Talk:The Day the Music Died

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According to all available sources, including biography.com and the official buddy holly web site the correct date of death is Feb. 3 (early morning).

I still doubt it. The plane was left in a storm on the evening of February 2, and was located by authorities (who are understandably slow) at around 9 a.m. on the 3rd. I don't think there's much reason to doubt that it crashed on the second. - Hephaestos 03:06, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Well once again I'm wrong, sorry for the confusion. Sources say the plane didn't take off until 1:50 a.m. on the 3rd. - Hephaestos 03:14, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I read somewhere that the crash occured on the 2nd, but news did not reach people til the third, so the 3rd became the known date.(74.15.3.211 (talk) 06:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC))
As noted in the article, it was already past midnight when the plane took off. So it was the 3rd all the way. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 06:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see the need for this as a separate page, I think it should be redirected to American Pie (song) Mintguy (T) 09:57, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think I disagree; this article should cover events of the crash etc. which don't really belong in the article about the song (the circumstances of Valens' being on the plane at all, for instance). - Hephaestos|§ 23:47, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Ok fair enough, but in that case I think that the page should be moved and The Day The Music Died should be redirect to whatever you want to call the new page. The phrase The Day The Music died is hardly informative about the subject matter, and is basically Don McLean's invention. Mintguy (T) 23:57, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
It's a name for the event that people understand, even if it wasn't used back when it first happened. It's been applied to the event retroactively, like the Renaissance, or World War I. Fishal 19:57, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The gig was at the Armory in Moorhead MN.

There seem to be conflicting accounts about whether Tommy Allsup or Waylon Jennings was the person who lost the toss to be on the plane, did they even toss a coin at all? Can someone clarify? PatGallacher 17:11, 2005 May 30 (UTC)

[edit] en route to a gig in Fargo, North Dakota

in the artical it says "en route to a gig in Fargo, North Dakota", the concert was actually in moorhead Minnesota, however the plane was landing the fargo airport. Fargo-moorhead seperated by the read river, so technically the gig was not in Fargo, but moorhead

The destination was the airport in Fargo, ND, even though the concert was in Moorhead. Moorhead did not have an airport at the time. The two cities are just across the Red river from each other (the Minnesota-North Dakota border), as a result both cities share close ties with each other. Firstrock 15:11, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roger Peterson

Is the article on Roger Peterson about a different Roger Peterson instead of the pilot? Or was the reporter also a pilot??

[edit] Ouch

"On the toss of that coin, Ritchie won a seat on the plane, and Tommy won the rest of his life." Who worded THAT?

Yeah, your right. It was the most dangerous coin flip game...thats kind of weird

--Activision45 03:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Day the Music Died

An encyclopedia such as this ought to tell us when and where this phrase ("The Day the Music Died") was first used to refer to this event. Anyone have any info? --Keeves 17:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

  • As far as I know, Don McLean's song is the first usage of the term. --cholmes75 04:50, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Personally, I think there should be a name change. It should say "(The) Deaths of [names]," and the article title shouldn't be a pop culture name. In the article, though, there should be something noting that the accident was popularly called "The day the music died" and then explaining that further. It just isn't very academic for an encyclopedia to use a pop culture reference as a name for an actual incident like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.103.232 (talk) 13:55, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pilot?

What's his name? Thanos6 07:21, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What about the other day?

For many people who grew up in New York, or listening to New York City radio, the event described here is not the only event known as "The Day the Music Died". The other event is the end of Musicradio 77 WABC, on May 10, 1982. 121a0012 03:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nice

It's a good article, much better than I would've expected - so congrats to the editors who have worked on it. My only qualm is with the "conspiracy", it really needs to be sourced or removed, it just seems to play into the belief that every Wiki article has a Conspiracy section with crackpot blog theories or somesuch. Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead) 15:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Fixed it myself. Found reference to the fact that Holly had been sitting in the front seat next to the pilot at take-off, but was found strapped into a seat in the rear of the plane at the crash-site where the Bopper had originally been sitting, and that "supposedly" it would be nigh well impossible for two guys (especially one the size of the Bopper) to just "switch seats" in that sort of plane, it's just a blog post so not "trust-worthy" on its own, but worth digging for other possible verification of the fact. Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead) 17:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradicting

In "the crash" section it says that "The bodies of the three entertainers were thrown from the wreckage and lay nearby, while Peterson remained trapped inside." But in the "alternative theories" section it says "He also mentioned a possible belief that Richardson had survived the initial crash, since his body was found 12 metres from the crash-site, while the other three bodies were all within the plane." I'm not familiar enough with this topic but someone who is should fix that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cookiedog (talk • contribs) 16:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Fixed the error. Photographic evidence, along with the CAB Report and Coroner's Investigation place the bodies of Holly, Richardson and Valens outside of the wreckage and pilot Peterson within it. --Wurmis 19:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] alternative theories?

"alternative theories" section usually makes the article poor as they consider nonsense as solid "theories"

[edit] Error regarding the pilot

There is no such thing as a rating for nighttime flight in the United States. When one receives his or her pilot certificate, it will be marked "Night Flying Prohibited" if the pilot did not complete the required night flight time. This is not a rating however (such as an instrument or multiengine rating). If the pilot had not had this limitation, he would have been legal for night flight.

The snow likely would have reduced the visibility below the minimum required for flight under Visual Flight Rules (VFR), making Instrument Flight Rules mandatory (which requires a flight plan to be filed previously and an instrument clearance received prior to entering instrument meterological conditions). In this case, the pilot would have had to have an instrument rating and meet the recency of experience requirements for instrument flight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.32.192.33 (talk) 22:11, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Interesting stuff, but is it accurate for 1959? I find it odd that the article doesn't seem to give an actual cause of the crash at all. Even if the pilot didn't know how to properly use his instruments, that wouldn't cause him to point his plane straight down at the ground. 70.20.169.235 (talk) 03:58, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it very well might. See the entry on Sensory illusions in aviation. 24.14.119.135 (talk) 12:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Isn't this article missing something?

Why is there no reference to Big Bopper's son having a new autopsy done on him a year or so ago? It's mentioned in the biographical article for Richardson, but it should be mentioned here, too. 68.146.41.232 (talk) 03:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Added it. Thanks. →Wordbuilder (talk) 04:00, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The name of the plane

Is it true that the name of the plane was "American Pie" or is that just an urban myth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.91.9.219 (talk) 06:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe it is urban legend. However, if anyone has a good source that says otherwise, I'm open to it. →Wordbuilder (talk) 13:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Friends - I don't need a source on this one. Having been a student of aviation for 35 years, I can assure you that this is just a myth. I have seen the photos of the Bonanza wreckage (sans bodies) and I can assure you that it was a standardly-marked Beech 35 with only a regular FAA registration number on its aft fuselage. There is NO reason why a flight base operator-rental would have a name or nose art.

Just as an aside, I lived in Lubbock, Texas from 1961 to 1963, but I was only 5-7 years old; I do remember being taken to the original Hi-De-Ho Drive-In restaurant on 34th Street, where Buddy Holly hung out as a young man!

Mark Sublette (talk) 08:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette (talk) 08:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Renamed article

Arguably, it should say "Deaths", rather than "Death". Also, at only 10 words, it's not a long enough title and also leaves out a body. Adding the pilot's name would make it an even dozen words, and easy for anyone to find. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)