Talk:The Day of Black Sun

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[edit] Display Picture

Umm... Can we do this? I mean, the picture we put on the article is a screenshot from an "illegal" episode, so how're we going to justify that, but not put the plot synopsis? Just thought it needed mentioning. Pejmany (talk) 00:30, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

The two halves of this episode are both the same, Book 3 Chapter 10. I made this picture of the title cards of the episode's two halves to prove this. The Day of Black Sun, Part 2: The Eclipse needs to be merged in with this article. ShadowUltra 21:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Please do not post screen capture images from unreleased content. It is a copyright violation. This merge should not have gone through until the episode aired. Until then, it is impossible to say whether they will keep this as one single episode or as two. Until then, anything you have seen could change. 春Harukaze風 14:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Actually, they should have been merged becasue neither TVGuide.com or Nick confirmed that it was two episodes or the subtitles of said episodes. -- The Placebo Effect 16:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
You sure? I swore I knew the episode subtitles before the leak happened. Maybe I'm remembering poorly. I was largely in favor of the merge, to mirror the two-episode-but-one-article The Siege of the North, but I still wanted to wait until the episode(s) aired before doing anything. 春Harukaze風 17:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Stop edit warring! You guys keep going back and forth without any real consensus. Discuss the issues first, and then decide how to act! — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 01:59, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

There's little to discuss. We don't use illegal stuff. Period, end of story, if you disagree you're wrong.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 03:46, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok do we or do we nor merge because he's right, we can't go on like this—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tosta mista (talk • contribs) 15:49, November 17, 2007
Shouldn't it say episode 10 and 11 on the right side for episodes since this is one-hour long episode?76.240.221.228 (talk) 03:37, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I already stated that the openings of both episodes display the following:

"[First thirty minutes]"Book 3: Fire Chapter Ten The Day of Black Sun, Part 1: The Invasion
[Second thirty minutes]"Book 3: Fire Chapter Ten The Day of Black Sun, Part 2: The Eclipse"
Nonetheless, I understand if this is not taken as proof because of legal reasons, and I apologize for showing that picture. However, it is original research to assume they are two seperate episodes-while history has shown that hour long episodes are really two thirty minute episodes combined, Nickelodeon never says they are two episodes combined as one.ShadowUltra (talk) 06:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The two chapters are separate! Part 2 just started airing in Canada and it says that it's CHAPTER 11. And I've got proof! What say you all now? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/Greymon/ch11.jpg Modem (talk) 01:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, given that everywhere else in the world its been one chapter, I'd say somebody screwed up and it doesn't mean a heck of a lot.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 04:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Most places had them air the episodes together. Canada has the same version as the U.S. I'm 100% positive that it's chapter 11. I'm mean seriously, look at the screencap. You can't screw up something like this. Modem (talk) 06:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Not true. They aired separately in several countries, and in each of them both parts were marked chapter ten. So far, this is the only anomaly.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 17:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Then explain why the official Nick Avatar website has it as Chapter 11. http://www.nick.com/shows/avatar/index.jhtml And if you can't see the flash site, then here's an image: http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ch11hafq3.jpg Modem (talk) 05:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, yea, i kinda don't know how to argue that point, i mean its always possible that a mistake was made, but, that IS an official source. So, i think because of that, regardless of how it was displayed on TV, i think we might have to go with that. Although, thinking about it, In a press release, Nick stated that there would still be twenty chapters, but 21 episodes, so, i mean, is Nick contradicting its self? Rau J16 06:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Clearly we have some conflicting information. Nickelodeon's website indeed classifies the episode as two distinct chapters, yet anyone outside of Canada can watch the episode and verify that it only constitutes a single chapter. Thus I feel, given our current sources, it is impossible to make an absolute judgment. However, I think most contributors would agree that the majority of evidence confirms "The Day of Black Sun" is a single chapter. Hence, this article should reflect those sources. Although future publications may disprove this information, I think it is the best choice we can currently make. That being said, Modem, I appreciate the effort you have made arguing your point. This discussion will undoubtably improve the article's accuracy. But until new information becomes available that refutes what was aired outside of Canada (e.g, Nickelodeon admits the title card was a typo), we must keep both parts as Chapter 10. b.y.w (talk) 06:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Hummm....well, its fairly obvious somebody screwed up somewhere, the problem now is where. I think the best course may be to just maintain the status quo until either there's some sort of official announcement clarifying things (doubtful, but you never know) or the next episode airs (and which case we can see its chapter number and derive this one from that).--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 23:08, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

YTV has aired the "Western Air Temple" today and guess what? It's Chapter 12.Modem (talk) 02:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

a source? screenshot, or official website. also, that might just be in canada, just like DoBs being two chapters. Rau J16 02:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

A screenshot of the title card? I don't have that. A screenshot of the episode? Can do. http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=131zj6.jpg And you can check the various forums. TV.com, toonzone, gamefaqs. Seems like the only site that isn't aware is Avatar-Spirit.

And that excuse about Canada being "different" is getting very tiresome. We get the exact same episodes as U.S. residents. It's getting to the point where you editors seem to have a problem with Canada. Even when I posted the official site back then you still wouldn't change it. Modem (talk) 02:49, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The official site contradicted direct word from nick, thats why it was rejected, and its not our fault Canada is different, it just is. Now, about the screen shot, i have seen it (recently) and i think it is real, and have no objections to the creation of the page, my only problem is the chapter number. Rau J16 02:59, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

You would think that Nick's official site would overrule whatever they said previously. I mean honestly, it's been two weeks and they still have yet to change the episodes listing. Modem (talk) 03:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Why would the site overrule what they say, also, they probably dont even know about the mistake. but when they were contacted about the issue of chapter number they said that it was one chapter, that there would still be twenty, and that their were 21 episodes overall. considering that, it is hard to say that they are two chapters, unless you are Canadian. Rau J16 03:17, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I've got the title card now: http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap231836pn5.png You can ask for any other proof from the episode you want, I can get it for you. Modem (talk) 08:25, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right. Now we have a source, so now we can change things. Of course, if you'd prefer to just keep on spinning paranoid fantasies about editors hating Canada, that's your prerogative.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for acting like jerk, but when people start accusing me, like for example shopping the original pic, I get sort of antsy. And after the Official site source was ignored, ticked me off even more. But what's done is done. Modem (talk) 21:28, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

And i apologize if my accusations were a bit harsh. but this is settled then, DoBS is two chapters and Wester Air Temple is twelve? Rau J16 06:52, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved - Why?

It was fine as it was, why was it moved.. --Neilmodi (talk) 01:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

It dosn't seem to be two seperate episode,s its, atleast on the cox guide, a single 1 hour epsiode in movie format.--Cody6 (talk) 01:23, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Both nick.com and tvguide.com call it, "Day of Black Sun" so we use that name. The Placebo Effect (talk) 01:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
But isnt it still considered two episodes (50 and 51).Rosario lopez (talk) 04:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but it's 1 chapter (10)75.84.79.173 (talk) 05:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Cox guide is a diffrent version of tv guide, it's better then tv guide--Cody6 (talk) 13:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Uh, excuse me, the network itself calls it "The Day of Black Sun" and the countries in which it has aired call it the same thing. This mess of redirects needs to be fixed immediately. ShadowUltra (talk) 13:26, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

That was not what I was asking but someone moved it back, so thanks. --Neilmodi (talk) 22:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I attempted to correct the issue, but in an amazing amount of stupidity I forgot to move the associated talk page. Now we've got a mess of redirects again...ShadowUltra (talk) 03:20, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Meh, don't worry about it. The thing airs in a couple hours, then we can move it back and move on with life.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title Woes

The constant moving and redirects is really getting out of hand. How about we just use the name they present on the episode's title card when the episode airs? Being the direct source it will trump every other source we have. Any other thoughts? Ub3rn008 (talk) 08:58, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Or look at the online video or the title card in the info box there and get it now.--Cody6 (talk) 12:40, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ep/Prod number

I've fixed these, this is two epsiodes. That fact has been confirmed by Nickelodeon, so there's no need to wait for the epsiodes to air.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 22:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I have a question: Even though it's two episodes, isn't The Day of Black Sun still only chapter 10 and The Western Air Temple is chapter 11? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.127.28.130 (talk) 16:06, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

No, that ruling has been revoked, DoBS is two chapters, with Western Airtemple being Chapter 12 Rau J16 21:57, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] could we make the plot now?

it's dec 1 already. could we make the plot now?

Absoultly. Its aired somewhere in the world, so anyone removing things because their spoilers or whatever is wrong, plain and simple.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Overwritten

This has got to be one of the worst wikipedia articles about a TV show I have ever seen. It is full of usless information like "Sokka sighs" and "Toph says: sweet". This isn't a description of the plot, it seems like the script for the episode.

Well, then fix it! The text is only a few hours old--sometimes it takes a little longer than that to get something nice and polished. AndperseAndy 04:50, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, this page is horrible, i am going to be spending a late night on this article, i can tell you that. Also please sign your comments with "~~~~" Rau J16 01:28, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I've rewritten the plot summary, but i still feel it needs a lot of work. Rau J16 07:19, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I completely agree. I've taken the liberty of rewriting some of Part 2. However, most of my changes are just re-wordings of what was previously there. What we really need to do is remove unnecessary details and interpretations. For example, some contributors seem to believe Zuko was either "smiling" or "looked determined" at the episode's closing; I, however, can detect no such expressions. Thus, the information is too subjective to include in the article. Unfortunately, it is currently final exams week for me, so I'll be offline for the next couple days. b.y.w (talk) 21:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, i saw your edits, and appreciate some constructive edits to the page, good luck with your exams(mine aren't till X-Mas). Rau J16 23:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Did a lot of rewording, and brought the plot down to wikipedia standards(400-700 words), but thats per section, not total. if you can find a way to get it down that far, then be my guest, i will praise you highly if you can. Rau J16 09:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

This page seems to be under heavy edits by IP addresses, which rarely contribute anything worth while to the article. I request that this page be placed under semi-protection, does anyone else agree? Rau J16 01:24, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I edited under an IP for a long, time, and have only recently joined wikipedia, and while I do agree that IPs do contribute useless things, many are actually trying to help and many do write things of worth. And even if they don't, as long as they weren't deliberately trying to be stupid or harm the article, they were just being bold. I feel that we should include the IP editors as they have the same capacity of registered editors to contribute positive things. And remember that YOU as well can edit the article if you feel that another edit is not up to wikipedia standards. So unless we have people continually harming the article, then perhaps the page could be semi'd. Ub3rn008 06:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
while you bring up a good point, this page IS under heavy edits by ip's who do not check edit histories, or the talk pages to see if an issue is being discussed. Most of these edits are reverted because they are (A)previously removed, (B) not sourced, or (C) unneeded, or vandalism. Rau J16 11:29, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures?

Shouldn't we at least have the picture of Ozai striking Zuko? That is the moment that defines the episode. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.222.104.142 (talk) 21:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

We dont need pictures. Rau J16 23:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
That's ridiculous. Every other episode has images, there's no reason for this one not to.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 18:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Doesn't mean we need them, i mean im all for them, but we do not NEED them. plus, if you guys need an image, i can get it, just tell me the scene you want, but because i'm not good at 'fair-use' you will have to do it. Rau J16 23:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The only one I want (as original poster) is when Ozai strikes Zuko with lightning. That would be fine, and perhaps down the page some, put Aang kissing Katara, but Im fairly neutral on that photo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.227.0.197 (talk) 21:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Like i said earlier, i can get the actual image, but i cannot do the 'Fair-Use' part, so, if you can, or know some one who can let me know and ill up some images. Rau J16 11:37, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Put the picture on the page, i'll do the fair use stuff--Tosta mista (talk) 18:37, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd wait on that. Look at the project page and you'dd see that the season 1 articles are in the process of being merged. That means the pictures will have to be removed cause we can't have an image for each episode. The Placebo Effect (talk) 19:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, O.K., i'll wait. Rau J16 22:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Her would be the picture I wanted: http://screenshots.avatarspiritmedia.net/311/175.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.66.134.228 (talk) 04:56, 12 December 2007 (UTC) We decided to wait because the episode pages are getting merged, and that would make putting the image up pointless. Rau J16 11:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Cast Box

The "Guest Stars" section is getting too long, i am going to add a cast box below the plot. Rau J16 22:45, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Done. Please edit it as you see fit. Rau J16 00:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Avatar the invasion titlecard.png

Image:Avatar the invasion titlecard.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:05, 19 December 2007 (UTC)