of the film on opening day in the local theater. Many moviegoers still recall watching the film when an enraged fan abruptly stood up, provoking protests and demands for him to shut up and sit down. During the film, this fan passionately denounced the film, as well as those persons responsible for creating it. Several existing accounts contend that the fan's impassioned speeches about Klinton Spilsbury being nothing more than merely 'just another guy in a mask,' and not 'The Real Lone Ranger' and how the real Lone Ranger was not being depicted properly in this film, actually became more entertaining and engaging to the audience than the film itself. Many of the moviegoers were ignorant of the original concepts of the Lone Ranger prior to the viewing of the film, but, upon leaving the theatre, confessed a strong desire to learn more about the character's pre-film background and history by listening to and watching some of the old radio shows and early televeision series episodes, respectively; and all strictly because of this unknown fan's impassioned speech.[citation needed]
[edit] Lark Cigarettes Commercial
This whole sentence:
- "During the 1960's, a series of television commercials for Lark cigarettes featured the famous Lone Ranger theme, as a moving sign, held by a man atop a vehicle, urged people on the street to "Show us your Lark pack". In a spoof of these spots, an ad for Jeno's Pizza Rolls asks party goers to "Show us your pizza roll pack". The Jeno's spokesman is interrupted by an executive type man, lighting up a cigarette (and presumably carrying a pack of Larks), who says to the Jeno's spokesman. "You now, I've been meaning to talk to you people about that music you're using." Suddenly a gloved-hand slaps the cigarette smoker on the shoulder; the camera pulls back to reveal that the gloved-hand belongs to The Lone Ranger (played by Clayton Moore) with Tonto (played by Jay Silverheels) standing beside him, as the Ranger says to the cigarette smoker, "You know, I've been meaning to speak to you people about the same thing." Jay Silverheels then offers his 'kemo-sabe' a Pizza Roll, but the Lone Ranger, cooly and without even looking at him or the pizza rolls, declines with a simple hand-gesture. It was one of the most brilliantly conceived and executed TV ads during that period and it was as effective with consumers as it was popular among fans of Lark cigarettes, Jeno Pizza Rolls, and, of course The Lone Ranger and Tonto (as well as Moore and Silverheels)."
Altough interesting seems a little too fan-boyish in my opinion, it could be improved somehow.Vicco Lizcano (talk) 18:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC) (Hey! Listen!)
[edit] Kemosabe
How much sense does it make to redirect Kemosabe here if the word isn't even mentioned (never mind explained) in the article? -- Kamagurka (talk) 14:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
