Talk:The Graduate

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Contents

[edit] Attribute POV views

From the main article

[redacted non-NPOV comments from main article].

Whilst I like the film, I find the editing tedious and the imagery occasionally OTT. To my recollection, the film also struggles to explain why Elaine has any interest in Benjamin. It might be best if these views can be attributed somewhere. For instance, it might well be appropriate to distill commentary from imdb.com user reviews, quote Leonard Maltin, or some such. --Robert Merkel

POV views should be omitted from the article completely unless they can be attributed. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:53, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
I think what the person is referring to above is the symmetry of the scenes, and various other edits e.g. where Benjamin getting out of pool turns into Benjamin on top of Mrs. Robinson. I'd have to second your statement, though: those bits above are purely opinion and do not belong in an encyclopedia. Oh and IMHO Roger Ebert has a point when he says the film is best the first time around, and loses a lot the second time through. Koyaanis Qatsi

[edit] Novel was first

The novel came first. For what it is worth, I love the film, but I do not think wikipedia is a place for movie reviews (although it can and should give accounts of critical and popular reception). In any event, without taking anything away from Mike Nichols, we should not praise him at the expense of the author of the novel that inspired him, Slrubenstein

That's all well and good, but it's both established & accepted to write articles about movies worth writing about--and this one certainly is worth writing about, at least in the eyes of the U.S. National Film Registry.
Why not just add some bits about the novel? No one else seems to have known about it, and I certainly don't.
So far as your summary comment about disambiguation goes, I'd argue for not disambiguating this article until there's an article's worth of material on the novel and/or musical. No sense in creating more two-line stubs, IMO. Cheers, --KQ 14:36 Aug 2, 2002 (PDT)
I hope you are not being defensive -- I certainly didn't mean to criticize the article -- just the fact that it did not mention the novel (which surprised me as I just read some of your other articles on film -- which I appreciate, byt the way -- and saw that you were careful to mention the novels upon which they were based. In any event, beyond having read and liked the novel (it does tell rather more about Benjamin's trying to "find himself" between graduating college and the affair with Mrs. Robinson), I do not remember much and know nothing more about it or the author. As for disambiguation -- I do not really care one way or the other, if anything I agree with you -- but I have noticed that some entries specify "movie" or "book." But like I said, I do not really care. Slrubenstein

No, I didn't mean to be defensive, though maybe I was anyway. I simply think that disambiguation has gotten a bit out of hand, to the point where we disambiguate for topics that have less than a decent paragraph on them. And I honestly did not know about the book, though I should have.  :-) I would love to see an article on it. I'd say I'd love to read it, except I have a stack of books here already waiting for me. --KQ

[edit] Second film?

"the second film?" What does that mean? -- Zoe

I think it means that Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf came first. Slrubenstein
Oh, thanks, I thought it meant that there were two film versions of the book. -- Zoe
Oops, I've removed that part, as it's not particularly relevant to a discussion of the film, though it may be to one of Mike Nichols. Feel free to add it back and/or clarify (I did that after reading your first comment, but before I could post--various edit conflicts, etc.). --KQ

[edit] Tufts?

An anon user added that he received his Bachelor's degree from Tufts. I'm not sure the movie mentions which university he graduated from. If not, it should be removed. If so, it needs to wikified (with a wikilink). — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:53, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually, according to Lee Hill, Nichols got his BA from U. Chicago. "Born in Berlin on November 6, 1931 as Michael Igor Peschkowsky, Nichols came with his German-Jewish family to the USA when he was seven. The death of his father when he was twelve dealt a financial blow to his family. Although he was raised with aspirational middle class values, he worked hard to win scholarships that got him a place at the University of Chicago." -- http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/03/nichols.html funkendub

[edit] Why?

Will someone please explain why this is such a revered film? All I see is a stupid kid getting together will a silly lady and then stalking her daughter. If this "defines a generation" then it is one sick, screwed up generation. I like Gavin De Becker's take on it.

I think there is a whole "angst" thing that goes along with it. I guess it also is supposed to faithfully represent the age for when it was made. But I'm not a film critic and this isn't really a discussion board. We're really only supposed to discuss issues relating to the article here. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
This might help. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:28, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I concur -- this movie is considered to be iconic, but on face value, there's nothing I can admire about the main character. I guess it's a bit like The Catcher In The Rye in that way. Afalbrig 08:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References in popular culture

In American Pie there are two reference to the graduate, one in the scene where nadia strips for jim and the second when finch is seduced by stifflers mum(a cover version of mrs robinson is played), this are mentioned in the audio comentary. In America Pie two, when finch and stifflers mum are on the car, mrs robison is also played.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.8.104 (talk)

[edit] The church

Where is the church in which the wedding takes place? If still standing, I suppose it's a place of pilgrimage for film aficionados. If so, how does the congregation react to them? Dynzmoar 14:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Blooper

There is another minor blooper in the film. There is a scene where he is driving through a tunnel either going to or from Santa Barbara (can't remember which). That tunnel is about 30 minutes drive north of SB, near the Gaviota Coast. Anyway, whatever direction he is driving is the wrong direction based on his supposed destination at that point in the film.

[edit] Plastics

Wasn't the plastics line taken from "The Glass Menagerie"? --Gbleem 08:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pop culture references - Trivia section

I agree that this movie has had a great influence on pop culture, and this should be explained properly. A long list of random references to the film is no good, though. I would remove it, but I know that people would just put it right back, because everyone is in love with their own little reference they saw on TV last week. --345Kai 07:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:The Graduate poster.jpg

Image:The Graduate poster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pop cultural references restored

I've restored the section on pop cultural references after weeding out quite a few of them and formatting it. This is no longer the list that ate the article, it's a representative sampling of the impact of the film on our culture. Nor is it "original research", since media objects are their own source and do not need secondary sources to be verified. (They exist in and of themselves, and are widely available, so the verification of these incidents is available as well to anyone who cares to look them up -- just the same as if a secondary source said these things and you had to go find the book to verify it.)

In any case, this is a good faith effort to keep the section under control and not overwhelm the article, but still provide the insight into how this film has gotten under our skins. I ask, please, that it not be reverted wholesale. If there are some entries which seem less important or less representative than others, then by all means they should be removed or edited down, but in the spirit of compromise, it would be nice not to have an edit war start over something like this.

Many thanks. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 13:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I rewrote this section to be not ugly. In particular I did the following:
  • I removed one or two of the most obscure examples completely.
  • I moved the entire section out of list form, and into paragraph form, as our style guide indicates.
  • I reduced the level of detail of description of the pop culture references.
  • I moved the specific references into references/cited templates in footnotes, so they don't disrupt the flow of the article. this is an article about The Graduate, not about The Simpsons. If the reader wants a soul-crushing level of detail, they can read the footnotes.

If you restore any of the deleted material, please be sure to use the citation templates and put them in as references. I left the templates mostly intact even when empty to make cut-and-paste insertion of this type easier. Nandesuka (talk) 15:36, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks -- I think you've come up with a workable compromise that serves the article and covers the material. I've used footnotes for this purpose elsewhere, and it seems to be a good methodology. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 16:04, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Another influence

Is it worth mentioning the Family Guy episode Wish Upon A Weinstein? The end of the episode is a complete parody of the end of this movie. Not to mention that FOX banned the episode from airing (initially). --Son (talk) 14:51, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] College Name?

I noticed in the first paragraph it states that Benjamin had just graduated from Williams College but in another part of the article it states he had graduated from an "unknown College". I haven't corrected it because I don't know which editor is correct. I love the film but I doubt I would win any "The Graduate" trivia contests. --Kjrjr (talk) 15:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)