Talk:The Judd School

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pics? just a B Victuallers 11:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

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Contents

[edit] page name

Should this page be moved from The Judd School to Judd School? <KF> 23:07, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

No, the title of the school is 'The Judd School'. People will still find it if they search for 'Judd School'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.42.250.149 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 8 July 2005.

[edit] random chat

Edited twice since yesterday? Wasd the entry made not deemed suitable? And who is Halsteadk? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.165.83.216 (talk • contribs) 12:34, 14 July 2005.

A former pupil of the school! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Halsteadk (talk • contribs) Revision as of 20:43, 14 July 2005.
Ohhhhhh I see. Well im current meber and trust me, 10z is the best. WAY better than 12-3 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.165.83.217 (talk • contribs) 09:36, 18 July 2005.
Is that Keith Halstead???
After a career in the manufacturing industry Keith qualified as a Chartered Accountant with Ernst & Whinney in the City, before moving to Arthur Young´s Business Services Group.
A lengthy secondment to the Government´s Business in the Community developed a strong interest in owner-managed, and often struggling, businesses. He then moved to become a partner in two provincial firms with a varied general practice portfolio.
This you? You are my hero —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.165.83.216 (talk • contribs) 11:54, 18 July 2005.
Sadly not, he sounds pretty well paid - I'm a civil engineer. However, I was in 10Z a "few" years ago and have to agree with you - it is the best (apart from 12-2 of course, which I was in a couple of years later). :) But sadly Wikipedia is not for subjective information....... All the best --Halsteadk 21:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Advert?

Just out of interest, are we treating this page as some sort of advert for the school? And as such, is there supposed to be no criticism, flippancy or in jokes? - Elmsters

Perhaps read WP:NPOV... seems a pretty pointless question really. Djr_xi (Talk) 17:01, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

In which case, mentionning of the "Bring Back Keith" campaign is merely representing on the Judd School entry how the students feel about their new headmaster. If I specify that this is how most of the students feel, then surely that's NPOV, as I'm just including their views. I could also add, for balance, that most of the teachers seem to tolerate the new headmaster, while none of them speak of him with the same respect as they did of Keith.

By the same token, the entry about Prefects seems to have been removed for no reason. I think that the entry was accurate and not that slanted. The editing of the Music section to show represent the views of the Govpol department are in fact adding balance to the entry, by showing that these rennovations still ignore some of the school's other departments, and that they perhaps feel somewhat marginalised. Perhaps you could suggest how my edits are innapropriate exactly? - Elmsters

Hi Elmsters and firstly, welcome to Wikipedia. I can't speak for Djr_xi, but as the person who previously reverted most of the anonymous edit a few days ago (perhaps this was you?), I have no problems with what you've written today. The previous contribution was too skewed to a particular viewpoint and I didn't think the comments about the head boy were particularly useful - however, some of the info on prefects was, which I then edited back in to the article (I see you have now removed this and re-written it in the Sixth Form section - and added a lot more to it in the process). It is possible to write more or less the same thing and make it unacceptable due to bad style or a slanted point of view - I think if you compare the previous contribution with what you've written that's a good enough example.
Additionally, I think the fact that you are editing as a "named" user rather than anonymously gives a lot more credibility to your edits. If you look back through the history of this page you'll find quite a lot of anonymous edits which I can only guess are from pupils of the school in their lunchbreak or IT lessons - this has been further evidenced by fairly abusive edits from the same anonymous user at a similar time on the Skinners' School page!! Wikipedia as a whole suffers a lot from vandalism by mostly anonymous users, which you'll find are quickly reverted by registered users who add the pages they have a particular interest in to their "watched pages". This of course is not to say that all anonymous contributions should be treated like this until they have been checked!
Finally, in answer to the original question, no this page, as with others on this site, is definitely not supposed to be free advertising, but is supposed to be balanced and written in a reasonably formal tone. (There are websites such as the Knowhere Guide that are more of a free-for-all, and are hence not a lot of use beyond having a bit of a laugh. At Wikipedia a lot of people, myself not necessarily included, are working very hard to create something that is an authoritative source of freely available and editable information, something that you might in future want to use as a good source of research to rival information sources you would have to pay for - the Judd School page, or any other school page, shouldn't be an exception to that.) What is "reasonable" and "balanced" is of course down to personal opinion but I would say your new contributions are there or are very close with minor, arguably knit-picking tweaking, but the previous contributions weren't on the whole appropriate.
Finally, finally - it's really interesting to see the contributions on this page such as yours and from people who are obviously current pupils, and to see how the school has changed (or not changed) since I was a pupil 12 years ago! Halsteadk 14:26, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Giving my two cents, "Bring Back Keith" is either non-existant or a complete joke - nothing of the sort exists at any serious level at Judd. Secondly, the views of the GovPol dept. are irrelevant for an NPOV article a) because they are opinions, b) because they are tongue-in-cheek, c) because they are completely useless to an encyclopedic article. The "marginalisation" of the "Lawton's crew" is of scant importance to the school as a whole - it only concerns a small part of the sixth form. Finally, any references to respect given to Masters relative to Starling is a) unnecessary, b) unsubstantiated, c) impossible to confirm, d) POV, e) in my POV, untrue. The views of two teachers do not represent the whole school, and any suggestion of the such is POV and should not be in Wikipedia. Djr_xi (Talk) 19:21, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I am a pupil at the Judd School currently and I know that Keith Starling was a much loved and respected headmaster. The bring back Keith campaign is very real and at one point a banner was hung out of the Cohen building. The banner had written on it "Bring Back Starling." And that's my two cents.

[edit] Founding Year

Sorry mate - my bad. I just saw the drainpipes at school had 1896... i forgot we'd changed sites. Djr_xi 20:05, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Website address

Despite User:80.189.253.203 claiming to be fixing the links, and regardless of whether the site is going to move to that address (and regardless frankly of whether I particularly care about what the school does with its website!), the .org address currently goes to an out of date version of the website, which has broken links and displays the hosting company's name in the links. No exhaustive investigation needed, this is all apparent by looking at the first few links on the front page - the ".org.uk" site currently has two newer ones, and the letters page at ".org" is broken. Please do not change the links until the site has actually transferred to that address. With respect, I'm actually assuming this anon user has no real involvement with the school's website and is just trying it on - no website developer would want to direct any visitor to a non-live version of a website, for any amount of time. And trust me, a link from Wikipedia can generate a lot of visitors - you want them ending up at the right place! Halsteadk 19:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Headmaster - Maidstone Grammar

Please note that the rumour regarding the headmaster's move to MGS has been removed by the school, and I have removed their notification of this from the article itself - description/justification for edits should not be written into the article. Unreferenced, potentially contentious issues like this should not be added into articles in the first place anyway... Halsteadk 12:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Sixth form common room

Why was the section relating to the renovation of the 6th form common room removed?

[edit] STOPMASTERS Campaign

The STOPMASTERS Campaign was set up by the student body. The current headmaster, Robert Masters, recently joined the school and many of his ideas are too competitive for the nature of the school. They believe that his ideas are made to compete with the other local grammar school, St Olave's Grammar School. The students handed in a petition at one point for review and Robert Masters took it down & threw it away without consultation. This proves that, contrary to what he says, he doesn't listen to the student body. On a survey of a small group of people, 8 were against the changes & 3 were neutral. One site has been started which can be visited at:

http://pub35.bravenet.com/forum/2957698422/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MattyW Wiki (talk • contribs) 09:54, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

For inclusion in Wikipedia, articles and their content should be "notable". I'm going to argue that none of the "Timetable changes" section is relevant to Wikipedia as it has no real interest to anyone outside the school. If you think you know better than your headmaster how to run a school, then you should be posting your gripes elsewhere such as your discussion group, or if you're serious how about writing formally first to the head and then to your Local Education Authority if it's that bad. Certain elements of this section just look childish (eg "Mr." Masters, with the quotes) and serve to devalue the reputation of its pupils (i.e. you). Halsteadk 12:00, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I second that. Wikipedia is neutral point of view, but much of what has recently been contributed clearly is not. Furthermore, all content must be verifiable, and given the lack of reliable sources in this article, this is far from being the case. If it cannot be sourced, it should not be on Wikipedia. DJR (T) 12:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
What is a dicussion page for if not to discuss?
The discussion page is for discussion - not the article itself.Halsteadk 17:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

This section was re-added again today, and I have removed it. It is POV until you can prove that (far far) more than 8 students out of 920 (from a random sample, not your mates) are behind the campaign. If you don't believe that 8 out of 920 is statistically insignificant, go and speak to your maths teacher. Halsteadk 18:52, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV dispute [Timetable changes]

This part of the article clearly does not seem balanced. SuilSuil 08:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

SuilSuil
The information contained is accurate, but the head's reasons have not been given, so yes it is not balanced, but this will be resolved by adding to it, not removing it. Anyone brave enough to post his reasons? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Edmund1989 (talk • contribs) 16:18, 7 February 2007.
Unless the information is verifiable from reliable sources then the information is not valid for inclusion in Wikipedia. Even otherwise, all content must be neutral. DJR (T) 18:56, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


I've made some dramatic changes to the previous edit to remove bias. However, I expect that most of you will not be happy, so have a look at what I've changed and see what else ou think needs to be done. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Edmund1989 (talk • contribs) 17:28, 10 February 2007.
Given that the predominant content of that entire section is a) largely irrelevant in terms of encyclopaedic content, and b) is neither NPOV or verified, I've deleted and amended most of it. DJR (T) 00:25, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


After the section was totally removed, I returned it with the unencyclopaedic section removed. I maintain that the information is of interest and value in its basic form. (Edmund1989 15:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC))
(NB, for perspective, it wasn't me who removed the material.) The second sentence still needs citing though as it is something that is disputable, especially if you are implying/alleging that the staff are not behind the headmaster and are telling the students this! Without backup, an allegation of that nature cannot remain and I really doubt there is a problem with the professionalism of Judd's staff - one member of staff is I guess likely to let a comment slip at some point, they're only human, but this isn't sufficient to mention it as it is POV. Generally you would cite by linking to a local news article - if it isn't newsworthy that probably is because it isn't of sufficient relevance/interest outside Judd and therefore isn't appropriate for Wikipedia. A letter to parents discussing the problem would be suitable otherwise.
The first sentence is encyclopaedic, but not likely to be of much interest to most readers... (Note this whole issue isn't unprecedented - there was a similar change in the early 90s when Wednesdays changed to 9 periods resulting in a bizarre to-the-minute timetable IIRC - not sure if that changed back.) A more general comment on the article is that writers should also bare in mind that Judd is 100+ yrs old and it is inappropriate to have half the article detailing the last couple of years. Halsteadk 18:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This page should show all the curriculum changes

Many may want information on all the curriculum changes coming in in September, not just the number of periods in a day. I don't think they're on the school website, which makes it yet more important. Please do it, as you probably know more about them than me Telewatho 22:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Note for Telewatho on last edit: this was not a rumour and was admitted by Mr Masters, but obviously this cannot be verified as a fact (unless anyone was recording the meeting!)so it has to be treated as if it is not a fact. (Edmund1989 17:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC))

Really sorry about this but my email isnt working & i need 2 get this to school so could you please leave it here and i will take it off tomorrow? thanks, Barney Scott 11Y

Jupiter came here in a human disguise, and with his parent came Mercury the staff bearer having put down his wings (?). They approached a thousand homes, looking for a place to rest, but a thousand homes were closed with bolts; however one house received them, admittedly small, covered with straw and reeds from the marsh. But the pious old woman Baucis, of equal age to Philemon, had been joined in youthful years in that house. In that house they grew old together and by admitting their poverty and by bearing it with an even mind, they made light of it. Nor does it matter, that you should ask for masters or servants there. The two are the whole house: they both obey and order the same. Therefore when the dwellers of heaven arrived at this humble home, and lowered their heads to enter the low doorpost, the old man placed a couch for them and told them to rest their limbs, upon which the busy Baucis threw a rough cloth. Then she moved away the warm ashes in the fireplace, and rouses the fire of yesterday, with leaves and dry bark, and brings it to flame with her old woman's breath, and brought down finely split torches and dry twigs from the roof, chopped them up and moved them under a small pot with what her husband had collected from a well-watered garden. She strips plants of their leaves whilst he lifts down with a two-pronged fork the smoked and blackened pork backs from the rafter, and cuts back a small piece from the stored back, boiling, until soft, the cut piece in very hot water. Meanwhile they beguile the middle hours with conversations and brandish a cushion from a sedge of rivers placed on a couch on a frame and on willow feet. They covered this with cloths, which they were accustomed to strew except in festive time, but even these blankets were cheap and old, not unworthy of the willow couch. The gods reclined. The trembling gathered up old woman placed a table, but the third foot of the table was unequal: a pottery-shard made it equal; after which pushed underneath raised the slope, fresh mints wiped the leveled table. Hither upon it she put a two-colored olive of pure Minerva and autumnal cornelian-cherries preserved in clear dregs and chicories and a radish and a lump of curdled milk and lightly turned eggs in cool (?) ashes, all in earthenwares. After these she set out a wine-mixing-bowl carved of the same silver and cups carved from beech wood, which were holes smeared with tawny waxes; There was a little delay, and from the fireplace came heated meals, nor were wines of long age born back backward and the drawn apart feasts gave little place for second courses: Here is a nut, here a fig is mixed with wrinkled dates and plums and apples smell in gaping baskets and grapes gathered from purple vines, in the centre is a white honeycomb; above all, good faces were added nor weak and poor spirit. “Meanwhile as often as the bowl was drained it was refilled of its own will and they see that wines refill themselves: astonished by the strangeness they are frightened and utter with supine hands prayers both Baucis and timid Philemon and beg for forgiveness for the meal, and no preparations. There was a single goose, the guard of their small house: whom the owners prepared to sacrifice for the guest Gods; that one quick with a wing tired the ones slow with age and eludes them for a long time and finally seemed to have taken refuge with the gods themselves: the gods forbade it to be killed, ‘We are gods, and this impious neighborhood will pay just penalties,’ they said, ‘it will be given to y’all to be free of this evil; forthwith leave y’all’s roofs and accompany our steps and go into the heights of the mountain likewise!’ Lifted they both obey and strived to put footsteps on the long slope with their sticks. As much were they away from the summit as a sent arrow can go once: they bent their eyes and see the rest sunk in the swamp, that only their own roof(s) remain, and while they marvel at these, while they weep the fates of their own, that old cottage small even for two owners, is turned into a temple: pillars replace wooden-props, and the straw yellowed and golden roofs were seen and carved doors, and ground covered with marble. Then from a calm mouth Jupiter said these things; ‘say, o just old man and o woman worthy of a just husband, what you wish.’ Having spoken a little with Baucis Philemon reveals their joint verdict to the gods: ‘we ask to be priests and watch over your temples, and since we have spent harmonious years, let the same hour take us two, nor may I ever see my wife’s tomb(s), neither may I be buried by her.’ Faith follows wishes: they were the guardians of the temple, as long as life was given; weakened by years and old-age when by chance they were standing before the sacred steps and discussing the place’s downfall, Baucis [saw] that Philemon was in leaf, old Philemon saw that Baucis was in leaf. And now while the top grew over twin countenances while it is permitted, they returned mutual words and said ‘farewell, o companion’ at once, likewise bark covered concealed mouths —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.241.230 (talk) 23:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Crikey, this is why I don't regret my decision to not study Latin or Classics when I was at Judd... (also available here: [1]. Barney, note if something was deleted you can get it back from the history anyway. Halsteadk (talk) 13:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] non-encyclopaedic content

I will not hesitate to remove non-encyclopaedic content, despite the threats of some kid whose name I don't even know. Wikipedia is not for slagging people off. (Edmund1989 16:03, 18 October 2007 (UTC))