Talk:The Internationale

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 The Internationale is part of WikiProject Soviet Union, an attempt to better organise information in articles related to the Soviet Union. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the class scale.
Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

'

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Internationale article.
Article policies
Older comments are archived by chronology: 2003, 2004, 2005.

Contents

[edit] English Pronouciation

Could some please cite the "the traditional workers' pronunciation?" Not only do I want this backed up, but the very phrase "the traditional workers' pronunciation" coupled with a mispronuciation implies that workers are too stupid to pronouce words correctly. I find this characterization offensive. 67.188.7.78 13:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Does this really need a cite in particular? It's very common knowledge among anyone who's likely to sing it in English that that's how it's said, and you can listen to any of the vocal recordings of the Internationale in English to confirm it. And I don't read a patronising tone in that phrase -- more an implication of a good, honest, proletarian way of speaking rather than bourgeois-intellectual attempts to imitate the French pronunciation... Mendor 11:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I too would contend with the "traditional workers' pronunciation" statement. I have sung this song hundreds of times in different settings, and many times with hundreds of others and would not recognise the statement that "In English, the traditional workers' pronunciation is not an imitation of the French [ɛ̃tɛʀnasjɔnal(ə)], but rather [ɪntɚnæʃəˈnæli] (rhyming with "alley" or "valley")."
As I say, I don't sing it like that and have only come across that pronunciation in a couple of recordings and some Socialist Workers Party members who couldn't remember most of the words.
Surely it would be more accurate to recognise that both pronunciations exist without this "traditional workers' pronunciation" stuff?
Ecadre (talk) 11:16, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Russian Version

I downloaded and played the Russian version from hymn.ru and read the Russian text on this page as I listened to it... and all was fine for the first two stanzas, but the third stanza sounds radically different from what the Russian text or romanisation would suggest. Is the text of the third stanza in the page possibly incorrect? I hope someone can clear this up for me. Thanks.Cloaked Romulan 05:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The English translation of the Russian version, while claiming to be literal, was obscenely (and possibly deliberately) mis-translated. As a professional English to Russian translator, I completely re-translated the stanzas and slightly altered the chorus. 128.195.186.34 11:19, 11 October 2007 (UTC)Adieu

I have a little question nagging my mind about the clenched-fist salute. It seems to be usual in all movements that use the Internationale to raise one fist, but which hand is not really sure: where I live (in Belgium), we (the Social Democrats) actually raise the LEFT hand, while most Communist movements raise the right. It may seem like over-correctness, but as we are not really on speaking terms with the Communist movements, raising the right hand is frowned upon in the Social Democrat movement. Is this worth a correction of the article? 81.242.11.8 21:19, 22 April 2006 (UTC)Thomas Maes

Here (France) left hand is usually prefered to the right hand probably because right hand reminds both fascist and nazi salute or simply because left hand looks more leftist. I think this worthed a correction. I simply chose to write "either right or left" but "one hand" could have been the simpliest way. Overkilled 19:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese Translation

The job for the chinese translation of the Internationale into English is pretty good. However, it is not too literal. Since the header says "Literal English translation", I would be making the translation more literal :p Fierywindz 13:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese lyrics

I have a question regarding the Chinese version of l'Internationale. It states that the Internationale was sung during the Tienamen Square riots of 1989. Did they use a different version? -Daniel Blanchette 23:36, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

A resounding no. They sang the same version that Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping sang when they were young. -- Миборовский U|T|C|E|Chugoku Banzai! 23:59, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
As the Chinese lyrics are used as the anthem of the Chinese Communist Party, I just wonder if it has ever been banned in Taiwan administered by the Republic of China. I think the answer is yes since the March of the Volunteers as the anthem of the Communist China was banned in Taiwan until 1990s.--Jusjih 04:11, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
Not sure. But I did add some stuff on its use during the Tiananmen Massacre. Sent an email to Amnesty International since a 1989 report by them seems to note that the students sang the song repeatedly. This should provide quite authoritative. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 04:39, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
The Internationale is not banned in China. I've removed the speculation on that. See also the discussion on Qu Qiubai. —Babelfisch 07:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

If you know something contrary to the frequently rumored ban, you should probably present them together instead of removing the speculation totally. What you think is not just a speculation, but a widely circulated rumor that has yet to be better investigated. There are always widely reported allegations even if most people cannot prove their truthfulness. A similar claim that I know is about Shen Chung (zh:沈崇) reportedly raped by American troop on 24 December 1946 while unconfirmed report has suggested that she has claimed that she was not raped. Since the Chinese Communists even banned the March of the Volunteers during the Cultural revolution for political reasons, banning the Internationale might be politically possible, maybe zhao1ling4 xi4gai3 (朝令夕改, morning's order changed in the evening). After all, we should take a better search about whether the Internationale has ever been banned in Red China.--Jusjih 03:36, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

On a separate note, I've got the Amnesty International report and confirmed the singing of the Internationale, which was quoted in the report. Those pesky commies at Tiananmen can finally die honourably. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 04:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
As I said in the discussion on Qu Qiubai, a simple search on the Internet returns many official occasions where it was recently sung, such as this report on Renmin Ribao: Jìniàn dàhuì shàng zòuxiǎng Guójìgē 纪念大会上奏响国际歌 ("The Internationale" sung at the memorial meeting). That was on September 3rd, 2005. (I've personally heard The Internationale on several official occasions in China, live and on TV, between 1992 and now.) If it was ever banned, it must have been a temporary ban at a local level. The rumors I've read about suggest that. But a Wikipedia article is not the right place to write about rumors, unless they are verified as facts, or exposed as false rumors. —Babelfisch 09:21, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
I have heard of unconfirmed local bans in China. We have to check Wikipedia:Verifiability as well. What I cannot yet verify is whether the Internationale was ever banned in Taiwan administered by the Republic of China while the March of the Volunteers was known to be banned there.--Jusjih 03:11, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

the 英 "ying" does not really mean "england". on its own it means "person of talent or wisdom". however, it is also commonly used for transliteration purposes, just as it is used for the full chinese name for "england", "yinggelan" 英格兰

Thanks for the clarification. Arbitrary username 11:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright status of the Internationale

I just read the Copyright Law of the People's Republic of China. Article 2 says, "Any work of a foreigner or stateless person which is eligible to enjoy copyright under an agreement concluded between the country to which the foreigner belongs or in which he has habitual residence and China, or under an internationa1 treaty to which both countries are party, shall be protected in accordance with this Law." Since China and France have both signed the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, does that mean that the French copyright of the melody applies in China?--Jusjih 06:51, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea about this, but if it is copyrighted it is ignored. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 07:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


The lines regarding copyright in the article need clarification anyway. I'm unaware of any copyright law that would prevent this or any other song from being sung at private, meetings. ~CS 18:40, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
You know what? It's been almost a year since this was first raised, and nothing has been done to clarify it. I'm striking out the offending lines. ~CS 18:43, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
A movie producer in France was asked to pay €1000 for the use of the song by the corporation administering the authors' rights because the copyright holder had evidence. I have seen a Chinese article calling it "please deposit money to sing the Internationale". I cannot think of its fair use in the public. In order to claim payment or damage for its use elsewhere, there must be neighbouring rights honoring copyright of other countries and areas. Many international copyright conventions do this. When the Soviet Union used the melody as its national anthem, there was probably no neighbouring right honoured. As the Internationale was originally intended to be sung to the tune of La Marseillaise, I just found at fr:La Marseillaise that there were students singing La Marseillaise in the Tiananmem Square Protest in 1989.--Jusjih 03:51, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I know nothing about French copyright law, but in any case I'm familiar with there's a massive difference between using the song in a film and singing it at a meeting or a protest. One is a for-profit venture where the copyright holders need to be compensated, the other is private, possibly spontanious, and beholden to no copyright restrictions. There's nothing to stop anyone from singing a song at a protest, while walking down the street, or while in the shower. AFAIK. ~CS 17:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Translated from fr: (My French isn't that good, may have a mistake or two but I think I have the big picture)

The Chinese students who demonstrated in Tiananmen also sang the Marseillaise, which was their first song among the fighters of freedom (???). The event was a protest against the increasing corruption of power, Deng Xiaoping's policy of economic liberalisation, and prejudice against the poor.

Good job French compatriots! Finally someone who's actually got the guts to stand up to the western propaganda machine and expose those commies for who they were! :D
But we need something more than the French Wikipedia to put it on the Wiki :D Anyway, it's off topic on this page, The Internationale, a song which I think is way cooler than La Marseillaise! :D -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 04:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I think in the context of this article the lyrics are fair use under American copyright law (that's fair dealing to you Commonwealth folks), which is what applies to Wikimedia. There is ample analysis and exposition, and the lyrics are short. If your read the LOC's fair use guidelines you will see that quoting a short poem (not an epic!) in its entirety within a larger work is not a problem for fair use. NTK 02:25, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
The question of copyright in this instance was not the issue of fair use to use in the Wikipedia article itself, but about a line (since removed) that regarded it being sung at political rallies. The article at the time intimated that such singing was against copyright law, which I suspect to be untrue. ~CS 02:59, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Surely both lyricist and composer have been dead for long enough for it to be out of copyright.
Comrades beware! The Internationale is not out of copyright yet. Olivier Besancenot, leader of the French Revolutionary Communist League (otherwise not a great friend of mine) found this out the hard way when he was arrested in 2004 for singing it (without due copyright payments) at a public party rally. Not that the law is usually enforced for public meetings, but I would take care when using it in films and the like anyway.

From commons:Commons:Licensing#Wartime copyright extensions:

"Note that one should not assume that copyright holders do not try enforce these extensions. In 2005, right holders demanded payment for a movie where a character whistled The Internationale, whose author died in 1932. On the other hand, the Paris Appeal Court ruled against applying the extensions in 2004 [1], but on 12 October 2005, another section of the same court applied the extension so that the works of a painter who died in 1931 will not enter the public domain before late 2016 [2]. The case is now before the French supreme court (Court of Cassation)."

There are grey zones to the French wartime copyright extensions. As the Internationale was originally intended to be sung to the tune of La Marseillaise, does anyone know this practice nowadays? (See also fr:La_Marseillaise#Loi about the penalty for insulting the French anthem.)--Jusjih 08:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Based on [3], it seems that the French copyright extension CANNOT be applied in the United States as the melody was set in 1888.--Jusjih 06:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I just found that as the Internationale music was published in the late 19th century (before 1 July 1909), its French copyright is not valid in the USA. :-)--Jusjih 01:55, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

oh the irony...

I'm wondering why the section on copyright is so prominently placed in the article. The important thing is not the copyright of the song, but the song itself. I would think it more fit to place the lyrics first. If there is a need for some kind of explanation of the copyright status as justification of placing the lyrics on the page it could come at the end like most disclaimers. Elentirmo 13:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

There was a well known copyright case in France so I see no problem having it so prominently placed in the article. As only very few countries copyright individual works for life + more than 70 years, Pierre Degeyter's melody should be in the public domain in many places. For now I do not support your idea to place the lyrics first while the melody might remain copyrighted in Mexico (life + 100 years) as well.--Jusjih 17:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] English lyrics

I have found http://home.planet.nl/~elder180/internationale/engels.htm showing even more English lyrics. While older ones may be in the public domain, newer ones, notably Billy Bragg's modern version, may still be copyrighted. While copyrighted ones may be usable as fair use here, please DO NOT copy them to Wikisource where fair use is extremely limited.--Jusjih 04:18, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The SubGenius parody was funny! Good find! (I've been to that site before, but didn't see that parody!) -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 04:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
To be more specific, English Wikisource has expressly prohibited fair use and noncommercial licenses, so please do not bother adding newer lyrics like Billy Bragg's modern version there without evidence of proper licensing.--Jusjih 09:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
How notable is the Bragg version? I've never encountered it anywhere else, and it doesn't seem particularly relevant. Is there a reason why it is included? Leushenko (talk) 01:26, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Like -> Life

While I'm still unconvinced that this page needs so many renditions of the lyrics, I noticed the recent revert of Robth's correction of the word "like" to "life" in the Billy Bragg version of the song. I have taken the liberty of changing the lyric back to "life" after consulting the liner notes, and confirming by listening to the audio. Both sources clearly say "life," and not "like." ~CS 22:03, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I suppose I should repeat what I said over at CS42 user talkpage: Please see this from the official Billy Bragg website. It says "like". May I know what liner notes you are talking about? Feel free to change it back if it convinces you... I'll be away the rest of today. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 23:30, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Uh... I was so intrigued by the "life" thingy that I just listened to it again on my iPod. Definitely a "like". -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 23:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Interesting. I suspect there is a typo on the webpage -- the liner notes I am using are from the album itself. The "f" in the recording on the CD is very unambiguous. I don't suppose you are listening to a different version of the song than that on The Internationale (album)?
Interesting. I suspect there is a typo on the liner notes -- the webpage is on the official Billy Bragg site. :D Yes, I am listening to the original version of the song dated 1990, which can be found online in mp3 format for commie music thieves to download at this location (in case it doesn't work, from this site, just search for Billy Bragg). :p This is weird because the /k/ in "like" is really really prominent... You should barely be able to hear a /f/ in "life", but the /k/ can be clearly heard. Hmm... Let's ask our (mine at least) favourite commie, shall we? -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 00:39, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
I hate to say it but -- that's the same recording as the CD, and it still sounds like "life" to me... ~CS 16:17, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Posted something on the BB forums (had to register on that socialist website and potentially endangering myself to being branded "Unamerican") and asked about the lyrics. Should probably have an answer some time tomorrow! -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 04:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
No "official" answer yet, but people on the forum gave a link to a site that says "life". -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 03:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for going the extra length to clear that up! ~CS 04:18, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
No problem. It still sounds like "like" to me, though. Oh well. Ironically, I couldn't spend the same amount of time to email college admission offices. +5 Wikiholic points! -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 06:33, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like "life" to me. You can clearly hear the "f" sound. -- infinity0 17:59, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] why "soviet" in american version?

does anyone know why the word "soviet" is used in the american version. it's not in the french or the brit ver

'tis the US "Communist" version. The IWW version says "the international union will be the human race". The song was sung long before 1917, and I think the word soviet replaced the word union in the "Communist" version to express the newly emerged political line, i.e. a belief in soviets as a higher form of workers' organization than unions. Note that I have no documentation to back this up, so it doesn't belong (yet) in the article. --BostonMA 13:27, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Since the word "soviet" sounds leaning toward communism, the article has substituting phrases. There are limited communists in the US, but I have no documentation to back BostonMA's claim, either.--Jusjih 09:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "national" anthem

The text claims that the Internationale was the national anthem of the Soviet Union from 1917. I have no doubt that it was sung and played on state occasions. Nevertheless, I think there are several problems with the assertion. 1) It was undoubtedly sung and played as an expression of internationalism, and the concept of a national anthem is somewhat at odds with such an expression. 2) The Soviet Union did not exist from 1917. I therefore suspect Original Research. I posted a fact tag, but no citations were forthcoming. I will delete the claim. If a citation for the claim is found, feel free to re-insert. --BostonMA 01:32, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

It most certainly was the national anthem of the USSR, although the dates may (or may not) be a little off. The wikipedia article on USSR claims it was the anthem from 1922, but is a little fuzzy on what date to consider as the birth of the USSR (1917, 1922). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.195.186.34 (talk) 11:15, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Specific reference

Is the "International" specifically referring to the International Workingmen's Association?--Pharos 05:10, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes Ecadre (talk) 11:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sweden

The article says that 'In Sweden the fifth stanza was censored during the Second World War. The words "They will soon know our bullets / Are for our own generals" were not well liked when they needed people to focus on the war effort.' This seems somewhat nonsensical given that Sweden was a neutral country. Why would people need to focus on the war effort if there wasn't one? --86.136.27.212

I cannot verify this whole paragraph, so I have hidden it from the readers: 'In many European countries, the song was illegal around the beginning of the 20th century because of its communist image and government-undermining lyrics. In Sweden the fifth stanza was censored during the Second World War. The words "They will soon know our bullets / Are for our own generals" were not well liked when they needed people to focus on the war effort."' If anyone can prove this paragraph true with verifiable sources, it can be added back.--Jusjih 09:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't know about the Internationale in specific, but in Sweden, kind of everything was censored during ww2. We were very frightened of getting into the war ourselves, so everything that could be seen as provocative was censored. And yeah, that neutrality is kind of nonsensical, even Swedes can admit 60 years later...

[edit] Bengali lyrics

As the Bengali lyrics added by 59.93.210.73 on 7 November 2006 are not readable, I have removed it for now. It should be added here only if someone can write something encyclopedic for it since this article is not of multilingual Wikisource. However, please also note that we can claim fair use here but not at Wikisource in case a lyric is copyrighted.--Jusjih 16:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC) (admin here and at English Wikisource)

I will remove the Bengali lyrics, as there seems to be no encyclopaedic reason for them to be included. My reasoning (after a brief look at old discussion pages) is the following:

  • The English lyrics should be on the page because this is the English Wikipedia
  • The Internationale was originally written in French, so this justifies French lyrics
  • The song used to be the anthem of the Soviet Union so this justifies Russian. In theory this would justify all official USSR languages, of which there are quite a few, but in practice, Russian was the most widely used version. The article National Anthem of the Soviet Union also has only Russian lyrics.
  • I can't judge the case for the Chinese lyrics. The song probably figured prominently in the early history of People's Republic of China, it could perhaps have been the anthem in the early days of the Long March. However, there's a fair bit of encyclopaedic content accompanying the translation. Maybe it merits a different article, but it certainly doesn't merit deletion.

Now, if the Bengali version serves as the anthem of eg. one of the Indian states, or if it played an important role in the history of the song, a case could be made for it to be included here. However, there is no information provided on this, so there's no way to justify why this version would make it in as opposed to any of 80+ individual language versions that exist in the world. These were consigned to WikiSource back in 2004.

Miranche 18:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


I'm not sure of this but out of all the Indian languages, probably the first translation of The Internationale was in Bengali. Also, the first true countrywide revolutionary communist movement in India, was launched in Naxalbari,a village in West Bengal, from where it gets its name i.e, the Naxalite Movement. As this movement continues to grow and challenge the ruling classes, I think that it is significant enough to have the Bengali lyrics in Wiki.

-Srijon

The lyrics themselves do not constitute encyclopedic content; you can refer to the past discussions in the article, which agreed to move single language versions (of which there were many) to WikiSource. I know that the Naxalite movement is currently very important, but a large number of other important socialist, communist and anarchist movements since 1871 were inspired by the song. From the encyclopedic point of view, there's nothing special about a movement happening now, so if this were sufficient to include Bengali lyrics, very many others, for example Spanish (because of Spanish Civil War, and Cuban Revolution), German, Hungarian, Tagalog etc. would need to be included as well.
Most importantly, Wikipedia follows WP:NPOV, so whatever our personal feelings may be, the fact that the song inspires a movement is absolutely not a sufficient reason to post the lyrics *at all*.
As for your second argument, that Bengali was the first Indian translation of the Internationale, it is true that there are very many Bengali speakers and that India is the world's second most populous country, so you could build a case around this. However, in order to justify it, you would need to (1) make sure that this indeed was the first translation and (2) accompany the lyrics with at least an outline of the history of the song in India. Still, there are more Spanish speakers than Bengali speakers in the world, and Internationale as a song, I think, has made more history when sung in Spanish than in Bengali; I may be wrong. In spite of this, the Spanish translation is not included; it would overburden the article. It would *maybe* make sense to have a separate article called The Internationale in Spanish, or The Internationale in Bengali. Even if this were the case, though, the separate article would *absolutely* need to include some encyclopedic content, not only song text.
Please let me know what you think... You can leave the message on my talk page.
Miranche 06:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
No reply in 3 days... Erasing Bengali lyrics again.
Miranche 19:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I added the Chinese lyrics with encyclopedic information here. Based on your suggestion, I may consider a separate article called The Internationale in Chinese. As this article is 31 kb long now and I have found three different sets of Chinese lyrics, splitting may be needed, but I would like to remind the proposed merger of The Internationale in Indian Languages to this article. In addition, copyrighted lyrics without a GFDL-compatible license might be usable here with fair use when accompanied by encyclopedic information, but please do not copy them to Wikisource where fair use is impractical and thus forbidden.--Jusjih (talk) 02:38, 3 January 2008 (UTC) (admin here and on Wikisource)

[edit] Copy right in France

The problem with the link to Le Monde is that you do not get the entire story just like that. The man who was ordered to pay for whistling the Internationale for seven seconds, explains himself here: [4] Could this also be added as reference? There is no cabal. --Pan Gerwazy 08:58, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Having a look at the English version of the French law, it seems that official political events are free of copyright, so I suppose the Soviet Union not paying to De Geyter may not be such a scandal after all. I also see a reference to "forced heirs" and ayant droit claiming more money from their copy right agency when the author was declared "mort pour la France" so I suspect that the extensions (in reality 4 years and six months for the first world war and eight years and four months for the second) may only apply for immediate heirs still alive now - considering how old De Geyter was when he died, I doubt any children of his are still alive. So that may explain why a court in 2004 said the extensions did not apply.(Ok, OR - I could not find anything on what the litigation is about)

However, I find it rather silly (one could even call it ironic ...) to have a chapter on copyright which does not discuss the problem Pierre De Geyter had to affirm his copyright during his lifetime. If no one objects, I will put something here.Pan Gerwazy 11:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I have read your provided external source and added it. The current French law seems to copyright works without registrations. Speaking of the Soviet Union not paying De Geyter, I am unsure of internationally cross-honoring copyright at that time. As we have recently celebrated New Year, I can name only four countries still copyrighting De Geyter's melody per commons:Template:PD-Internationale: France, Cote d'Ivoire, Colombia, and Mexico. The first two speak French and the other two speak Spanish.--Jusjih (talk) 02:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. After some prevarication, I have decided to add a small chapter anyway. Others may decide to shorten it.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 11:16, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Continued use in Russia

It seems that this song is the official song of the Russian communist party--their website reference here (kprf.ru). 202.89.155.120 (talk) 10:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, I happen to know the Russian version given here is the one used when it was the national anthem. The original version had "Это будет последний" (this will be the last ...) in the refrain instead of "Èto yest' nash" (switch from future to present, and introducing "our", very normal things to do with a national anthem). What version are they using now? I suppose they did not change it into "Èto byl nash" ("this was our" )? Er, that was a joke, of course, but I think we should carefully note which version is sung now after the fall of the Soviet Union, since the original may agin get into fashion. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 14:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, I had a look and of course 'tis the official Soviet version. We have a problem now. The Russian version that we have here, does not really exist. Either we put the original of Kots, 1902 with "èto budet" or we put the Soviet (and KPRF) version with six stanzas and "èto jest". To think that this version has been here such a long time without anyone noticing... Oh, and my source for "budet" is an old school Soviet encyclopaedia: [5] --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 15:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] raised clenched fist

Someone should upload a photograph of the raised clenched fist gesture. I will try if the opportunity arises. – Kaihsu (talk) 17:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Pizza" vandalism in English lyrics

Some vandal has replaced certain words in the English lyrics of the Internationale on this page with the word "pizza." It is inserted about once in each stanza. Someone who has the original version should revert the page to show the correct lyrics. 75.0.145.10 (talk) 13:27, 24 May 2008 (UTC) Jeff C.

An anonymous editor did it in this series of edits. If you have an interest in learning how to do this then check out the history page, found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_Internationale&action=history and at the top of every page. Also check out these guides in dealing with vandalism and reverting changes. Thank you for bringing this up, MrZaiustalk 13:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)