Talk:The End of Eternity

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[edit] Discussion

Am I imagining this or was the idea of "Eternals" who can alter the course of events mentioned by Asimov in one of his later novels in the context of the fact that there are no other intelligent beings in our galaxy? I seem to recall Asimov putting into one of his later novels the idea that robots used time travel to go deep into the past and select a "reality" in which advanced life only evolved on Earth.


Yes, thanks User:Lefty, it was in Foundation's Edge. I brought this up because I wonder if Asimov had a major change in his thinking about the evolution of life during his lifetime. Historically, many chemists have failed to be able to imagine how life could arise from non-living molecules (see: Origin of life). I suspect that Asimov (with a Ph.D. in chemistry) was indoctrinated with the chemists' bias against life being a natural process in our universe. However, during the later 20th century, many biologists came to view the creation of life by natural processes as fairly likely. This newer view has been popularized by people like Stuart Kauffman, see his book "At home in the Universe". A major impact in this debate was made by the Miller-Urey experiments of 1953 and the later discovery that nucleic acids can have enzymatic activity (see: Ribozyme).

Asimov thought about a second "bottle neck" in the evolution of advanced life forms, the evolution of sexual reproduction. He seemed to entertain the idea that even if life arose on another planet, it was unlikely that life on such a world would evolve sexual reproduction and so would be stuck with slow evolution. There was a short story by Asimov that explored this idea, I think it was called "What Is This Thing Called Love?" However, this proposed bottle neck seems to have been explored by Asimov as a joke and a way to get published in Playboy magazine.

I think it likely that by the time Asimov wrote Foundation's Edge, he realized that there had to be some new explanation of why humans from Earth never found any other interesting life forms in the galaxy. I think it was clever for him to suggest that robots (apparently this would have been under the direction of Daneel) had used the time travel technology Eternity to select a Reality in which humans did not have to compete with other life forms for control of the galaxy.

  • ".....but that interpretation is disputed"

What is disputed? JWSchmidt 16:29, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The dispute seems to be over which novels to include in the Foundation series. Independent of that dispute, it is an interesting fact that Asimov was thinking about how to justify a galaxy with only one planet (Earth) that could produce human-like life.
"Asimov placed a hint in Foundation's Edge that the Eternals might have been responsible for the all-human galaxy of the Foundation Series, but that interpretation is disputed."
Maybe the above sentence could be replaced by, "Asimov placed a hint in Foundation's Edge that the Eternals might have been responsible for the all-human galaxy of the Foundation Series. This need not be interpretated to mean that The End of Eternity is part of the Foundation Series. See: Foundation Series, Books not included. It does indicate that Asimov was concerned with providing a reason for the lack of any intelligent life originating on planets in our galaxy other than Earth." JWSchmidt 15:17, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Connection

Though this analog of Asimovs books is close to complete, and mentions many after the fact coincidences, it fails to mention Foundation and Earth. In the end of this story, the character Daneel clearly states and takes time to explain the story of the eternals, and the fact that they were very responsible for the Foundation universe to be devoid of alien lifeforms(aside from Solarians). Yet right before the complete ending of the story, eludes to the existence of an alien being among them, namely the Solarian child Daneel will use as his bodily vessel. Reading the Novels out of sequence is a serious problem to most series, but i find constantly that Asimov took painstaking care to remove any doubt in the readers mind in his vast and sometimes several chapter prolouges (which can be a bit draining if you are in fact reading a series in correct order, but I'll forgive him of that for his need not to leave anyone in the dark).

I moved this comment here because it wasn't worded properly for an article and also no source was given. I don't recall the Eternals being mentioned in Foundation and Earth, though I may be wrong. But if they are mentioned, please give the exact words. --GwydionM 17:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
You also wiped out the end of the article.--GwydionM 17:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genius

Reading too much into the book, I would say that

Asimov suggested that
loop corrections to reality form a source of genius. Hillgentleman 15:38, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What would someone in a Reality feel, at the physiomoment it is changed?

Nothing - I think; But later he would notice that Eternity is not there anymore.Hillgentleman 11:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] To Whom Did Noÿs Lambent Write?

Not to Enrico Fermi, probably. She said it was going to be a small change. She only said she was going to write a letter to Italy. One innocent looking question to a student or a collegue, or even a letter on an unrelated matter to the shopkeeper near where Fermi lived would be good enough. Hillgentleman 22:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, it is not specified, though I'd have thought it natural to write to the man himself. I have adjusted the text. --GwydionM 15:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. In fact, I had a big question mark at the words "small change" in my book, until I read it again.Hillgentleman 05:09, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reality Change ==> Poor Memory ?

We may try to attribute our poor memory to the I cannot remember what.Hillgentleman 22:32, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] "Noÿs Lambent reveals that in order to make Eternity impossible, Harlan needs only leave Cooper stranded in 1932."

  1. They could not make Eternity impossible -- the possiblility of invention was always there. They made it improbable and world events unfolded as we now know.
  2. Harlan needed only to decided to leave cooper stranded. But of couse, the effects are equivalent, because he could not revoke his decision physio-afterwards.

[edit] Physio-Time

  1. Should physio-time be the same as proper time in physics? Curiously, the path integral formalism appeared at about the same time as did <<The End of Eternity>>.Hillgentleman 05:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did the Final Change occur immediately?

In the context, I would think that it did, because Harlan's decision was firm, and the consequence irreversible. But it was not explicitly stated as such, and Harlan did not notice the Change for a while, because he was too absorbed by the scenery. --Hillgentleman 01:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:The End of Eternity.jpg

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