Talk:The Amazing Race 12

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Archives
April 2007 to December 2007: Early leg and pre-production discssuion, table format, rule changes, place markers, caption box layout, "Notable Race Events" cleanup

[edit] Colors in the TAR tables

I checked on an issue with using the symbols in the race location sections with the WP:ACCESSIBILITY page (see this convo), and while it appears that's ok, they did point out that as we have the tables, that's not accessible - specifically we cannot use only color to designate differences. This doesn't (much) affect TAR12, but it does affect most of the other races. Right now I have no ideas, but I'd thought I bring this up to prompt brainstorming to correct it. --MASEM 04:28, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I changed the symbols for the U-Turn from <, >, and <> to <=, =>, and <=>. My reasoning was that it looks more like an arrow (like the U-Turn sign itself). An equal was used because it appeared more visable (to me) than a dash did. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 05:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, so twice already my changes have been reverted by annons, so apparently they aren't reading the talk pages or the history, or the extra character is really bugging them, so someone else had better come up with a different idea. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 08:06, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Wait, I don't understand why you have to change the signs for the U-Turn. I don't think adding an extra symbol to it is going to help . And additionally, since the Yield might have been scraped for this season of the race, I think we can leave it as it is, or at least for now. DanielTAR (talk) 01:41, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

From WP:COLORS: "Ensure that colour is not the only way used to convey important information. Especially, do not use coloured text unless its status is also indicated using another method such as italic emphasis or footnote labels. Otherwise blind users or readers accessing Wikipedia through a printout or device without a colour screen will not receive that information." The Yield symbols currently look like this: <, >, <>, and the U-Turn symbols currently look like this: <, >, and <>. Other than color, there is no difference, so assuming they get used together, it breaks the above guideline and should be change in some way. (Actually, half of the tables' important information from this and previous seasons rely on colors and should changed as well, but we are dealing with this single issue right now). Even if the Yield is never used in this or any other season from now on, though, it is also common practice to use the same symbols for a key every time that you print that key (think about road maps). That way people do not have to refer to the key each time they turn the page when the subject is similar. <, >, and <> have been used for the Yield since Season 5, so suddenly at Season 11, the same symbols should not be used for the U-Turn. A new symbol set should be used for U-Turn even if we never see Yield again. This is why I attempted to change the symbols by adding equals signs: it fulfills both color and the universal key issues. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 02:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether you guys will like it or not, but how about these symbols for the u-turn: ɛ, ɜ and ɞ. And for the speed bump (if have), ‡. Aranho (talk) 05:03, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

To Cobra: Hmm. I get your point but I do feel that => is too "cluttering looking", especially due to the equal sign. Hence, I replaced it with >> << <<>>, and hopefully it pleases everyone. DanielTAR (talk) 22:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I even think that >> and << clutters the table too much, as that episode column is now very stretched. I like Aranho's symbols for the u-turn, and we can only deal with the speed bump when it appears, presumably soon. If aranho's symbols are deemed inappropriate, then the regular < > and <> in brown will have to do. But i just think the current symbols by DanielTAR clutter the table to an unnecessary extent Survivorfan101 (talk) 14:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what symbol you're using for the U-Turn, but all I see when I open it up is a brown square, which looks ugly.«» How about these? French quotation marks?70.68.233.150 (talk) 06:01, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Given the options, I like that symbol set more than the characters proposed by Aranho. For one thing, one of Aranho's symbols looks like a small "3" and could be mistaken for the number (but probably not), but more importantly, the set proposed here is a much more common set that more people can see. If many can't see the symbol (like you), it is worthless. I'm going to try this set out on the list. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 18:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with CobraWiki, these new symbols are better than Aranho's symbols and i think we have finally found our u-turn symbol. Sorry Aranho, the french quotation marks look better and some browsers may not be able to see your symbols, but we all appreciate the extent you have gone to in this situation Survivorfan101 (talk) 03:53, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Never mind. It's okay. I kinda like the new symbol myself too. Anyway, glad that we have a permanent symbol for the U-Turn. Now, what symbol are we going to use IF the speed bump was played... Aranho (talk) 04:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Since the only team to do the speed bump is the one that arrived last during the previous non-elimination leg, and because it must be completed, no symbol is needed. It can be figured out without the need for the symbol using a note during the next leg. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 02:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

These two symbols are added to the table: → and ¶. However, too me, it's looks cluttering and doesn't look pleasent at all. I know it is too help people who can't see clearly, so how about this: use (brackets) on the team's placement if that team used the FF, e.g. (1st); underline for team needed to do speed bump for next leg of the race, e.g. 5th. How about that? Aranho (talk) 15:15, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Went to try it myself but accidentally clicked on "save page" button so my changes was shown. It looks good, doesn't it? But still I wasn't trying to deleted of Masem's work. Aranho (talk) 15:28, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Will it be better to shade the boxes (such as eliminated team shaded red, fast forward user shaded green) like the tables in America's Next Top Model? It should look better that way. Mingshu (talk) 01:21, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

and for the placements, why not put 1, 2, 3 instead of 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Just a suggestion. Mingshu (talk) 01:23, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Next episode in 2 weeks?

I heard from the preview for next episode says that it will be shown in two weeks instead of next week. Can anyone fill me in what will happen next week causing TAR to be pre-empted? I'm not from the US, you know. - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 14:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Survivor: China finale. 3 hr block usually. --MASEM 14:37, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Now I know. But why isn't it indicated in the article? - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 15:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Details of when a show airs outside of airdates is generally non-notable. WP is not supposed to be a TV guide. --MASEM 15:21, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ages in results table

The results table for this season (and the previous seasons I've checked) lists the teams participated "with their relationships at the time of filming." It would be useful to include their ages at the time of filming as well. Is there a reason for not doing this? Is there any objection if I add the ages?
I propose to present it something like this:

Team	Relationship
Ronald(58) & Christina(26)	Father/Daughter
Kynt(31) & Vyxsin(29)	Dating Goths

...etcetera. Notbyworks (talk) 00:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Ages in the result tables are a bit unnecessary and will only serve to clutter the table. I also believe age is irrelevant to the race results, whereas the relationships of teams are critical as they appear frequently in the episodes accompanying the team names, and the ages play no role in the episodes. Too add the ages would be a tad too trivial, but i may be wrong and i am not adverse to reasons why ages should be added Survivorfan101 (talk) 14:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree, ages are unneeded and serve no real purpose. In addition to being trivial, it's also borderline WP:BLP, since their ages aren't significant to their notability it's therefore unnecessary personal information to include in the entry. --Maelwys (talk) 15:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Teams are simply referred to by their first names; their last names, ages, and hometowns take secondary importance in their identification. Some of those details are never even mentioned on the actual show, and are only revealed in post-game interviews or press releases. --Madchester (talk) 16:05, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Added hidden notice...

...so that no one (hopefully) will change the U-Turn symbol. I hope this is helpful in stopping and preventing users to change the symbol. Aranho (talk) 02:17, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, making a big version of the word "Notice" will make people willing to read it, hopefully. Aranho (talk) 02:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New templates

You can see a new templates already in place, this templates is assembly all the templates into this one. Please use this templates in the future. Any problem, please leave comments here. Thank you. --Aleen f1 16:22, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Nicely done. I see no problems. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 18:02, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] One Fast Forward or Two?

Currently, the results table shows a Fast Foward at Leg 5 claiming it was not used, and also the Race locations stating that it was unaired on the show. Is there verification of this on the CBS website? I bring this up because a Fast Forward appeared during Leg 7 and Phil Keoghan states "This is the only Fast Forward found on the entire race." (ok, I'm paraphrasing). Yes, this could have been said because the other was not aired (to eliminate confusion), but it still contradicts what was said on the show. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 01:57, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

There was also a Fast Forward back in Season 8 (Family Edition), and it was only one FF in the race, It was used by Paolo Family in Panama to took the Bungee Jump challenge. - 02:44, December 24, 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but that season also had one unaired Fast Forward, if I'm not mistaken. - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 02:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that season has one unaired/unused fast forward (which was the next leg....in Costa Rica); To get the most of the air-time per episode, if a fast forward goes unused, unless it shows a team going for it then failing (hence the one in India when the teams would have had to shave their heads in season 5), then they will just act like it wasn't there in the first place. Since season 5; there have been only two fast forwards available during the race --Squall41269 (talk) 06:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, if you look on the official site, under glossary, it states that two pre-determined legs have Fast Forwards on them.Shadow2 (talk) 07:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I think we should take away that FF symbol and show the table as is aired on TV. We had the same argument on TAR10 on whether an unaired Yield should be placed on the table. Let's not bring the beast back on this one. --Destron Commander (talk) 13:26, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Why? Just because it isn't shown on television doesn't mean it's not there. It's been said in interviews by teams (Shana & Jennifer) and Phil that there was an unused FF. It's ignorant to deny the fact that it isn't there when it was.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Racedude621 (talk • contribs) 00:20, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Because it'll confuse other people. Leave the table as is. However, you MAY place a tag in the Legs section and provide a reference if a reference is available. Even then, you aren't 100% sure which part of the race it was available. --Destron Commander (talk) 12:53, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't see the harm in adding unused FF information in the table, as long as it's verifiable and sourced. Like you said, it causes confusion to add a FF symbol in the legs section, since we don't know which part of the leg it was available. We already indicate unused FF legs in the tables for Seasons 1-4, when it was available for most of the legs.--Madchester (talk) 16:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Right, even if unused, if it was shown on TV, we can put. But if not used, not aired, it becomes contestable for verifiability. --Destron Commander (talk) 13:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

When the information of the unused FF is available in a reliable, published source, it's essentially verifiable per WP:V. Television articles aren't limited to information within the television show; we consider information from all verifiable sources. You can reject this detail for other reasons, but not verifiability.

For example, feel free to add a disclaimer stating that the table results reflect information presented on the show. BUT, to exclude that detail on the basis of verifiability (despite reliable sources) is just a misuse of that policy and poor Wiki-behaviour. --Madchester (talk) 18:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I only contest placing unaired tasks in the table. But if there are unaired tasks that are verified by reliable sources, the Legs section is THE BEST PLACE to put it as it is meant to be a better analysis of each episode, such information may be placed there. Which is why I didn't delete the unaired FF in that section. Anyway, you have an excellent suggestion about placing a disclaimer for the table. --Destron Commander (talk) 07:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Too bright

The color use in Speed Bump is too bright, it cause a view problem, can it change to other color that little dark? --Aleen f1 06:21, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I tried teal and indigo, but it seems that text in each of these two colors are indistinguishable from the black text. Anyone who can suggest a better color than the very bright turqouise is welcome. - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 17:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I tried changing it to this shade of orange, but someone promptly reedited back to magenta. It's not too bright, but I don't know if you guys think it's too similar to the red. 142.179.26.117 (talk) 17:20, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

How about these colors: Steel Blue (Blue), Chocolate (Brown) or Deep Pink (Red). These colors suggested looks nice on the table and doesn't looks bright to me. If you also compare my suggested colors to the used colour in the bracket, you'll see that there is a quite big difference, so no confusion. Alternatively, you guys can go on this page, Web colors, to check out all of the other colors that will suit it best. Any thoughs? Aranho (talk) 18:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Deep Pink will not work because "Marked for Elimination" in seasons 10 and 11 is waaaaaay too similar. Speaking of which, maybe we shouldn't really worry this much. There's been 6 different penalties for NELs.

No penalty (seasons 1-4)
Lose all money, but can get some during pit stop (season 5)
Lose all money, 0 dollars to name at next leg (season 6, asia 1)
Lose all money and possesions (seasons 7-9)
Marked for elimination (seasons 10-11, asia 2, brazil 1)
Speed Bump (season 12)

Currently, the first 4 all use the same color, so the problem is bigger than it seems, not to mention the issues with color (but that can be avoided by understanding that it only applies to last place finishes). This requires a larger ammount of thought. The most likely solution would be to color them all the same and include footnotes describing the particular penalty they recieved...Shadow2 (talk) 22:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, leave the non-elim colour the same for each season, but include footnotes specifying the penalty. A non-elim is a non-elim regardless of the penalty. Right now anons are changing the colours on a daily basis, so there's no consistency between articles. --Madchester (talk) 19:00, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

You should just use different colours for each of these penalties, so that it is easy to differentiate between them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.85.193 (talk) 21:56, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NOTABLE RACE EVENTS

There needs to be more contributions to this very good category. It has not been updated in four weeks due to problems. Does anyone have any suggestions?–18:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)18:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)~~

[edit] Leg 8 (Italy → India)

I see the preview of next episode that still 5 teams remain and they will fly to India. In progress of one team is arguing on a detour/roadblock task. -- 12:57 UTC, December 27, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.97.103.199 (talk) 12:58, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Wrong edit summary, actually i forgot to add NO. --Aleen f1 11:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

We can't use non-free images casually. For the main TAR article, multiple (but limited) screenshots are permissible to help identify the main elements in the Race, like the clues or finish mat. However, for season articles, we shouldn't be using more than 2 images: 1 for the titles and 1 for identifying the teams. Per WP:NONFREE, Point 3: As few non-free content uses as possible are included in each article and in Wikipedia as a whole. Multiple items are not used if one will suffice; one is used only if necessary

P.S., I used to place screenshots for every other leg of the Race for earlier season, but they were removed for being violating WP:NONFREE. Also, many articles for episode lists (List of Top Gear Episodes, List of Family Guy episodes, Smallville (Season 5), etc.) used to contain a screenshot per episode, but in extensive discussion on those talk pages and WP:NONFREE, such presentation was ruled to be in violation of the policy. Currently those articles have at most 2 images for the entire article.

--Madchester (talk) 05:21, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Underlines/Asterisks - (WP:Color Issue)

Erm... I think we should add symbols/markings like asterisks and underlines so that it tackles the "only-colour" factor in distinguishing. Imagine if someone is colour blind and can't distinguish between Red, Green and Blue. Then what's the point of having just a blue/green font to show between a Non-Elimination, a Fast-Forward and an Elimination? They will all look the same since it's just the digits/numbers alone. DanielTAR (talk) 05:35, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Please stop to revert until problem solve, i see many people want to use their own style, i have to state until problem solve. --Aleen f1 05:45, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we leave it first since there's nothing wrong with it? Effort has been put in to change all 12 seasons and since it's fine, don't undo it. I think maintains simplicity and does not stretch the boxes and is in line with WP:Color for accessiblity. WP:Color states:

Ensure that colour is not the only way used to convey important information. Especially, do not use coloured text unless its status is also indicated using another method such as italic emphasis or footnote labels. Otherwise blind users or readers accessing Wikipedia through a printout or device without a colour screen will not receive that information.

Additionally, it solves the problem of too many/too bright colours for the non-eliminations. So it's "killing two birds in one stone". DanielTAR (talk) 05:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't get that, they are many set of color there, if you said just underline NEL will help, i don't think so. --Aleen f1 05:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

See Rules #2, color are permitted, but make sure it is appropriate. --Aleen f1 05:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Do you even understand what I'm trying to convey?? I'm saying that we can't just leave the non-elimination alone since it IS important information to distinguish between those that eliminate the teams. So for a person who has a colourless screen or a color blind user... they can't tell the difference between Eliminated (RED) and Non-Eliminated (BLUE). So instead of just relying on colour, as per WP:Color, we have to add something else to distinguish it. And STOP undoing my edits when you don't even understand what are the problems here. (with all due respect) DanielTAR (talk) 05:57, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

In regards to your response that there are footnotes... they are useless! So what if we tell the color blind person that "Blue means non-eliminated" when he/she can't even tell which one is blue??? DanielTAR (talk) 06:02, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, stop, everything is involve color here, so underline one will help, think another method first. If you said only one, it will useless. You can see survivor page that left without even footnotes while color everywhere, don't you think that should be issue first? I don't want to involve this anymore, until some one can really solve this color issue. --Aleen f1 06:09, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

If any future changes involve the changing without discussion, especially color, it will be revert, this is a warning message. --Aleen f1 06:14, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Hang on, Aleen. I understand that you're more focused on the issue of which specific colour to put for NEL. But now we've standardized it to all the same colour: Blue. The footnotes below the table will distinguish what penalty is given for the season/scenario. Now, since that problem is solved, we have to tackle another issue... An even bigger one, the WP:Color issue. You've pointed out some other examples of pages that obviously violate the Wiki-standards but since we're editting TAR, let's just do work on TAR first. Now the issue is once again this:

People who do not have colour screens (as unlikely as that may be) or who are colour blind and cannot color differences will have problems distinguishing exactly what the table is trying to say. For example, even though at the footnote it says, "Green means the team took the Fast Forward..."... how are they going to differientiate that with a normal 1st place if they can't identify the colour green... That's why WP:Color states that another distinguishing factor should be put in place with colours so that everyone can identify them. So far, the Non-Elimination has been settled, the U-Turn is fine... But as a whole, if we're going to tackle this to solve all 12 seasons, we need to come up with ideas to change the following:

1) Fast-Forward

2) Intersection

So far, the options for Fast-Forwards have been: 1st* (asterisk) and (1st) (brackets).

The intersection is going to be tougher even though it only affects 2 seasons because it is totally based on colour. I suggest we used three different signs: - + = for them, in addition to the colours. Anyone have any opinions? Do share. DanielTAR (talk) 06:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, did you see "INSERT" below the editing box, most of them are useful, we just need to take one or two only. I dunno about Intersection, maybe have to use number +1 +2 +3 or something. --Aleen f1 07:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty to change the symbols of Intersection myself in TAR10's result table and they are: ~, ^ and +. Personally, they don't look too different from the + + +s so I think it's quite okay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielTAR (talk) 07:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, it can be, but if other user issuing this, i don't take any responsibility, also, i don't wanna a change such as color occur again (mostly come from anon), so hidden message should be ON. --Aleen f1 07:10, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, understood. Will place the hidden messages. Hopefully they will listen. DanielTAR (talk) 07:12, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Alright. I have added a green ƒ sign each time a team uses and wins the Fast-Forward to all 12 seasons. So hopefully everyone is okay with that? So basically we have tackled this issue and I think everyone can fully read/understand the results table regardless of colour abilities. DanielTAR (talk) 07:44, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I would just like to say something about the intersection: for the footnote of the intersection, currently it says Matching colors and symbols indicate teams who worked together during part....Since there is quite alot of symbols in the table, i think this sentence would be better Matching colors and symbols (+, ^ and ~) indicate teams who worked together during part.... Like this, people will know which symbol to look for. Aranho (talk) 13:45, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree... You should go ahead to edit it if you want. I think it's lucky that so far all Intersections happen when there are only 6 teams so the symbol usage won't be too excessive. DanielTAR (talk) 14:25, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speed Bump

Hey people. Anyone can make a Speed Bump icon for Leg 8 and for the next leg that will see it being empoloyed? (probably Leg 10) Thanks. DanielTAR (talk) 03:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll try making the speed bump icon after i watched today's episode. missed it on TV today, trying to download via utorrent. Aranho (talk) 05:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

here's some screengrabs for reference: on screen logo (w/o picture coverup) actual marker box --MASEM 05:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

i'll try to make an icon for it. look's like it's going to be a challenge. Aranho (talk) 10:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Here's the icon:

. Hope you guys like it. Took me 3 hours to make it. Aranho (talk) 12:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Excellent - much appreciated! --MASEM 13:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Masem. That icon looks GREAT! You are awesome when it comes to making icons! I think it looks just like the one on the show! Excellent job! UWAFanatic05 17:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for all of your comments. I ready for more icon designing if any of them appears in TAR. Finally can watch leg 8 of TAR 12. Just completed downloading via utorrent. Have a happy new year! To bad school reopens for me tomorrow. Aranho (talk) 19:18, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, maybe you should make a rectangular icon of the speed bump that looks like the normal clue cards like the Detour, as one has been made for the Intersection (See TAR10). Just helps to be consistent, I guess...Shadow2 (talk) 07:55, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I actually have already made it. It doesn't looks nice to me. And i was the one who made the clue-like Intersection on TAR 10. Aranho (talk) 08:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

What about an icon for additional tasks? --Destron Commander (talk) 06:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Leg 9 (India → Japan)

This next leg (Leg 9) will fly from Mumbai, India to Osaka, Japan with a journey of 4,100 miles (6,560 kilometers) of travel. They are only four teams remain. - January 2, 2008 23:49 (UTC)

Unless it's common knowledge (like the teams climbing the Eiffel Tower in the previews) we need a citation to verify the location per WP:RS. --Madchester (talk) 01:16, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea where this user got the info, but I just saw a commercial for this week's episode right before Letterman. It said something along the lines of "Watch the teams take on new technology in Japan." and showed Don/Nick working what appeared to be robots. So the Japan part is correct, but I dont know how to cite that commercial, oh well. Maybe something will pop up on CBS.com. Amazingracer (talk) 04:38, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The official website states "Taxi drivers have caused grief for Teams at the most inopportune times. Now, it's the revenge of the Racers as they don gloves and hats and drive Japanese passengers around the confusing streets of Osaka!". Cabus (talk) 18:40, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Things gleaned from cbs.com: 1. teams are going to Osaka, Japan. 2. The taxi-driving task is a Roadblock (the video shows Jen driving a taxi WITHOUT NATE PRESENT. There is no other logical explenation). 3. Nick and Don are seen playing a game with robots (robot soccer?) that would have to be a Detour choice. Shapiros10 (talk) 01:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

This episode was delayed for 15 minutes because of recent NFL events. -- 15:01, 9 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.97.143.116 (talk)

[edit] Small suggestion

I know there's been a lot of debate over the symbols/colors of the results tables recently, so I wanted to propose this before implementing it. For Fast Forwards, instead of the ƒ symbol, I suggest we use a regular F, but superscripted, so it would look like this: 1st^F. Also, for legs with unused Yields, I'd suggest using a superscripted orange Y instead of the double arrows, which would look like this: 1^Y. Just small changes, but I think they'd make the tables look nicer stylistically. What do you think? --Crazy Legs KC 21:28, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I have created a sandbox version of TAR10's table here (which is more complex than any other season due to the intersection/FF mix). Table columns could be wider, but it looks a lot cleaner than random symbols over the place. --MASEM 21:59, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I built on that, making a few other changes, which can be seen here. I reduced the leg column width, used only one letter for each indicator, and turned all of them into clickable footnotes. Also, I removed all of the st/nd/rd/th suffixes from the placement numbers, because they aren't really necessary and the table looks less cluttered without them. What do you think? --Crazy Legs KC 03:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I think CrazyLegs, your version is good, except for the removal of the "th"s. I think It looks better with them. The superscript letters are a good idea, and I think that would work well. Just don't use MFE like Masem did, because it's too cluttered.70.68.233.150 (talk) 05:07, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Finale scheduled on January 20

The season finale of Season 12 will be on January 20, the final 3 teams battle for win the US$1,000,000. According from TV.com website -- 15:47, January 7, 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Route markers

In order to reduce the number of non-free images on the main article, I decided to make a new Route Marker image from scratch. It looks like this--not much different except that it's larger and doesn't have the bar along the top. Do you think I could upload it to Commons and tag it as PD-ineligible? (Because I don't think simple yellow and red stripes can be copyrighted.)

Also, what do you think of using a square version of the route marker as an icon for "additional tasks" on the race pages--which would look somewhat like this? --Crazy Legs KC 03:02, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

The icon is helpless if place like this, instead it waste article size only. --Aleen f1 12:15, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwan

Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese) #Political NPOV, whether use Republic of China (Taiwan) or Taiwan (Republic of China), and another point, see WP:NOT #Wikipedia is not censored. And please do not change as you like. Thank you. --Aleen f1 04:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

At content box on top of the page,can we put Republic of China(Taiwan) instead of just Republic of China?This would clear any confusion.Ceecookie (talk) 14:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I think in this case we can get away with only listing Taiwan. Two reasons I believe that.

1/ That's all they ever referred to it as in the show, in the clues, on the check-in sign, everywhere.

2/ According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese)#Republic of China, Taiwan, and variations thereof we're allowed to use Taiwan when referring to the geographic location (the island) rather than the political body. And since they spent the entire leg on the island, that should be fair game.

So I think it would be less confusing (more in line with what was shown on TV) and still within the rules (according to that table) to simple refer to it as Taiwan everywhere on the page. --Maelwys (talk) 14:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Since I received no response to refute my logic here, I've been bold and implemented the changes accordingly. --Maelwys (talk) 16:02, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Taiwan is more clear/accurate. Badagnani (talk) 04:54, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree about using Taiwan. It was what was presented on the show itself. The show never referred to it as Republic of China. UWAFanatic05 23:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I remember the show not refer Hong Kong as PRC also, so what UWAFanatic05 can be explain for this. I strong oppose for this. --Aleen f1 05:33, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Since the show only refered to it as Taiwan, that's what it should be called on the article. Plus, no one in Taiwan refers to it as ROC anyway. Thankyoubaby (talk) 20:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] VAN MUNSTER(TAR PRODUCER) SPOILED THE SHOW

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/the-amazing-race-producer-twelfth-edition-will-be-nail-biter-6023.php

(READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE BEFORE REPLYING)

READ THE ONE WHERE ITS SAYS:

"The Race should be able to be won by someone who is 58-years-old or 69-years-old," said van Munster.

(Which refers to Don) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.82.82 (talk • contribs)

It also could refer to Ron. It also could be taken that they planned it for the older teams to win, but TK/Rachel ended up winning. Way too speculative to add given that we have an answer in two days. --MASEM 04:27, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a heads up. Don is 69 years old a few weeks after the race while Ron was 58 years old during racing. Hence, could this be our Top 2 teams? I also wouldn't be surprised if he was just drawing a comparison at how both teams made it to the Final 3. All I'm hoping for is that TK/Rachel don't win and best case scenario for Ron/Chris to win. But anyway, as what Masem said... waayy to speculative. Though it's interesting to know that Van Munster "sub-consciously" revealed 2 of the 3 final 3 teams before the race premiered. DanielTAR (talk) 17:56, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Van Munster is known for dropping hints about the winner, especially if it's a fan favorite. He did the same thing back at the Primetime Emmys in August '04, when he said that the public would love Season 5's winner. Sure enough Chip/Kim won a few weeks later during the September finale. Regardless, the talk page shouldn't be a discussion forum.--Madchester (talk) 18:09, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mirna's Predictions

READ THE ARTICLE FROM TV GUIDE:

http://www.tvguide.com/News/amazing-race-preview/080118-05 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.82.82 (talk) 04:56, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

so...?? your point is..?? DanielTAR (talk) 18:00, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Missing Train stations

Where are the train stations taken in Taipei? Train stations are added like airports, seaports, etc. Aeron Valderrama (talk) 02:12, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

At the Taipei Main Station there are numerous transportation options. They are the Taiwan High Speed Rail, Taiwan Railways (conventional rail), Taipei Subway and under construction and scheduled to open in 2012 is the Taoyuan International Airport Access MRT System. Jungworld.com (talk) 18:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, Nate and Jen probably boarded the Taipei Subway at Gongguan station (Xindian Green Line) and gotten off at Ximen Station to board a bus to Youth Park (walking on stones) in Wanhua District. See the Taipei Rapid Transit System map for reference. Jungworld.com (talk) Jungworld.com (talk) 23:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Consensus for new "trivia/notable race events" approach

Ok, I'm sorry I can't remember who initiated this, but the new approach done on this page and TAR11's page for handling the trivia and other aspects of the race...

Is there agreement this is a better format for this information? There's an anon IP on TAR10 that is changing it back to the old trivia format and I want to make sure that we actually agree this is a good approach. --MASEM 05:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is the best practices. I agree for it. --Aleen f1 05:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-elim confusing - looks like link

Underlined blue should not be used for anything, specifically non-elim legs, as it looks like a hyperlink. Why not use underlined black? --epsalon (talk) 08:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. 75.89.235.70 (talk) 00:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Not allowed black, all registered users will revert to blue on its colored non-eliminated team. - 15:49, January 22, 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.97.141.34 (talk)

[edit] Mirna's Prediction (CORRECT!)

HER PREDICTION IS RIGHT,

http://www.tvguide.com/News/amazing-race-preview/080118-05 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.82.82 (talk) 15:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)