Talk:The Entertainer (rag)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Entertainer (rag) is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, cleanup, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that aren't covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
This article is supported by the Compositions task force.

Contents

[edit] Music files invalid?

The music files that I put up are not an accurate reflection of the original score. They have lots of added improvisations and embellishments etc. Is this a problem for the article? --IE 17:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Very Difficult To Play

I've heard The Entertainer is very difficult to play. User:67.188.172.165 00:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

  • It's easier to play if you actually know how to play the piano. Wahkeenah 00:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
  • It depends on what you mean by difficult. For a new player or someone who isn't used to playing the "striding" left hand and syncopated music, it could be difficult to play. However, compare it to the most difficult music by Rachmaninoff, Liszt, Chopin, Bach, etc. and it's very easy. Hope that helps. Lookingforgroup 03:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It is very difficult to play. I hated it when I still played piano, and someone else I know hates it on guitar. MalwareSmarts (talk) 19:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Structure of the piece / History?

Appearances in pop culture are all very well, but this article lacks any substantial reference to the music's structure and history, or its relevance to Joplin and Rags in general. I'll see what I can find, but I think this needs much work... Major Bloodnok 17:47, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I've added a music section and moved the snooker stuff to the popular culture section where I think it really belongs. There is a bit more historical info as well. I'm not sure about the relevance of the lyrics though... Major Bloodnok 18:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lyrics

I have found two references to the lyrics; both indicating that they were in a simplified piano version of the rag by John Brimhall, and published in 1974.

Given this, I do not believe that having these lyrics on the page is relevant to the entry, especially since the version it relates to is a simplified version of the rag, and came into being over 50 years after the original was first published. Accordingly, I will delete that part of the entry. IMO, the words are fairly banal.Major Bloodnok 13:56, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Your opinion of the lyrics is not relevant to whether they should be in the article. What is relevant is that if they were written fairly recently, then putting them in the article is likely a copyright violation. So you're right, just for the wrong reason. Wahkeenah 14:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
    • You are right that my opinion of the lyrics is irrelevant to whether they should be left on the page or not. However I think it was fairly obvious from my previous post that the reason they should be is that words are of recent origin from a different source and are not linked to the original rag in popular consciousness (in anyone except those who read the earlier version of this page, or have used the 1974 simplified piano music that is). If the two had become linked together in a widely acknowledged way, as in the case of the poem "I vow to thee my country" and Jupiter from Holst's planet suite for example, then it would be daft to delete them. I think we're arguing from the same side...Major Bloodnok 08:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
      • We are? Well, that's no fun. :) Wahkeenah 15:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
      • I hadn't even considered the copyright angle... Major Bloodnok 14:07, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Notice also that these disputed lyrics are in the corresponding Italian-language entry here on wikipedia.org. Robert Munafo 23:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


Personally, I'm just happy to see the lyrics printed somewhere. I wrote a node on E2 that included this text:

 Anyway, the song is almost always instrumental. The only exception I have ever
 seen is when Milton Berle gently crooned the lyrics on The Muppet Show in 1977. 
 Unfortunatly, I cannot find these lyrics anywhere. I recall it being much more 
 tender and sad than the music normal makes you feel. If anyone knows these lyrics, 
 I'd love to know them.

Well, I guess now I know. --Mdwyer 20:26, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Apparently the Muppets had the song on there three times. This article mentions two different times (here's a clip on Youtube which seems to include the one the node mentions plus a third by Miss Piggy). Miss Piggy's lyrics are exactly the same except she replaces some words with "her" and "she" in reference to herself. The one with Milton Berle seems to have the exact same lyrics as I've seen written in old sheet music. Kersten (talk) 14:43, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ice cream trucks?

I actually knew this song for many years as 'the ice-cream song', because it is, at least in my area, the jingle that ice-cream trucks play. A Google search for "ice cream truck the entertainer" suggests that this is probably in fact fairly common in the United States. However, there's no mention of it in either this article or the ice cream van one. Would it maybe be appropriate to bring it up somewhere? ~ lav-chan @ 02:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Sure, if you can find a source. Unfortunately, a fond memory is insufficient documentation. :( Wahkeenah 02:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I actually found a magazine article written by 'a graduate student in ethnomusicology' on the subject. It's pretty interesting, but it only mentions 'The Entertainer' once in passing (at the very end of the text), so i don't suppose that's sufficient information to work into this article. I might try adding something about music in general to the ice cream van later though. Here's the link if anyone's interested. ~ lav-chan @ 17:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Undid vandalism by 58.107.2.177

The vandal with the IP 58.107.2.177 had randomly inserted the words "family guy" at various places in the article. I have undone all changes by that IP


mr —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.127.103.13 (talk) 10:48, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lyrics will be removed

I haven't been near this page in ages, and find the lyrics are back! Further up this page is a conversation about this issue. Given that they are under copyright and violate the WP rule: "Content that violates any copyright will be deleted", I'll delete it.

They were not published with the original piece of music, and date from a simplified piano arrangement c.1974. Major Bloodnok 19:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use in Just So Stories

I can't find any documentation for this, but I remember it being used as the theme to an animated (TV) version of the "just so stories". The TV serries was missing from the Just So Stories page as well as I've added it there with a reference to the IMDB... unfortunately no mention is made of the music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oboler (talk • contribs) 17:12, 11 March 2008 (UTC)