Talk:The Black Parade

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My Chemical Romance Collaboration of the Month
 This article was a past My Chemical Romance Collaboration of the Month.
Good article The Black Parade was a nominee for good article, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
WikiProject:My Chemical Romance This article is within the scope of the My Chemical Romance WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage and detail regarding My Chemical Romance. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Albums, an attempt at building a useful resource on recordings from a variety of genres. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale.
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The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit · refresh)

Article requirements:
YesY All the start class criteria
YesY A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details
YesY At least one section of prose (excluding the lead section)
YesY A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs
YesY A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians
YesY Categorisation at least by artist and year
YesY A casual reader should learn something about the album.

The article is B-class worthy now! To improve the album more to reach the availability to reach a GA status, a section about the album's production should be included as well. The reviews in the infobox state: Include no more than ten reviews. When choosing which reviews to include, consider the notability of the review source and keeping a neutral point of view. For older albums, try to include not just contemporary but also some more recent reviews." so that has to be fixed. Also, examine WP:Lead to make sure the lead paragraph of the article is appropriate for the articles length paragraph wise. A section that will no doubt be vandalized to infinity, but a section on lyrical and genre/sound themes on the album will also have to be created. I wouldn't quote the band for sources in this style as many bands do not like to be stapled into genre's, but more from a critical perspective. Otherwise, this is shaping up good! Keep it up! Andrzejbanas (talk) 03:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Black Parade article.
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Contents

[edit] Influences

Personally I think it is obvious that their biggest influence of all is Green Day. The first thing that I came to think of when I saw this band was that they reminded me of Green Day in too many ways for it to be just a coincidence. Same record label, same producer, same type of rock opera, same looks, similar style of videos (colors, lights etc). The music itself is not too similar but there are some that are obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.11.182 (talk) 16:28, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


citation needed for Smashing Pumpkins influences: http://www.musicpix.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=41&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 75.162.122.157 (talk) 22:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Songs

What are the sources for the new B-Sides added?-iamyoda

I can't see any sources either Blkeddie! 07:04, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I was just about to ask this as well. Think we should remove them for now? TeamOverload 15:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cancer

I have removed the following paragraph from the main section of the article. I don't see why it's relevant, and if it is, I don't think it belongs in the intro.

In an interview with the band released on iTunes in the "Welcome to the Black Parade- EP", the band discussed a collective favorite, "Cancer." They believed that they had written one of the best songs of all time. One of the band members stated, "It's my favorite song. By far. I think this is my favorite song actually that I've ever heard. Not even just the songs that we've done, I mean it's by far my favorite that we've ever done, but, I think it's probably my favorite song of all time."

As far as I can tell, this paragraph does little more than promote the album- or, on some level, I suppose it makes the band look fairly pretentious, especially since the member who praised Cancer so highly isn't named. --Moralis 19:30, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow, how did I miss that? Thanks for removing it, it sounds ridiculous. I have a habit of skipping over bullshit, that must be why I missed it.--JUDE talk 20:03, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Image

I have removed the following section from the beginning of the article:

With the launch of the album, My Chemical Romance essentially became a new band, known as the Black Parade. The Black Parade are the band's alter egos. Along with a new identity, the band got a new look, sporting new hairstyles, most notably singer Gerard Way's platinum blonde hair (now dyed black again), along with marching band-style uniforms designed by Academy Award-winning designer Colleen Atwood, whose work has been featured in several Tim Burton movies, as well as the film Memoirs of a Geisha.

The reason I removed it: I have only seen this idea mentioned as (obviously nonserious) speculation by a critic in one review. I think it could stand if it were re-worded, and it would require some sourcing. --Moralis 19:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

While I do not believe that this information is needed in it's own section I do believe that the fact that The Black Parade is the band's alter ego needs to be mentioned. There are sources as this came up on the My Chemical Romance article before and a quick Google search helped me find some interviews. I think the real thing is I don't think all that information needs to be there, perhaps shrink it enough to add it to the intro. and of course sources.  Orfen User Talk | Contribs 20:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
No. Maybe we could mention it in passing in this article, and maybe get a little more into it for the My Chemical Romance one. mcr616 Speak! 20:55, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archive

The NPOVD dispute seems to be over, so I've archived the page again (see Archive 3). --Moralis (talk) 17:19, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Singles

I have added and sourced Teenagers as a single. Hope the source I put is reliable. TeamOverload 12:52, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I think there's a general consensus that forums aren't terribly reliable. We're looking for a source in some kind of press. My Chem's site would be good, as well. As of now, Googling several phrases, such as "My Chemical Romance Teenagers April 23" and "Teenagers My Chemical Romance April 23rd" yields two results: that AbsolutePunk thread is one, which doesn't cite a source that I can see, so it's pretty much just another rumor. The other is a Frank Iero fan site, which again, appears to have been listing mere rumor.
Until the single is either released or an official announcement is made, we're not going to be able to list it here, unfortunately. --Moralis (talk) 13:03, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
What about Disenchanted? It sas so on vh1.com search, and why wouldn't vh1 be a reliable source? And "Mama" was confirmed also as the next single on BBC Radio, and then it was played.
The VH1.com search yields an album listing that contains no information except for a 4/2/07 release date. As April 2nd has come and gone without a release, and that listing is completely devoid of any other content, it's safe to say that the source isn't reliable =P It's probable that it was added after a rumor spread. I don't know. Regardless it's obviously not referring to something you're going to find in a record store.
We can't verify what happened on the radio, but even if we could- we still wouldn't use that as a source. Whatever we use, we must be able to trace the announcement back to 1) MCR, 2) the record label, distributor, etc., or 3) an actual album release, in which case we probably won't need a source anymore, as anyone'll be able to verify it by checking amazon.com, the iTunes store, or their local record shop.
As it stands right now, the next single hasn't been announced in any official way and Wikipedia can't list it until it does (WP:SOURCE). People looking for My Chem rumors are probably looking for a fansite, which we are decidedly not. --Moralis (talk) 20:24, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
So we're lowered down to Mama or Teenagers or no next single at all —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iamyoda (talk • contribs) 20:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

Teenagers was added to this page last night and now it can stay there as it has been properly sourced, or at least better sourced. I also added it to the My Chem Template. Are we agreeing to let it stay now? TeamOverload 15:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

No. We cannot use the caption from a photo of Gerard with some cheerleaders as "proof" that Teenagers will be the next single. The FMQB listing is not sourced to anything. I'm removing it again.
I cannot stress this enough: valid sources must be explicit, transparent statements by a representative of the band until the single is released. These sources, like all the others we've seen so far, are simply jumping on the rumor bandwagon. Googling things like "My Chemical Romance Teenagers Single" still doesn't turn up anything but rumor.
Wikipedia is not a publisher of rumor. Please don't add the single again until it's really announced. Keeping the single off the list until we're 100% sure it's accurate is not hurting us in any way. What if Teenagers isn't the next single, though? Or what if there isn't another single?
There's a reason Wikipedia doesn't publish retractions: we go out of our way not to include anything in articles that isn't 100% verifiable. Please see WP:NOR, [[WP:V] and WP:RS. From now on I think it would be in everbody's best interests to discuss sources on this page before adding Teenagers to the article again. --Moralis (talk) 19:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure we all know that teenagers is going to be the next single, but I admire what you're doing. I also agree with you. There should be more sources, because there is a *shadow* of a doubt that they could have told everyone at the shoot to say it was teenagers even though it really isn't. Who knows, they could have even recorded two videos that day to cover it up. We all know that MCR can be really really tricky with us. So, in short, I agree with you wholeheartedly.--JUDE talk 20:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that they would go through all the trouble to release it on the radio with the swears edited, then take a picture at the music video, and then release the song on their website for nothing. But I do agree with the people who say there is no real proof in a way too.

[edit] Genre

I believe Gerard said that the CD was an Art Rock record in an MTV interview. Sorry, no source like an article or something, but he did say it was an art rock record. -- 24.222.102.218 17:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The genre's for all My Chemical Romance related articles was decided at Talk:My Chemical Romance. It is now archived at Talk:My Chemical Romance/Archive 2. If you wish to change the genre I'd start a discussion at the My Chemical Romance talk page, however we decided upon this way so we can source all the subgenres and their main genre as alternative rock be the only one listed in the infobox.  Orfen User Talk | Contribs 23:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)


My Chemical Romance borders on the edge of emo but the band disagrees that they aren't emo Anarchistleader777 14:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the band really defines what genre they're in. mcr616 Speak! 19:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

It says emo, but i really cant be bothered going into the talk pages and seeing if it was agreed that they are emo, so im asking someone else to do it. Blkeddie! 15:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Their genre is currently Alternative Rock, but in the past their genre was Post-Hardcore.--Lynx Austin 21:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adding tracks

Could we add the parts of the trivia sections to new pages for dead! and this is how i disappear? also for disenchanted for its history of shut up and play. i know it is very little to put in for a new whole page but i'd like a page nevertheless —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blkeddie! (talk • contribs) 07:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

No, the Disenchanted/Dead!/etc. articles were deleted already. I'd think it would just be better to keep it in a trivia section. mcr616 Speak! 20:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Track Information

I just found a place where I can get all the information about the tracks...how can I make a separate page for all of the tracks? (eg. Mama, Cancer, House of Wolves, Dead!...) Lolagirl 02:53, 1 June 2007 (UTC)lolagirl

It would be cool if you could make them, but they're not notable enough to have their own articles. Sorry! mcr616 Speak! 19:47, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protest

I think if My Chemical Romance songs don't deserve their own pages, then neither do ANY songs that aren't singles. Like the Beatles, Elvis, etc. Because who gets to say if a song is notable enough or not? I present a protest: Allow mcr songs to have their own page or take down all others that aren't singles. I'll have a petition ready soon. 209.247.5.55 19:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but no matter how many sigs you get, it's not going to make a difference. WP:N is a policy, and you'd never get enough consensus to change it. Sorry ! mcr616 Speak! 23:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
And thats how the world works, isn't it? No one can change anything bad no matter how many people think its wrong. Thats life for ya. 209.247.5.55 02:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
What? This isn't an evil conspiracy... it's just that we have policies against this. Could you imagine if any song ever written each had its own page on Wikipedia? Holy crap! Who's going to maintain them all, and what's more, what's in them? Whereas I and I know a lot of others know a lot about the background of each of the songs, unfortunately unless it's something really notable, it doesn't belong in a separate page on Wikipedia. Perhaps you could try other websites? CattleGirl talk 08:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
What makes the other songs more notable than any of the songs done by My Chem? I'm not really sure, so maybe if you could explain to me why a concept album by The Beatles is more important than another concept album by My Chemical Romance maybe I'd accept the fact we don't have a page for every My Chemical Romance song.
I truly don't understand why Cancer, Mama, Disenchanted or Dead! don't each have a page. And even though they currently aren't singles, I'm also guessing that all of the songs made by the Beatles weren't released either.
I do understand why we don't have a page for every single song on Wikipedia, but those songs made by those artists haven't made a concept album and don't have real meaning in the song.
My Chem is equally as important as Elvis was, they have saved lives, they've put a meaning to everyones life, and they're there for those people. Blkeddie! 04:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you completely that MCR is equally if not more important than elvis ever was (you can kind of gather I'm not a huge elvis fan...) but the fact remains that while each of their songs has a background and a story to tell, that by no means distinguishes them from every other song anyone has written. It's not based on importance, it's based on notablility. Although I along with you would like to see individual pages for these songs (and there used to be pages for these songs), but it really does violate our music policy- for instance (although it should have) Mama has never been no 1 on any charts, or won awards, or has been significantly covered. If it starts doing these things, then we can include them.
It's really just that we have to join the line somewhere. If we allow every song off a concept album to have its own page, then it really comes back to what I said before- what's going to be in it? Who's going to maintain it?
At the moment it would be best to just outline the concept in this article, or perhaps create another article like (The Black Parade concept or something...)
I think that replied to everything... CattleGirl talk 07:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
That's actually a good idea, "The Black Parade Concept". If only we could find some sites with official information :( Blkeddie! 15:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

There is an article for every song on American Idiot so why not the Black Parade?Mm jimmy 13:58, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reviews

i think that it's only fair that we put back links for the Aversion review back on the professonal reviews part, or else, you're simply another one of those idiotic crazy mcr fan who doesn't like to see his/her band criticized. wikipedia is a neutral site. Itachi1452 18:55, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe the arguement before when it was removed was that it was not a professional review. It is however still mentioned in the Reception section, just not listed in the infobox.  Orfen User Talk | Contribs 19:32, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I say that if a magazine like Rolling Stone or EW or a big source were to negatively review the album, then yeah it should definitely be listed. But Aversion? I've never even heard of that. And considering the original review consisted of only one word, I refuse to accept it as a "professional source". MJB12 16:30, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Patient's Death?

The article talks about the Patient's "Passage Out Of Life". Is this right? What do people think? Does the Patient die at the end or does he survive? Who is the singer of the last song? Is it his lover, or a relation, a friend or he himself who is singing about being "not afraid to keep on living"? Or is it a dialogue? Any thoughts? ThePeg 00:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


I remember a couple of interviews with Gerard where he said more or less said that the Patient died. I personally think that the Patient is the one narrating Famous Last Words, but I could be wrong. Gerard hasn't really thrown out any details except that the Black Parade is how death comes for the Patient, and that the album is a reflection on his life. mcr616 Speak! 00:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, so why do you insist on placing obviously POV information in the article? Such as he died of cancer, some people even believe that The Patient dies or is injured in the Great War, and it's not even certain if he dies. It's completley a personal thing and has no place on wikipedia, and if your that positive of all the facts you insist on placing in the article then find a source.And you are not the only one that can contribute to this article, I have just as much right to contribute to the article as you do even though I am not a wiki member, you will not force your opinion on other people!

This is not the problem I have with you. If you'd take the time to read my comments, you'd realize that there are many interviews with Gerard and the rest of the band that say basically what the album is about. That's what I'm putting in the article. I have found multiple sources and I do plan on putting them in the article. What makes me angry about you is you use a proxy to change your IP address to avoid warnings. If you really wanted to help contribute to Wikipedia, you wouldn't use a proxy. mcr616 Speak! 14:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

You know what, it's people like you and the mod that you enlisted to get the page protected for 2 weeks, that are ruining Wikipedia. Wiki is an encyclopedia supposedly based upon the consensus approach to adding/deleting information, but this isn't actually the case, as YOU are the only one that took offence to my edits, and YOU are the only one labelling my edits as vandalism and YOU are the only one that requested to get the page protected, and because of one person (that's YOU), I am now labelled as a vandal. Too much power in too few idiotic hands. And good luck trying to find some sources, if they are found I'll back down, otherwise I'll see you again in two weeks.

One source right off the bat. "My Chemical Romance Welcomes You To The Black Parade". It's an audio recording. mcr616 Speak! 21:29, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Another source. [1] and [2]. It's in those videos. You all set now? BTW, please don't call me and the sysop who protected the page idiotic. It's not very nice and could get you blocked (which wouldn't be a problem for you since you use a proxy), and we could work together a lot better if we got along. Hope that this problem can be resolved and we can all work together to improve Wikipedia. mcr616 Speak! 21:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


The good luck trying to find some sources comment, was a genuine one as I want this matter resolved just as much as you do. The only thing that has annoyed me about you, is how you labeled my edits as vandalism when they were nothing of the sort, I always explained my edits thoroughly and I feel your treatment of me was unfair. Also, the way I connect to the internet seems to have angered you, but without it, I would already have been banned on your orders for a series of completley genuine edits. I think you are an honest editor with wiki's best interests at heart, but I think in the future you should refrain from labelling someone a vandal just because they don't agree with your own opinion. Congradulations on finding some sources and with them placed in the article I no longer have a problem. Hopefully, we can get along better in the future.

Thanks ^_^! I apologize for the whole freaking out because you connect via proxy, but a lot of the time, people who use proxys on Wikipedia are sockpuppets trying to evade a block, trolls, or persistent vandals. Sorry I jumped to conclusions. mcr616 Speak! 15:18, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some info on influences from SE book - may be of some use

At the top are links to scans of the booklet, and below are direct quotes.

The End./Dead! - http://www.theimmortalityproject.com/fansite/ltded/LTEDSN051.jpg

This Is How I Disappear/The Sharpest Lives/Welcome to the Black Parade – http://www.theimmortalityproject.com/fansite/ltded/LTEDSN052.jpg

Welcome to the Black Parade/I Don’t Love You - http://www.theimmortalityproject.com/fansite/ltded/LTEDSN053.jpg

House of Wolves/Cancer/Mama/Sleep - http://www.theimmortalityproject.com/fansite/ltded/LTEDSN054.jpg

Teenagers/Disenchanted/Famous Last Words – http://www.theimmortalityproject.com/fansite/ltded/LTEDSN055.jpg

Famous Last Words/Kill All Your Friends - http://www.theimmortalityproject.com/fansite/ltded/LTEDSN056.jpg

The End. - Ray

· Pink Floyd’s The Wall was a great influence on this piece.

Frank

· Hmm, I remember when this song was called “Intro”.

· The End is a piece of music inspired by one of Gerard and my favorite David Bowie songs… “5 Years” (sic)

Dead! - Ray

· The main influence on this one is an Electric Light Orchestra song that has a fun vibe but also this great straight pulse throughout the entire track.

· The solo was fun to write. I wanted to try a mix of Chuck Berry and Brian May, so there are definitely licks straight from “Johnny B. Goode” and the doubling and harmonizing of “May” (sic). Okay, and somehow Woody Woodpecker crept in as well…

Frank

· It had a Beatlesque bounce in it, upstrokes on the second verse…

This Is How I Disappear - Ray

· I had been listening to a lot of Smashing Pumpkins, especially “Zero”, continually amazed a how a few mutes and an octave can be so heavy.

I Don’t Love You - Ray

· We tried to capture the feel of CCR’s “Who’ll Stop The Rain” and “Have You Seen The Rain?” so we added a B3 and a Wurlitzer to fill out the sound.

Frank

· It reminds me of a classic oldie, something Otis Redding might like to have a crack at.

Mama - Ray

· The verses are your standard Russian polka progressions, but G’s vocal melody makes it feel new.

· In Verse 2, Gerard has some fun by singing in different voices (another tribute to The Wall) that gives new life to a section you’ve heard before.

· We end the song with a little tribute to Metallica’s “One” with machine gun picking and snare and tom rolls,,,

Famous Last Words - Ray

· I had been listening to a lot of Blizzard of Ozz at the time we were writing this song. Randy Rhoads is one of my favorite players, and I wanted a solo similar to his style on the record.

Kill All Your Friends - Ray

· Influenced by The Pixies and Weezer, this song has a different feeling from the rest of the record.

Hope it can be worked in somehow. :^) --Jamdav86 13:19, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Blood based on Barney?

One of my classmates said that Blood was a rehash of a Barney song. Is this true?

Blood sounds, in my opinion, very much like Queen's Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon, especially it being very short and having the artist's voices changed. --Luisdile02
Actually, it's simply a part parody and part homage to cabaret songs, which many Barney songs are inspired (poorly) by, while Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon was doing the same as Blood, and achieved a very similar outcome, though with very different subject matters (I suppose you wouldn't have "Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon" on The Black Parade and mroe than you'd have "Blood" on A Day At the Races). --lincalinca 07:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Don't forget it was a hidden track. Vael Victus (talk) 17:58, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong Album Sales

I don't know if it was an accident but under Chart Performance it says the album has only sold 2 copies in the first week, that doesn't seem right, eh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by LinkinParkOz (talk • contribs) 10:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Website

Uhm...F L A T L I N E in the title bar, and all it is is a flatline... Whats up?Quatreryukami (talk) 20:40, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing its a message to tell everyone that The Black Parade is now dead Blkeddie! (talk) 15:47, 27 December 2007 (UTC)