Talk:The Kingston Trio

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Contents

[edit] The K-Trio and caps

Here are three reasons why the "the" should not be capitalized:

1.) In New York Times articles about the Kingston Trio, for instance, they always use the lower case except at the beginning of the sentence. As in, "Joan Baez and the Kingston Trio are well-known singers."

2.) Moreover, here in Wiki, Wiki rules are followed, not Web site rules or internal rules of the person/item being written about. Go to the Time Magazine article and you will see a long argument about how Wiki treats Time Mag. Time itself calls itself Time MAGAZINE or TIME Magazine, I forget which. After it was argued about for a long time, it was agreed that Wiki calls it Time Magazine, to meet Wiki convention.

3.) Furthermore, and just as important to me, I went to my collection of old K-Trio albums and picked up 6 of them at random. Two of them had no text on the back cover. Of the others, however, THE KINGSTON TRIO BACK IN TOWN, says "In San Francisco a few years ago the Kingston Trio made a swift...." SOMETHIN' ELSE says: "The new sound of the Kingston Trio...." From NEW FRONTIER: "...a new batch of ballads that reflect the Kingston Trio approach...." And from COLLEGE CONCERT: "The voice you hear introducing this live performance by the Kingston Trio is that of...." Case closed, as far as I am concerned. Hayford Peirce 18:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Then why is it that on their website they use the caps "The Kingston Trio?" What ever they may have used for their name in the past, they use all caps at the begining of each word. --Assawyer 19:20, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Interesting discussion! The San Francisco Chronicle, sort of the Trio's "home paper", used a capital T in this 1976 article: [1] but used a small t in this 2006 article: [2], which seems to support Hayford Pierce. (I'll have to check my ratty old "Last Month of the Year" album tonight - see if it has any text!)(Later note: It also uses a small "t" like the examples above)
As for wiki style, it's true we don't follow every marketing whim about capital letters and whatnot , but we do follow the legal name of the entity, which sometimes includes goofy names such as eBay. If the T is capital in their official name, we should capitalize it. If it's not, then the article should be changed to just Kingston Trio, although it's such a hassle fixing redirects that I hope it doesn't come to that. - DavidWBrooks 19:50, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popularity

Another reason for the Trio's popularity was the fact that their songs could be sung without antagonising middle-aged parents. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.138.131.19 (talk) 15:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Importance Rating Of "Low"

The article is definitely not "important" in terms of "roots music" - which (and here comes a big IMHO) is a commercial/record company/radio format designation that has unfortunately been adapted by a significant number of professional musicians who have no roots in "roots" - rather like NYC John Cohen or Ramblin' Jack trying to become what June Carter or Doug Kershaw or Gabby Pahinui were born to be.

Even at that - the Kingston Trio doesn't belong in this category/project. Its success MUST be mentioned in the context of "folk" because as adamant as they were (and they were) that they were not "folksingers" and did not want to be identified as such, though they were marketed by Capitol records as exactly that, their unprecedented success literally created a mass market for acoustic and folk-type music and opened doors for musicians that extended far beyond the tiny clubs and venues in NYC and SF where most acoustic music lived prior to their arrival.

But the main article belongs in "American Popular Music" or a related category. The group gets an appropriate nod in the long and controversial Wiki article on "folk music." But they deserve recognition for their importance - which is not to "roots" music. Sensei48 05:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)Sensei48

[edit] Preliminary Additions

This article is an excellent start and covers major points well. I believe, though, that it needs at least three more brief sections - on the extent of their phenomenal popularity early on, the controversy that their approach to music engendered, and their lasting if under-appreciated influence. For the moment, though, I am simply replacing this good but incomplete discography with the one I developed for the Bob Shane page, correcting some minor errors, and expanding the YouTube section. I'm also moving the album cover representing the Stewart trio to the album section, replacing it with one from the KT website that Bob Shane gave me permission to use, as noted in the license. Sensei48 05:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)Sensei48

I'm also wondering about the "Trivia" section in terms of importance/appropriateness. "Other Songs" needs to be amended, since many of those listed are more primarily associated with other groups. More on that later. Sensei48 06:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)Sensei48

[edit] Undoing The Dave Guard Edit; General Notes

I reverted the "Dave Guard, who recruited..." to its original form because the statement is misleading at best. Though I think Guard was a kind of genius and the moving force behind the KT, the only objective sourcable facts on the matter are quite different. In high school (Punahou in Honolulu) Shane was a singer/musician and Guard a track star until Shane recruited Guard for a more formal performance in the Junior Carnival than the two had been doing at parties and luaus. Shane also taught Guard the rudiments of guitar. Both of these are supported by Elizabeth Wilson's interview with Guard himself that appeared in The Kingston Trio On Record (KingstonKorner, Inc., 1986) and part of which appears online at [3]

There are larger problems with scope and accuracy of the article, as there are to a lesser degree with the Wiki articles on the group's personnel, with the exception of the extensively revised entry I wrote over the summer on Bob Shane, which I intend to use as a base and model for future edits on the group and its players.

For example, DW Brooks comment on the "ephemera" of Voyle Gilmore's recording technique of double voicing is most apt in a short general article of this nature - but an expanded and accurate explanation would be appropriate as a factor in the underappreciated significance to pop music history and the recording industry by this seminal group.Sensei48 15:27, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Kingstontriosnap.jpg

Image:Kingstontriosnap.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 05:08, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Kingstrio.jpg

Image:Kingstrio.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 05:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Kingstontriosnap.jpg

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BetacommandBot 20:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Kingstrio.jpg

Image:Kingstrio.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 20:50, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Instruments

The instruments played by the members of this group are important, and should be added to the article promptly. Badagnani (talk) 05:00, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Go for it! - DavidWBrooks (talk) 13:08, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jan. 24 edits

Aside from grammar/punctuation, copy editing, and citation requests (most of which will probably come from cited pages in the book listed), I've adjusted the various references sections according to WP:CITE, WP:SOURCE and MOS. "External links" are "for further reading" links ONLY, and not links used to support facts in the article (such as such basics and names and spellings, which the official site is for). No more than five or six are to be used. Where there are general references used in addition to footnotes, then a "Notes" or "Footnotes" section is broken out separately. Finally, only one link to a site is allowed, generally to the main page; additional links to interior pages is disallowed. Oh, and the YouTube link was a WP:COPYVIO. --24.215.162.198 (talk) 14:46, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

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