Talk:The Cruel Sea (film)

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[edit] Pennant numbers

Anybody want to compare it to other films dealing with convoy/ASW ops, like "The Enemy Below"? Think it merits mention? Also, anybody able to say if HMS Crocus (which portrayed Compass Rose) actually wore pennant number K51, which she does in the film? Trekphiler 10:27, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

On a matter of how the ships were ":cast" for "The Cruel Sea" the detail is even more confusing as learned in March 2006 from Mike Raymond, Secretary of the Flower Class Corvettes Association, and Mark Walter of the Royal Navy nets ring. I have had several phone and e-mail exchanges to clarify this and referenced them in the Wikipedia article and ensured they checked my entry and exposed it to others on their forums. We know that the ships of the film were HMS Compass Rose and HMS Saltash Castle - HMS Saltash in the novel. In the film, HMS Compass Rose is portrayed by the Flower Class Corvette HMS Coreopsis (K32), which had been sold to the Hellenic Navy after the war, and had her name changed to Kriezis. In the early 1950s she was brought back from Greece to be scrapped but hired for use in the film. Unless you know better and you may well (things are very confused by the fog of wartime security, people's flawed recollections, and the growing mix of actual documentation and fictional representation of that period. I thought that the picture I've been given permission to use was a "studio" picture of ex-HMS Coreopsis acting as Compass Rose. You say the filmed ship is K51. I must look again at the DVD tomorrow. I thought that the bow pennant number in the thumbnail in the article was K49 which is the pennant of the real HMS Crocus - which could not have been in the film as according to Mike Raymond's AFCC records Crocus was being scrapped in Hongkong in 1951 when"Cruel Sea" was filming (or am I confused about dates). We know Coreopsis is Compass Rose as sure as Sean Connery is James Bond (well at first!). So is the thumbnail a studio shot for "The Cruel Sea" or a photo that was taken despite strict regulations or with special Admiralty permission of HMS Crocus - if that is K49 on that wave obscured bow. I will keep researching. The identity of the second ship in the film is more clear and I haven't inserted a photo to confuse or clarify the record. The film's HMS Saltash Castle was "played" by a Castle Class corvette, HMS Porchester Castle pennant F362). Even here there's some confusion because there was a real HMS Saltash but she was a minesweeper and not a corvette - though most of these vessels were designed for anti-submarine warfare. My original interest in this was in learning more about the RNVR veteran Denys Rayner DSC & Bar (I have started a Wikipedia article about Rayner), who was a family friend, boat designer, novelist - "The Enemy Below" among others - and historian of the Battle of the North Atlantic as well as participant. Denys by writing both as historian and novelist helps compound the confusion of fact and fiction that some refer to as "the fog of war". If you go to http://www.fcca.demon.co.uk/ you will see that HMS Crocus had pennant K49 while K51 was the pennant number of HMS Rockrose.

Sibadd 21:28, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I've now looked again at the film. It's clear that photos is from the film - though it might still just be inserted documentary. The image of the corvette in tempestuous seas appears around the 16th minute of the film (as well as in the trailer). I would have said it was unmistakable. I am not sure where you got pennant number K51. The pennant number is clearly K49, but how come the ship is actually Coreopsis - pennant 32 - and not Crocus who actually carried that number on her pennant? This is the sort of thing that makes Wikipedia and the open source philosophy such fun! There's a helpful account of the making of the film "The Cruel Sea" by George Perry which includes how Compass Rose was cast [1].Sibadd 18:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Can I summarize this discussion, to make it a bit clearer?
1st comment:-
HMS Crocus played Compass Rose.
Compass Rose wore K51.
Q:Was Crocus really K51?
(no sources)
2nd comment:-
No, HMS Coreopsis (K32) played Compass Rose.
The photo is a still from the film, and shows Compass Rose as K49.
K49 was Crocus, but,
Crocus was scrapped at Hong Kong in 1951, so couldn’t have been Compass Rose.
K51 was HMS Rockrose.
The source for all this is the FCCA.
Is that fair? Swanny18 14:03, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

"Is that fair"? Whew. I must be stupid or something. I recall the #as K51, but I didn't have the DVD/VC in front of me when I posted... As for the rest, I'm satisfied you've covered the bases [!]. Thanks. Bravo! Trekphiler 08:38, 15 August 2007 (UTC) (Jeez, I love this place...)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:The Cruel Sea Poster.jpg

Image:The Cruel Sea Poster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)