Talk:The Evergreen State College

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[edit] Not Notable Alumnus

Kim Thayil. Notable, yes. Greener, no. --71.212.81.127 05:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I removed the entry on the list. --Rkitko 06:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added history

I added some history. Please feel free to clean up my cite. I'm not real hot with the key commands, etc. on Wiki. Thanks. ````

I moved the citation down to a References section, wikified a few things, etc. Thanks for adding some history! ManekiNeko | Talk 08:19, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Buildings on campus

Can anyone who is knowledgeable out there find out about the architect(s) and dates of construction of the main buildings on campus? (Like the clock tower, library, etc.) They would be very useful for the Brutalism article. TIA, - KeithTyler 23:03, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)

Go to www.evergreen.edu/facilities

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was: This page was moved according to Wikipedia's guidelines on naming University articles. Semiconscious (talk · home) 00:22, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Evergreen State College → The Evergreen State College – Page was moved from the correct title to comply with a policy that is not applicable in this case.

[edit] Voting

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
  • Support - explained below. phh 20:14, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support per phh.—jiy (talk) 21:40, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Support per phh's excellent documentation below. -- ManekiNeko | Talk 00:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC) (B.A., The Evergreen State College, 1993)
  • Support. I've already moved the page back, because I was in error. Sorry about the mix-up everyone, but I completely misapplied Wikipedia's standards on this one. Semiconscious · talk 15:45, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

User:Semiconscious moved this page to Evergreen State College from The Evergreen State College in an effort to comply with naming conventions for universities. That page says:

The definite article should not be used for universities, even if the official name of the university uses the definite article, as indicated on the website links below. Thus, the most-common-name rule supersedes the official name.

This is a case, however, in which the specific policy violates the underlying principle, because the official name of the school—The Evergreen State College, with the definite article—is also its most common name. And this is true in a way that is not true for, e.g., the University of Washington.

The key is in the school's acronym (initialism, whatever): TESC. Not ESC. "TESC" is used on official documents, in newspaper, on highway signs, informally in conversation, and in countless other contexts. "ESC" is never, ever, ever used by anyone who is familiar with the college. Google test:

Likewise, "The" is properly capitalized when the name of the school is used as a noun: She teaches at The Evergreen State College. As with similar proper nouns (cf. The New York Times), for simplicity's sake it's usually lowercase when the name of the school is used as a compound adjective: I went to the Evergreen State College library.

As 192.211.21.179 notes, this is because Washington is the Evergreen State, and therefore the college is The Evergreen State College. Grammatically, the "the" here is not being used as an article, as in "the University of Washington", but as a fragment of what I'd guess you'd have to call a compound attributive noun. The distinction is subtle but important.

As with The Citadel, this is a case where an exception should be made to the more general rule about college and university names. --phh 20:14, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Originally developed under the name Evergreen State College, this page is more appropriate under the title The Evergreen State College, as that is the school's official name. (The "official" school acronym, for example, is TESC, not ESC.)

However, "Evergreen State College" is generally considered acceptable in an adjectival form, as in "Notable Evergreen State College alumni." -- Paul (B.A., The Evergreen State College, 1992)

Interesting. I'm not sure I buy semiconscious's assertion in this case.

Washington is The Evergreen State. The college is named The Evergreen State College. Get the connection? It seems the words in the name of the college have enough context to remain in Wiki as The Evergreen State College. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.211.21.179 (talk • contribs)

  • Doh! You're right. I looked into it and I thought the wikipedia rules were in favor of the move, but looking through many other examples such as The Hague, The Beatles, etc., you appear to be correct. I've moved it back. Semiconscious · talk 02:09, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Student Groups section added

Over the next few weeks I will be working with student groups at The Evergreen State College to expand this section with a full listing, as well as histories of all the groups. Please note that this is my first time adding to wikipedia so things may be a bit messy at first.

moses_@hotmail.com

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Moses k (talk • contribs) 02:42, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Moses. Thanks for your contribution. I think there might be a problem with what you're suggesting, which is that such contributions would likely run afoul of two of Wikipedia's main policies governing editorial content: Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability. From the latter policy: "Articles in Wikipedia should refer to facts, assertions, theories, ideas, claims, opinions, and arguments that have been published by a reputable or credible publisher." While it's always good to get more people involved with Wikipedia, having students contributing personal knowledge of the campus groups they are affiliated with would (unless it was based on verifiable information that could be cited) almost certainly be considered publishing original thought/research.
I do think providing a list of some of the groups on campus does contribute to the article, so I appreciate you adding that. Any verifiable information on student groups could also be included in that section. That said, I don't know that there's a large enough body of source material out there for each campus group to have their own article, so I'm de-wikifying (removing the [[ ]]) much of the list; of course, for the cases where the Evergreen group is a chapter of a larger organization that has their own article (like ANSWER or MEChA), I'll leave those links. As an example, I notice that EPIC already has its own article, but it looks unsourced and might present the same original research problem I've suggested above.— Jeff | (talk) | 05:10, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree that the list is a useful addition, and also that each group doesn't need its own article at this point. (Try to stick to those that are notable in some way, or are chapters of larger notable organizations, I think.) -- ManekiNeko | Talk 05:55, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

The Evergreen Men's center is not among the list of student organizations. In the past the men's center has been an avenue for gender-role exploration through issue-based discussion and through engaging in predominately male oriented social activities i.e. shooting guns and playing cards. Women have constituted a majority of members in the past.

[edit] Merging articles in

I think it would benefit this article to include the two suggested merges (The Geoduck Fight Song and Evergreen Political Information Center into The Evergreen State College). Beyond being beneficial for this article, I think each of these articles (the two proposed to merge in) should not and cannot stand on their own. Each article is only linked to by The Evergreen State College (and a disambiguation page), speaking to the fact that it's not notable unless in the context of this article. Rkitko 08:11, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and merged in the content from the fight song article into a separate section that also mentions the college mascot, motto, and fight song. (If anyone can think of a better term for this topic than "Identity", you're of course encouraged to change it.) If anyone wants to try and merge in the EPIC article, be aware of the concerns over verification and original research (as mentioned on that article's talk page). I'm not sure how much from that article ought to be (or can be) included here. I certainly agree, though, that it lacks the notability to stand as its own article. — Jeff | (talk) | 01:38, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Great job with that merge :-) As for EPIC, I think you're right that some of the information is original research. A few google returns do verify some of the claims that they educate the area (one link establishes that they screen films for the public, another (cached) google return is a lot of their recent events or general events on campus. I couldn't find anything about how they sent people to protests and marches. This is information they should first put on their own website, which I couldn't find. Then we could possibly incorporate some of their activities into this article. At least the mission is verifiable... Rkitko 01:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Regarding EPIC, it should be noted that EPIC is just a student group and not an official part of the college as an institution. Merging the page might give the impression that EPIC is in some way connected with the college administration and the like. I don't think it should be merged. yonkeltron 18:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Be that as it may, each student organization must register with the college and registrations, I believe, must be approved. On its own, EPIC is not notable and therefore cannot remain as its own article. Additionally, unless the information has been verified by a secondary source (i.e., not EPIC's webpage or other information from them), it could be considered original research. -Rkitko 02:11, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Along those lines, what is the rationale for having a full list of college students groups anyway? Although informational, the motivation for the inclusion of the list seems to be a chance to mention the few student groups with independant articles. Can the whole list be moved to it's own article with space for a brief description to include verifiable details on each club? There must be an appropriate solution here...Ideas? yonkeltron 11:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... I wouldn't merge too much with the main article. If it gets too long, somebody's gonna complain and then we're going to have to edit it down. I'd rather use the space we have for stuff that wouldn't float as a separate article. Wandering Star 03:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal to spin out Student Groups section

The list of student groups might better be expressed as it's own article with room for a brief description of each group. We should consider a similar approach for the section containing notable alumns... --yonkeltron 19:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree the alumni section may benefit from having its own article and many other college articles with extensive lists of notable alumni have done the same (i.e. List of Mount Holyoke College people, List of Dartmouth College alumni, and List of Harvard University people), but it should definitely be purged first before making that decision. Over the months I've been watching this page, I've had to remove many non-notable or non-Greener people from that list. Even better would be to have every notable alumni entry cited with a source noting that this person was indeed an Evergreen graduate. The student groups section, however, does not necessarily require a separate page, nor does each group need a paragraph explaining what function it serves. Each group alone is not notable enough to have such information included on Wikipedia, in my opinion. The larger, national organizations already have articles of their own and a simple wikilink to that article is sufficient. I agree it is a bit overwhelming, so perhaps we would be better served by a different format listing the student groups, perhaps like what I did with the groups at the Lebanon Valley College article? I also checked over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities to see what kind of discussion was going on there. The consensus tends to be to avoid splitting articles unless the text is long enough to warrant its own article. I don't think we need to split, just reformat. --Rkitko 02:04, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Where does the name "The Evergreen State College" come from? - Matthew238 07:37, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

From the article: "On January 24, 1968, The Evergreen State College was selected from 31 choices as the name of the new institution." Washington state's official nickname is "Evergreen State." --Rkitko 08:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability

WP is not a link farm or a place to establish someone's notability. Having a list that indiscriminately lists every single student group at TESC adds nothing of value to the article, and does nothing to meet the Wikipedia guidelines about notability. Groups and individuals without WP articles or reliable citations probably should not be listed. – Freechild (BoomCha) 01:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I actually agree with the above editor. I would suggest trimming the list down significantly, maybe just down to the alumni notable enough to have Wikipedia articles (to start with; it's likely people will add onto it later on anyway). As for the student organizations, try to get ones that really have a strong, definitive presence on campus. These wholesale lists are just too long and the less significant ones undermine the important ones. Just my two cents. --Midnightdreary 03:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Problem is, there may be very notable people that don't yet have a wiki article. List of Harvard University people has a few red links. But I really can't separate the non-notable from the notable. I went through it once a while ago and have tried to keep up on it through new additions (especially those of students adding their own names). As for the student orgs, how could one determine which ones have a strong presence on campus without references to back those assertions up? That would approach WP:OR and might also create problems with WP:POV. Cheers, --Rkitko (talk) 11:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
You make a good point and it's hard to argue. Even so, a complete list of student orgs may never be a perfect alternative; student groups are always going through hiatuses and new ones will often pop up so it's hard to keep up. But, I still think a representative list of orgs is possible. Some orgs are basically in name only on any campus; eliminate those first, maybe. I, for one, would take for granted whatever you choose to list or not list. I know the "notable" alumni list will always be difficult but, well, I guess I'm just acknowledging that. :) --Midnightdreary 22:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Per this convo, I am going to move the orgs and alumni that do not have articles to this talk page, where they can be developed into articles and moved back once those articles are live. Someone should add faculty, as well. – Freechild (¡!¡!¡!¡) 20:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

People

  • Brian Blake, Washington State Representative, 19th District
  • Howard “Twilly” Cannon, environmental activist and organizer
  • Robert Carlberg, phonographer (Anode)
  • Gretchen Christopher, singer and co-founder of band The Fleetwoods
  • Cylvia Hayes, founder of 3EStrategies
  • William Clocksin, computer scientist
  • Karrie Jacobs, editor and author on architecture and design issues
  • Matthew Frye Jacobson, Professor of American Studies and History, Yale University
  • Rosalund Jenkins, executive director of the Washington State Commission on African American Affairs
  • Dean Katz, Katz Communications Group, speechwriter for Microsoft
  • Jonathan Locke, author, founder of TrafficGauge, creator of the Wicket web framework.
  • Ciel Mahoney, artist
  • Donna Manson, Ted Bundy murder victim
  • Stella Marrs, artist
  • Jacob Louis Perlman, poet, farmer, prisoners' rights activist, singer
  • Mikel Reparaz, writer
  • Jeff & Greg Sherman, musicians "Glass"
  • Laurel Spellman Smith, documentary filmmaker
  • Dana Spiotta, Author of Eat The Document, a National Book Award finalist
  • Ian Stenseng, former Idaho legislative candidate, political blogger
  • Chris Strow, Washington State Representative, 10th District
  • Dan Swecker, Washington State Senator, representing the 20th legislative district
  • Brendan Williams, Washington State Representative, 22nd District

Student groups

  • Evergreen Spontaneity Club
  • Evergreen Students for Christ
  • FACE Sketch Comedy Group
  • Gaming Guild
  • Geoduck Union - The student governing body formed in 2006.
  • Giant Robot Appreciation Society (GRAS)
  • Greener Futures
  • Greeners for Student Government
  • Healing Arts Collective
  • Intervarsity Christian Fellowship
  • Jewish Cultural Center
  • Juggling Club
  • LARP Strategy and Dragons
  • Masters of Environmental Studies Graduate Student Association
  • Masters in Public Administration
  • Masters in Teaching
  • Media Influenced Entertainment
  • MindScreen
  • Musician's Club
  • Native Student Alliance (NSA)
  • Newly Emerging Recognizers of the Dimensional Sciences (NERDS)
  • Order of Sustainable Energy
  • Organizing for Evergreen Student Union
  • The Phrontisterion (Greek and Roman Classics Club)
  • Prison Action Committee (PAC)
  • Progressive Planners Network
  • Percussion Club
  • Radical Catholics for Peace and Justice
  • Services & Activities (S&A) Board
  • S&A Productions
  • Set Tha' Pace
  • Shaolin Temple Cultural Arts Club
  • Slightly West Literary Magazine
  • Society for Trans Action and Resources
  • Student Video Gamers Alliance
  • Students Against Hunger and Homelessness
  • Students at Evergreen for Ecological Design (SEED)
  • Students Educating Students About the Middle East (SESAME)
  • Students Organizing for Food Autonomy (SOFA)
  • Synergy-The Annual Sustainable Living Conference
  • The EverGleaners
  • The Russian Greeners: Russian Club
  • Umoja
  • VOX
  • Women of Color Coalition
  • Women's Resource Center
  • Writer's Guild
  • Yoga Club

[edit] Purpose of riot mention?

Is there any reason for mentioning the valentines day riot in the history? This is to say nothing about supporting the riot or not, the fact is, it's thrown in there as if it's the only significant thing in Evergreen's history since 1968, which is the last date mentioned. There is a history of activism, agitation, and the like at Evergreen and this is not an isolated incident. I know for a fact there was a riot after a Tchkung show in the early 1990's at Evergreen, yet that gets no mention here, what makes this different? Because it happened more recently? Bad form for evaluating inclusion for an encyclopedia article. Either you have a full history of this sort of thing or nothing at all.