Talk:The Conqueror

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[edit] N/A

I don't really think that the term 'incubation period' is exactly applicable to the development of non-contagious diseases like cancer, but I don't know of a term to improve this. I do think that in this usage that incubation refers to incubation of a pathogen, but alternatives like 'waiting period' or 'development period' sound even more wrong.

Rlquall, 18:15 8 Jul 2004 UTC

[edit] More smoked than just Wayne

While John Wayne was known to have been a heavy smoker, somehow I think it was fairly well-known that Moorehead and Hayward, particualary Moorehead, lit up pretty often, too. Given the era, somehow I would guess that all of those named smoked at least some. Rlquall 12:59, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cause of Death 1) Smoking or 2) The Conqueror

Okay, for the fun of it, I decided to test a theory. I picked another popular movie at random from about the same time period as The Conqueror, I picked the The Caine Mutiny. Of the 42 actors listed in the credits at IMDb for The Caine Mutiny, it only list the cause of death (or that have died) for 15 of them. Of those 15, 8 died of cancer, 1 of a brain tumor, and 1 of leukemia. That is 53% outright of cancer, and 66.7.% of cancer related diseases.

  • Filming Locations for The Caine Mutiny (1954):
    • Los Angeles, California, USA
    • Naval Station Treasure Island, San Francisco, California, USA
    • Pearl Harbor, O`ahu, Hawaii, USA
    • Yosemite National Park, California, USA

I suppose Yosemite gave those people cancer?

WikiDon 23:42, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

I say it was the frickin' strawberries. Wyss 23:44, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Test Two

For a second test I picked The Swan (1956). Only 14 actors members are listed. 8 have cause of death (or have died). 4 died of cancer. 50%......again....hummm...?

  • Filming Locations for The Swan (1956):
    • Biltmore Estate - 1 Approach Road, Asheville, North Carolina, USA

Must have been downwind of a tobacco cigar rolling factory?

WikiDon 23:59, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Looks like they're still proud of that old pile of bricks in Ashville [1]. Wyss 00:09, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I think there's a hole in the "logic" that smoking caused these cancers rather than exposure. Smoking is known to cause or contribute to mouth, throat and lung cancers (amomg other sometimes fatal respiratory diseases), yet Hayward died of brain cancer, Armedariz was terminal with kidney and bone cancers, and Moorehead died of uterine cancer. I know of no oncologist who would attempt an argument that smoking was the cause of these deaths. 12.22.250.4 21:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
yeah, but I know many anti-smoking ads that use that logic 69.219.238.88 02:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
RE: I think there's a hole in the "logic"....That is the POINT! WikiDon 08:39, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Those are interesting bits of fact. Cancer is the cause of death of a lot of people in this country, but from a statistical viewpoint, the figures are just that - figures. I don't think one can conclude coincidence or causation from looking at the listed deaths of 15 of 42 persons, or 8 of 14 persons, without doing comparative studies of the deaths of the others, and against the population as a whole from the same time period. In any case, it at least deserves a mention since it has been at least an urban legend for at least 30 years. Wildhartlivie 18:40, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Then we need to find credible outside sources, and quote & cite those sources, and show BOTH sides of the story. When need to say: "XYZ says: blah blah blah. But, ABC counters with: blue blue blue." WikiDon 18:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another test

The Conqueror/Caine Mutiny test above doesn't include the crews. I ran the numbers including the crews and found that 23% of Caine's cast and crew had died of cancer issues (14 of 61), while only 12% of Conqueror's cast and crew (9/73) had died of cancer issues. However, the average age of death from cancer was 68 for Conqueror and 74 for Caine. It must be noted that Caine was made two years earlier, which I suppose could be construed to mean people had two more years to die in. (Coincidentally, both films had actors who committed suicide after a cancer diagnosis, Pedro Armendariz and Richard Farnsworth.)

I ran another test -- this one potentially more telling. I ran the same numbers for The King and Four Queens, which was made the same year as The Conqueror, but more importantly was also filmed in St. George, Utah. Only two out of 32 cast and crew (6%) were listed as cancer casualties, but the average age at death for them was 62. One of them, Chuck Roberson, was on both films. There are two or three other films filmed within the same year or so in the same location, Run of the Arrow being most prominent among them. I didn't run the numbers on them, but a glance at their cast list suggests relatively few cancer deaths, certainly quite few within a short period after the film.

There is nothing scientific about these tests. They're merely suggestive. And The Conqueror not only shot almost entirely in the one location, but brought dirt back to the studio for use in interiors. Some of the other St. George-shot films may have only been there a few days. Also, the crews listed for any of these films on IMDb are but a handful of the people who would actually have been on set. Add those additional people to the ones listed for whom no cause of death is noted, and the figures start to be extremely unreliable in terms of whether there was a real effect from radiation. But, as I say, mild inferences can be made, and it looks more and more like The Conqueror death myth is just that. Monkeyzpop 07:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plot, etc.

This article needs more about the film.

How did Powell (an actor who had one previous directing credit) get to direct such an all-star vehicle ? -- Beardo 14:07, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Downwind?

The article mentions twice that the movie was shot "downwind" of the nuclear testing site. I seriously doubt that the movie was always downwind of the testing site the entire time shooting took place. Can't we just change it to "near" the nuclear testing site? DarthJesus 06:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Checking the article of St. George, Utah, apparently fallouts from one Nevada nuclear test was blown by wind to the filming location. So we need to better word the sentence, rather than simply say "near". Also, it is possible that the area of St. George could be usually "downwind" due to the local weather pattern. I think it can be kept as is. --Revth 05:07, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

'Downwind' refers to the fact that nuclear tests were never conducted when the wind was blowing toward Las Vegas but tests were conducted if there was a mild breeze (15 mph) or lower blowing toward the east or northeast (a west or southwest wind). There were a number of tests in 1955 (14) where radioactive dust was (or could have been) blown 'downwind' but only one in 1956 (January). 76.20.213.245 22:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:The Conqueror DVD cover.jpg

Image:The Conqueror DVD cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:38, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

I added the NPOV tag, this article is almost entirely about the bad aspects of the film, the cancer controversey and how bad it was. Production info and other pertinent information is unrepresented. See undue weight. There needs to be more balance here. Even if it was a bad bad film. IvoShandor 13:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I do not believe that NPOV is violated here. Along with the cancer allegations, there is substantial information about the film in the article. The infobox gives the director, writer, actors, cinematographer, editor, distributor, running time, producers and language. Also, additional information about the film is given in the "Cancer controversy" section. -- Kjkolb 08:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC)