Talk:The Chimes of Big Ben

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Leading into the dialogue exchange quoted in this episode's Trivia section (which begins "I am definitely an optimist....") is the following:

Prisoner: Has it ever occurred to you that you're just as much a prisoner as I am?

McKern/#2: Ah, my dear chap, of course. I know too much. We're both lifers. I am definitely an optimist....

The irrefutable requirements of this--which as far as I can tell (and that is an EXTREMELY long distance) no one other than myself has picked up on--are highly significant. This is simply impossible to intepret any way other than that Leo McKern was at the time this scene was filmed expected to do at least several successive episodes as #2, if not the entire run. However, the official history of this programme has filming beginning with the first location shoot, the only one which qualifies as principal photography with several significant cast members and much recording of dialogue involved, on the grounds of the Hotel Portmeirion. Specifically, the company are said to have done exterior scenes for Arrival, Free for All, Dance of the Dead, and Checkmate,as well as Chimes.... After this, the cast and crew did these episodes' interiors in MGM's Borehamwood, England studios, and continued there for the rest of the run. Furthermore, those aforementioned cast members include Guy Doleman (albeit seen in one single location shot, but that's exactly what it is), Eric Portman, and Mary Morris, #2s all (one could also include Rachel Herbert, given the climactic twist to Free...). The real kicker here is that VERY little of Chimes... was filmed in Wales specifically for it (as opposed to several standard stock shots of walking people, moving taxis, and flying helicopters); certainly the quoted scene we started with is sound stage work (scenes outside of the Exhibition Hall were made at a location much closer at hand, which was also used for the outside of the Recreation Hall and the helicopter pad in The Schizoid Man, as well as the butcher's, the baker's and the candlestick maker's in The Girl Who Was Death, and the Western town in Living in Harmony). Accepting the official history at face value, we are asked to believe that a scene with The Prisoner and McKern's #2 agreeing that the latter is never leaving The Village was filmed with footage of at least THREE other #2s already in the proverbial can! I do not see how this is possible, and say that the studio work for Chimes... MUST have been shot BEFORE that first trip to Wales, probably as a pilot (McGoohan would have talked Lew Grade through a screening of a very rough cut, in this scenario). The only part of the above that is speculation rather than facts or deduction from said facts is the idea that it was a pilot, but I see no plausible alternative interpretation there. So what is the verdict about some mention of this on the page itself? Ted Watson 19:30, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

As regards Wikipedia, sorry, but this is original research. As you yourself note, no one else has proposed or "picked up on" this theory. On the subject of the theory itself... You say it's "simply impossible to interpret" McKern's dialogue as meaning anything than that he will be in the Village for the long haul, if not for life. Yet we know that there is much more to the organization that runs The Village than solely The Village itself. When McKern's #2 acknowledges that he too is a prisoner, there's no reason to think he must be talking about being a prisoner of the place, rather than the organization. -- Antaeus Feldspar 21:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

A prisoner of the "organization" rather than of the "place" is an interesting theory, and I will give it serious consideration, but at first glance there seems to me to be a difference between the subjective perspective of trying to make sense of the conversation within story context after the event, and the objective perspective of trying to make sense out of it in terms of what the creative team was doing and could reasonably be suggested to have been thinking at the time of filming. Also, remember the dichotomy between the official production history which has this as a "major Portmeirion episode" and the irrefutable fact that it actually has less footage shot FOR IT there than Hammer Into Anvil or It's Your Funeral. Oh, yes, I do grant the point of your "original research" objection. I almost forgot that. Sorry. Ted Watson 22:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Relevant to the above, I just noticed a Trivia note on this page, which flatly states that this episode WAS the pilot. A check of "History" shows that one Jason Palpatine revised the note to state that Chimes rather than Arrival was the pilot (this is further indicated to be a minor edit, but I certainly wouldn't have checked that if I had done it myself). Glad to see that somebody agreed with my logic. Thanks, Jason. Ted Watson 18:24, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can see, NONE of the location footage featuring the principal cast was shot in Portmeirion. The exterior of the hall certainly isn't a Portmeirion building. Lee M 17:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC)