Talk:The Grand Duke

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[edit] May 2006 discussion

I have just edited this article to change the third paragraph, which didn't come close to a neutral point of view. The comments on its quality were stated as if they were facts rather than widely-held (in as much as any opinion on this somewhat obscure operetta is that) but far from universal opinions. It is also a matter of opinion what constitutes a principal-quality voice, and a production's cost is unique to that production, depending on its set, publicity, cast's salaries (if it is professional) etc.; no company is obliged to spend any particular amount on The Grand Duke or any other show. Ou tis 18:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

You make some good points, but I think you threw out the baby with the bath water. I think that by removing detail about what people like and don't like about the opera, and putting in general statements like "too long" or "inferior" to the earlier works, you have removed clarity. Take a look at what I just added, and see if you can work with it. G&S wrote 13 operas in a similar "topsy-turvy", gently satiric style (I am not including Thespis). It is not that easy, in a brief introduction, to each to give the unique flavor of each show, which I have tried to do. So just saying, "some people think this one is the best" or worst, or whatever, doesn't prove sufficiently descriptive. If you can add something clearer or more descriptive, so that a reader unfamiliar with the opera can understand the issue, that would be useful. --Ssilvers 16:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I think your present version is rather good. Frankly I realised mine was inadequate but I added it anyway, as the previous version wouldn't do, hoping someone would improve it. Thank you for doing so. Ou tis 23:18, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. These G&S-related pages are definitely a WIP, so it certainly helps to have fresh eyes and perspectives take a look. Ideally, each should have a brief intro that gives a little flavor of what is interesting, unique or particularly amusing about each. I hope that the reader can get a sense of the unique "personality" of each opera before deciding whether or not to read the whole plot synopsis. Best regards, --Ssilvers 04:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] #28

Now, surely this is misallocated - after all, doesn't the Notary and Rudolph show up at the end of it to stop them leaving? Ah, well. I'm revising all the music lists eventually, but Grand Duke I know least, so... Still! if I mention this here, I won't forget it. Adam Cuerden 14:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I've replaced "Chorus" with "Ensemble" Marc Shepherd 14:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment section

I took the following out of the main article, and am "parking" it here:

Many find that the libretto of The Grand Duke, like that of Utopia Limited, is unfocused, leaving too many plot discrepancies, and believe that its libretto needs pruning or even rewriting. It also requires a larger principal cast than most of the earlier G&S operas. Consequently, it is produced less often than most of the earlier G&S operas (and usually with cuts). Nevertheless, some consider this opera underrated and feel that the story contains characters and situations that are as funny, the settings as fanciful, and music as cheery and flavourful as in any of the earlier G&S works.

I think all of the G&S articles should have a critical assessment section backed up by citable sources. The parapgraph above as it stands now is probably a fair summary of the various things people have said about The Grand Duke, but in its current uncited state, it's all weasel words. Marc Shepherd 21:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I let the Times reviewer speak for us. If one follows the link provided, the review pretty much covers what is being said in the paragraph that you removed, don't you think? --Ssilvers 23:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, a great solution. Marc Shepherd 00:57, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Soubrette a mezzo?

Is this correct? If so, it seems to parallel the humour of having the only non-German speak with a German accent. — Sebastian 07:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean? Yes, Lisa fits the general description of a soubrette. She is a light mezzo, often portrayed by sopranos. However, even the low-sitting Jessie Bond mezzo roles in G&S are considered soubrettes. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 14:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, thanks! I was thinking of the fach, which defines soubrette as soprano. (See also http://www.ipasource.com/soprano.) But Richard Miller, in Training Soprano Voices, lists Despina (a mezzo) as a "perfect example" of the soubrette intrigante. Intriguing, indeed! — Sebastian 18:23, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Red links

Thanks for your contributions, but please do not add red links unless you are planning to write an article about the red-linked subject shortly. Also, please note that the G&S Project (WP:G&S and WP:MUS discourage naming amateur theatre groups in WP articles. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 18:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:GrandDukeposter.jpg

Image:GrandDukeposter.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

It's public domain, not fair use. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:30, 14 February 2008 (UTC)