Talk:Thanksgiving/Archive 2

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
  1. November 2001 – October 2006
  2. November 2006 – September 2007

Contents

Photos

The picture about "traditional thanksgiving dinner" should be removed; Pilgrams didn't have bananas, nor did they have grapes. Furthermore, the turkey is already carved. A pre-carved turkey is to Thanksgiving what a person in a wheelchair is to the Olympic 100m. Jackmont, 22Nov 2006 marion jtm

The wrong date is given

Franklin D. Rooseesvelt moved Thanksgiving to the THIRD Thursday of November to lengthen the Christmas season. It has not been on the 4th Tursday of the month for decades.

Uh, who said Thanksgiving is on the third Thursday of November?! You must be reading a lot of lies and not any books lately! Get a clue! --Angeldeb82 23:55, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

US versus Canadian holidays

Do these two holidays have so much in common that they should be in the same article? I really think they need to be broken out to separate ones. The origins are completely different. Mapetite526 17:56, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

And it should be mentionned somewhere that in french Canada, or at least in Quebec, Thanksgiving (in french: Action de grâce) is mostly "just another holiday", Christmas and New Year's day being the times when families are reuniting. It is much less celebrated than in english Canada or the United States. (See also [1] in the "Thanksgiving in Canada" section, but as a Quebecer, I can tell you that none of my friends, collegues or family members "celebrates" thanksgiving) Sébastien Savard 21:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree. The entire article seems to consist of sections subdivided into "American" and "Canadian". Why not just have 2 articles: Thankgiving (United States) and Thanksgiving (Canada)? This page could just be a disambiguation page. --PurpleRain 21:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I appreciated that they were the same article because I wanted to learn the origins and traditions of the Canadian Thanksgiving to compare, and having them together made this very easy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.123.62.186 (talk) 14:49, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed "Witches Holiday" language

I've removed the following text, as it lacks sources:

During the 16th and 17th centuries, Thanksgiving was considered 'The Witches' Holiday', celebrating thanks in rememberance of evils past and evils to come. They celebrated by sacrificing animals and conjuring spirits. This is one of the main reasons why Thanksgiving is celebrated after Halloween.

It can go back if there are trustworthy citations that can be provided, but "Thanksgiving is actually evil" can't stand without evidence backing that assertion up. JDoorjam Talk 19:30, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of "Thanksgiving is evil", Jack Chick claims the so-called "evils" of Thanksgiving, as described in his Chick tract The Missing Day. Here's the link: [2] And here's another: [3] --Angeldeb82 01:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Jack Chick is a loony, and I'm being insulting to loonies when I say that.Dogface 21:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah. He just thinks Thanksgiving is a religious holiday that is "attacked by pagans and heathens" that make us not thankful for God but for "Mom, beer, and apple pie", which is a sin, and that when a nation forgets God and stops giving thanks, then it will be "brought to judgment", as it is written in the Bible, "The wicked will depart for the netherworld, with all the nations that forget God." (Psalm 9:18, NAB) What an idiot who doesn't know that Thanksgiving is not just a religious but a national holiday, wouldn't you say? --Angeldeb82 03:26, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: Citation for Night Before Item

I added the item about the night before being a popular night to go out drinking because it is a common knowledge here in the Northeast, something that if mentioned in a news article, would only be seen in passing and not the main thrust of it.

I have removed it. It is unsourced and has been removed once already for the same reason. Please sign your statements on talk pages. Mapetite526 16:35, 12

October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I dont think of you as an informed arbiter of what should be on this article. I think I will put my item back up. -Attackoftheclones

But this time you included a source, which because I was trying to be helpful, I moved to the appropriate edit so it won't get deleted again. Hmm and I did it before I read your comment. Mapetite526 21:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, sorry to be hostile, I dont have the best relationship with wiki administrators. -Attackoftheclones


Are you guys out of your minds?

Isn't the larger question: Why in the world should a discussion about the way a distinct minority of people behave on the night before Thanksgiving be the very FIRST sentence describing traditional observance of Thanksgiving??! That's like making the first sentence describing the U.S. congress be a statement about Ted Kennedy driving off a bridge, drunk, with a woman not his wife.

Above, Ferdinangus, from Britain, says that he "came to this article to discover what this day is all about", and we begin by telling him that the day is traditionally celebrated by getting drunk on the night before, if you're a dysfunctional college brat from the northeast. Shouldn't the discussion begin by saying that Thanksgiving is traditionally celebrated by getting together with family, enjoying a fine meal together, and taking time to be grateful for what we have? --TomTurkey 02:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

Some of the triviais really pushing the limits of relevance, especially: * the last show of "The Band"

  • it might be a favorite theme for T.V. shows, but highlighting series (as opposed to perhaps historically significant episodes)?

--Belg4mit 02:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The Real story on the First Thanksgiving?

I wont say that I'm an expert on Thanksgiving, but I came across this article a few years ago and I think that some mention of how the capitalist philosophy (as opposed to the rather socialist one that they arrived in America with) played a big part in the overall success of the colony. This arcticle will support what I'm saying: http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email&refer=columnist_baum&sid=a4BfNadB0NAM

--Rush Limbaugh cites this story (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/stacks/trsofg.guest.html) as the Real Meaning of Thanksgiving, and he supposedly recites this story every Thanksgiving on his radio program (or so he claimed while I was listening to his show yesterday, 20Nov06). At the end of the web article above, Rush claims "Thanksgiving, in other words, is not thanks to the Indians, and it's not thanks to William Bradford. It's not thanks to the merchants of London. Thanksgiving is thanks to God, pure and simple." But the idea that he pointed to as allowing the colonists to survive was "the power of the marketplace". It seems to me that Rush Limbaugh is trying to suggest that Capitalism is a gift from God, and that is what we should be thankful for. Any comments?

This external link was mistakenly taken off of the newest revision because someone messed up the link when adding something else. Its a legitimate article about the First Thanksgiving in Virginia, before the Pilgrims arrived in the New World. http://www.virginia.org/site/features.asp?FeatureID=50 I think it should be replaced.

Well, Rusty's a little mixed up on this point and always has been. I've been meaning to try and call for many years now to straighten him out, but the thought of taking the time to even try always dissuades me. Yes, they did abandon their original compact of doing everything communally and yes, that did greatly increase the motivation and productive output of the colony as a whole. However, it was the year after the first Thanksgiving celebration that they abandoned it. The local indians played a crucial role in the survival of the pilgrims, and there never has been any reason for the pilgrims themselves or us today not to see that as the hand of Divine Providence. Darentig 14:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Honestly, Rush Limbaugh, is WAY off the mark (as you can expect him to be because he is a highly biased pundit with no interest in historical integrity.) The thanksgiving holiday has nothing to do with thanking William Bradford or the Indians. They were deeply religous and were thanking god for helping them survive the brutal hardships and reality of frontier life. The settlers worked together in a so called "socialist" capacity because none of them knew what the heck they were doing at first. They banded together because they were scared of dying.
That being said, the native american people were going through an even rougher patch just before the mayflower landed due to illnesses brought over by europeans. The Mayflower settlers attempted to barter, learn from and trade with the natives becuase they were desperately fighting for survival and much like men at war they quickly forget racial barriers when questions of survival came into immediate jeopardy. However, the idea that the native americans were accepted as equals in their society is as ridiculous as Limbaugh being a remotely accurate historian, they just didn't care who helped them survive as long as they did.

Paragraph ordering

Why does the Traditional celebration section start with the Macy's parade? And then followed up with the post-holiday shopping? Which is followed by the not-unimportant but nevertheless incidental football? Only after all that is the traditional feasting mentioned (but not the family gatherings). -Freekee 02:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC) the native indians also included not only pilgrims

Several or two?

Perhaps the wording under PILGRIMS can be clarified... "Several American colonists have personal accounts of the 1621 feast in Massachusetts..." and then following the two accounts from Bradford and Winslow the next paragraph states, "The two preceding passages are the only records of the event..."

Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.183.6.194 (talk • contribs) 19:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

A World festival?

In the introduction it states:

[...] though it is not thought of as a major event (compared to Christmas or Easter) as it is in other parts of the world

However it only goes on to describe the North American celebrations, therefore unless it is a 'major event' elsewhere in the world it should read:

[...] though it is not thought of as a major event (compared to Christmas or Easter) as it is in North America

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.103.37.70 (talk • contribs) 09:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to Native Americans?

I was under the impression that this was a festival in the Christian tradition? Am I wrong? (Confused Brit) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.58.233.129 (talk • contribs) 10:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you can be simultaneously thankful to God and thankful to those helping you here on Earth, can't you? —Angr 10:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


I actually was suprized that the description of the holiday mentioned god ("is an annual one-day holiday to give thanks (traditionally to God)). I'm an American born and bred and have been a New Yorker all of my 40 years and I have never in my life ever associated the American holiday of Thanksgiving to god in anyway - nor have I ever heard anyone make that association either. It is possible that the original origins had something to do with the ending of the harvest season, but what does that have to do with modern times and what Thanksgiving really is in 2006? The reality is, Thanksgiving is a holiday where people get together with their families and it is perhaps the only time of year for many people that they actually get together with many of their relatives. So, the way I see it, the whole description of the holiday should remove the god reference - or, even better, create seperate listings for each country's observance and meanings, and not try to make generalizations nor add religion to something that isn't religious - at least in modern times.

Of course not everyone's celebration of Thanksgiving is religious, but neither is everyone's celebration of Christmas. But Thanksgiving is in origin a religious holiday, and it remains a religious holiday for a great number of people -- just not a specifically Christian holiday, which is what distinguishes it from other secularized religious holidays like Christmas and Easter. I'm always astonished when I encounter atheists who celebrate Thanksgiving, because I can't help but wonder who precisely they're being thankful to. —Angr 19:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

You don't have to be thankful "to" anyone. You can be thankful that you have your family. That's what it's about. While I'm not an athiest, I too have never heard of thanksgiving being a religious holiday. That's just made up crap, typical of agenda-pushing wikipedia editors. 75.25.101.110 01:03, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Refer to Abraham Lincoln's proclamation of the National Holiday that we celebrate today. It is "a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens" Lincoln further described the "beneficent Father" as the "Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy." I don't see much ambiguity in Lincoln's intention. Bravenav 05:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

"To be thankful" is passive instead of active. I'd expound, but you can just read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_tense if you need to. Summary: "Thanking" requires a direct object, "being thankful" does not. For example, you cannot say "I thank" with no object, just as you cannot say "John threw." However, you can say "I am thankful" as a complete sentence, just like: "The ball was thrown." Therefore you can be athiest, be completely thankful, and still be quite sure that people who go to church on Sundays are suffering from a particular kind of mass delusion (pun completely intended) coupled with a healthy dose of wishful thinking. I don't know how to sign this, so I'll just say this was written by Kelly F. in Japan.

PS - The story of the first Thanksgiving involved religion (notably, fleeing from it). I fail to make the leap that makes it "a religious holiday." There was some statement that it would be a day of "thanksgiving and prayer to God," which I found in a children's reading comprehension worksheet here in Japan. However, when it was petitioned to be made into a national holiday in the 1800s (a petition to the Government of the United States), the basis was definitely not on Bradshaw's use of the phrase "prayer to God," but rather on the story of the unity of people within the United States. It was originally intended to be secular, just like the Fourth of July. God was incidental.


I agree with Kelly F. in Japan - atheists can take a day out of the year to appreciate what they have (be thankful) without having to give credit to a white haired guy sitting on a cloud holding a thunderbolt. We take time to appreciate and visit with our families, eat food, and reflect on how fortunate we are, just like religious people do. - Jason S in New York

"To be thankful" isn't passive. Did you actually read English passive voice ("passive tense" means nothing at all)? Thankful is an adjective, not a verb form. And whether "thankful" grammatically needs its argument to be explicit, pragmatically you can't feel thankful without directing it toward someone. The Puritans were incidentally not "fleeing from religion" but rather fleeing from religious persecution, to a place where they would be free to practice their own (extremely strict and uncompromising) religion without being hassled by people whose views they considered too "worldly". Of course atheists can feel thankful -- toward other people, or toward themselves -- but you hardly need to set aside a special day for that. —Angr 09:06, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Why do you set aside a special day for it? Your argument makes no sense from an atheists perspective. Belief in God is a personal choice, and essentially to atheists when you thank god, you're just thanking an illusory being. Effectively, you're not thanking anyone either. So, you can have your version of Thanksgiving, and atheists will have theres. We'd change the name from Thanksgiving to "Sit down with the family and have a big dinner" Day but frankly that's too much work and it already has a name.

It should be a thank the First Nations day. Yeah the White Man should give thanks to the natives for dying when the Europeans infected them with disease for which they had no immunities, and for the fact that because they did not live in crowded slums as the Europeans were accustomed to, the 'Indians' did not have rampant diseases of their own to give back... thanks for giving us no disease.

And thanks for allowing some of the poor wretches who stumbled off the boat and immediately digging random holes in search of gold, thanks to the local tribespeople for hiring them as servants... thanks for the employment opportunities.

And thanks that there were native graves to rob of pots and bowls, and thanks for the fresher corpses that the barbaric Europeans could feast upon as cannibals so as not to starve, thanks for the dishes and food.

And thanks to Squanto for his time as a slave in England, during which he learned the language to teach agriculture to the ignorant savages from across the sea. the Europeans who murdered his people and created a settlement in what had once been his own village's cropland, carved by the natives of the New World out of hardwood forests. Thanks for clearing the land.

And thanks for teaching us about maize, now one of the world's top agribusiness staples, you can't make corn chips or steer manure without a whole lotta corn, so thanks for corn.

So as a Euro-american, let me take this moment, on behalf of the colonial imperative which led to the near total genocide of the First Americans of turtle island, to give a great big thank you for not infecting us when we infected you, for giving us jobs when we were illegal immigrants, and for welcoming us into your homes, for feeding us, giving us gifts, for tolerating our thefts, our rapes, and robberies, and murders of your people, and thanks for corn and for clearing the land for our settlements, so we could build houses where you used to grow food, and in general thanks for just dying and getting out of the way of the Europeans. And thanks for letting us get away with teaching our children that the invaders were the hosts instead of the guests at the first thanksgiving dinner, calling them 'Pilgrims' instead of pillagers... yes God has indeed blessed our day of giving thanks. User:Pedant 00:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

WWII dates

The Detroit Lions of the American National Football League have hosted a game every Thanksgiving Day since 1934, with the exception of 1939–1944 (due to World War II).

Why would the Lions cancel their games between 1939-1941? The USA weren't at war then. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.195.0.102 (talk • contribs) 12:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Images from 23 November 2006

I removed the images of westerners slaughtering/torturing natives that were added by Lentz18 on 23 November 2006 because they were not properly captioned and showed no direct relationship to Thanksgiving. If anything these should have been incorporated under a heading about criticism but more likely they should have been included on a seperate page of their own. In either case they should have been properly captioned.--Wlf211 13:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I looked at the source they came from; they were all about massacres/tortures in Central or South America anyway, so there was really no relation to an article about North American Thanksgiving. —Angr 13:52, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving!

To all those in the United States,


Happy Turkey Day!


Mangez bien! → JARED (t)  14:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Why no mention of Thanksgiving Day massacres?

I am no professional historian, but over the years I have repeatedly encountered a view of Thanksgiving that goes something like this: the first event was a multicultural celebration of some sort, with settlers thankful for their survival and inviting the indigenous folks for either political, celebratory or mixed reasons, but then, after 1621, the holiday lapsed, and may have next come up in the context of a massacre of 700 Pequot men, women and children. I don't have the original source but an article at Independent Media Center includes the following, which I have seen previously:

"William Newell, a Penobscot Indian and former chair of the anthropology department of the University of Connecticut, claims that the first Thanksgiving was not "a festive gathering of Indians and Pilgrims, but rather a celebration of the massacre of 700 Pequot men, women and children." In 1637, the Pequot tribe of Connecticut gathered for the annual Green Corn Dance ceremony. Mercenaries of the English and Dutch attacked and surrounded the village; burning down everything and shooting whomever try to escape. The next day, Newell notes, the Governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots." Most Americans believe Thanksgiving was this wonderful dinner and harvest celebration. The truth is the "Thanksgiving dinner" was invented both to instill a false pride in Americans and to cover up the massacre."

http://indy.pabn.org/archives/213thank.shtml

Why wouldn't this be mentioned in the main article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Michaeljwsiegel (talk • contribs) 15:04, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

If there are reliable sources for it, it could be alluded to, although the article is more about the modern holiday than about 17th century American history. —Angr 15:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


Here is another page on the subject with some more references:

http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/thanksgiving_nelte.html

I'm hoping someone can check some of this out, and add it back to the article. Since thanksgiving is usually thought of as marking an historical event, it is certiantly relevant to use the article to examine historical context. There are many examples of popular media making reference to thanksgiving controversy; Since people are already aware of them, this article should be a place to point to concrete references. 24.84.4.109 03:29, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Page's been vandalised with random obscenities

Ugh. I am a non-American and came here to know about Thanksgiving Day. Pretty annoyed at the page having been vandalised by the likes of teenaged punks apparently. Requesting a page restore and the relevant IP bans.


I have removed the offending material as I found it offensive as well.

Thanks for noticing! Please see Help:Reverting for how to revert vandalism. —Angr 16:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Same here. I'm British and saw a few minutes ago that it had been defaced with the f-word on the first line. I think it's now been removed.

Meltingpot

Turkey Pardoning

Is there a source for this, or is this a sily edit? - Narfness 18:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not a silly edit, it's a longstanding tradition that the President pardons the Presidential turkey. —Angr 19:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Semi-Protected

I know someone's going to take me to task over this, but take a look at the history. Oh the irony indeed that the last edit before the semi-protection was constructive and from an IP, but the vandalism has gotten a bit excessive. Unprotect it after an hour or so, or unprotect it immediately if you have a serious aversion to my move. -- tariqabjotu 18:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I've made a request for this page to be re-semi-protected, at least until the end of the holiday. As can be evidenced from the history, vandalism before and after the sprotect has been rampant, while during the sprotect, there was nothing. The request can be found here. –Dvandersluis 21:34, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Proposal to split this article according to nationality

Since the article consists mostly of sections divided into Canadian and American subsections, I propose that the article be split. This page would become a disambiguation page linking to Thanksgiving (American), Thanksgiving (Canadian), and Harvest festival. It would make each article flow a lot better and would make it easier for people to find the information they are looking for. I suspect that most people reading this page are looking for information on either American Thanksgiving or Canadian Thanksgiving, and aren't that interested in the other. --PurpleRain 19:04, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Oppose. This would be the same as having articles like Christmas (American), Christmas (European), etc. The purpose of this article is to descrive the Thanksgiving holiday and how it is celebrated. To have two articles would mean having to duplicate the first few paragraphs almost identically for both articles. Just because it's only celebrated in two countries doesn't mean it's any less of an independent holiday with it's own traditions, Canada or America alike.— OLP 1999 20:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
    Comment: This isn't quite the same as splitting the Christmas article. The holidays in the two countries are on different days, and have mostly different traditions. The one paragraph that isn't currently in a country-specific subsection could exist on the disambiguation page. Or, if we find more in common between the two, we could have a generic Thanksgiving page with links to country-specific traditions. I just think the way it is formatted right now is silly. If you want to read about American Thanksgiving you need to skip over all the Canada sections, and vice-versa.
    If the holiday were mostly the same in Canada and the U.S., with a few minor variations, then it would make sense just to have a section of this article explaining the different traditions in the two countries. But the entire article is divided by country, except for the first paragraph.
    --PurpleRain 21:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. Per PurpleRain. –Dvandersluis 21:35, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Why not a general overview of thanksgiving, the things that are common to both Canada and the USA, and then have links at the bottom to the traditions of each distinct region.--Talroth 04:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Non-Standard Analysis

There a fair number of mainstream historians affiliated with major research universities who contend that Thanksgiving actual celebrates and victory over indians in Connecticut by settlers of the region. It has seized upon by Marxists who contort it for their political ends, but nevertheless the history goes something like what is below. I believe it should be worked into the article, because as far as I understand the literature on the topic it is regarded by academics as more influential in forming the thanksgiving tradition than the squanto line of events, which was emphasized later.

"In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival, the native groups annual Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared "A Day Of Thanksgiving" because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered."

If you can cite reliable sources for it, it can be added. —Angr 21:08, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
what does "seized upon by Marxists who contort it for their political ends" mean? —michaeljwsiegel

thanksgiving

thanksgiving is on the 3rd thursday in november and not the 4th

Today is the fourth Thursday of the month: Nov. 2, Nov. 9, Nov. 16, Nov. 23 --PurpleRain 22:33, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

happy thankgiving

Just wanted to say, have a happy thanksgiving! SupaStarGirl 13:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanksgiving Birthday Pattern

Thanksgiving is a rare holiday that doesn't fall on the same date each year. The date is affected by the fact that it is fixed to the fourth Thursday of November. And leap year causes the date to jump a year. The resulting pattern is a 28 year cycle that goes like this; 11 years, 6 years, 5 years, 6 years then repeats.

If your Birthday falls between 11/22 and 11/28 it will eventually fall on Thanksgiving day. The easiest way to tell if your Birthday is going to fall on Thanksgiving is to look at the first day of November. If the first day of the month is a;
Sun = Thanksgiving is on the 26th,
Mon = 25th,
Tues = 24th,
Wed = 23rd,
Thu = 22nd,
Fri = 28th,
Sat = 27th.

Following is a list of Thanksgiving Birthday's for each possible date;
11/22 -- 2007, 2012, 2018, 2029, 2035;
11/23 -- 2006, 2017, 2023, 2028, 2034;
11/24 -- 2011, 2016, 2022, 2033, 2039;
11/25 -- 2010, 2021, 2027, 2032, 2038;
11/26 -- 2009, 2015, 2020, 2026, 2037;
11/27 -- 2008, 2014, 2025, 2031, 2036;
11/28 -- 2013, 2019, 2024, 2030, 2041
gregmjr

An international holiday

After witnessed what happened to the Native Americans, Afghanistans, Iraqis and poor guys of New Orleans, people all over the world decided that they shall celebrate Thanksgiving. We must thank George W. Bush for not invading our countries. Otherwise, we would all become badly-burned turkeys. -- Toytoy 15:19, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Origin

Could anyone explain how the holiday evolved in the English-speaking countries in general and America in particular? Why did "the early settlers" choose to celebrate it annually? It is essential that the holiday is specific to these countries, so there should be some explanation of that. --Ghirla -трёп- 19:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

UK

"In the United Kingdom, Thanksgiving is another name for the Harvest festival,"

Can this assertion be corroborated? I'm a Brit and have never heard Harvest festival called Thanksgiving - but maybe it is in some parts of the country????????
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.104.55.241 (talk • contribs) 09:21, November 27, 2006 (UTC).

Yes I find this slightly strange too. If Thanksgiving is known at all in the UK, it is known as an American festival. This sentence needs to be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.221.241.90 (talk • contribs) 02:49, November 28, 2006 (UTC).

As a Brit, I have never heard of Harvest Festival being called Thanksgiving here. And I would describe it as a US holiday, not American since I would associate it with the United States and not the Americas as a wh —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.12.244.204 (talk • contribs) 07:46, November 30, 2006 (UTC).

Thanksgiving is definitely widely celebrated in Canada. It is a national holiday, a day off work and school, and a chance to get together with family and friends. I can't speak for other parts of the Americas, but it's definitely more than just the U.S. (Also note that, at least in North America, the word "American" generally refers to someone or something from the United States. Otherwise the terms "North American" or "South American" are used. By contrast, "America" can refer to the U.S. (not used that way by many Canadians), or to the wider continent/continents) —PurpleRAIN 15:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Black Friday Definition?

Under the "United States" traditions section, this comment is made: "This day is called "Black Friday" due to all of the money being transacted, causing cashiers' hands to become black." I've heard many differing definitions for the term "Black Friday", and this is one of the least convincing. I don't think this is true, and if it is, please cite the source. Thanks. Aabbbiee 16:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I believe the reason for the name Black Friday ("This day is called "Black Friday" due to all of the money being transacted, causing cashiers' hands to become black.") Should be removed since there are many definitions for the term and the one chosen is not the definition usually used. Instead of citing its source, I believe it should be removed and just a link provided to the Black Friday (shopping) Wikipedia page. 12/1/06

Splitting the article

I have split this article into two separate articles: Thanksgiving (Canada) and Thanksgiving (United States). This makes it easier to read for all involved, since the previous article required skipping over sections related to the other country. This page has now become a disambiguation page. Please review the separate articles and observe how much easier they are to read before commenting on the split. —PurpleRAIN 22:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I am quite certain the vast majority of the links to Thanksgiving are for Thanksgiving (United States). This seems like an issue. -- tariqabjotu 23:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't it make more sense, then, to have them linking directly to Thanksgiving (United States) rather than a generic Thanksgiving page where a user must filter through the material to find the relevant info? I'll begin changing the links to Thanksgiving right away. —PurpleRAIN 14:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I've updated 95 pages so far. There are a lot of them. Most have been changed to Thanksgiving (United States), while a few have been changed to Thanksgiving (Canada). A few have been left pointing to Thanksgiving, since they don't clearly reference a specific country (e.g. they are only referring to turkey dinners and family gatherings). I will keep going on updating the links, but if other want to join in, please do. The pages that link to Thanksgiving can be found at Special:Whatlinkshere/Thanksgiving. I expect some links will be updated by editors of the linking pages as well, as they discover the link going to a disambiguation page. —PurpleRAIN 17:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


Split it again!

The previous page for "Thanksgiving" (without my addition) really wasn't a good Wikipedia entry. The term 'thanksgiving' has been around a lot longer than the North American holiday.

Dictionary.com defines 'thanksgiving' so:

1. the act of giving thanks; grateful acknowledgment of benefits or favors, esp. to God.
2. an expression of thanks, esp. to God.
3. a public celebration in acknowledgment of divine favor or kindness.
4. a day set apart for giving thanks to God.

Notice that the public celebration, and the "day set apart for giving thanks to God", are only two out of four definitions, and come bottom of the list. I'm sure other dictionaries are not so kind to American 'Thanksgiving' as Dictionary.com.

I came across this anomaly when I wanted to link to a page about the act of religious thanksgiving, from an article on prayer. The most common use of the word 'thanksgiving' in the English language comes from Biblical references such as this:

Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. (Phil 4:6 NIV)

I don't think that they had to eat turkey every time they wanted to say thank you to God in Biblical times! (chuckle) It seemed to me, therefore, that when a Wikipedia user clicked a link to the word 'thanksgiving' the first thing he/she should be confronted with should not be a turkey! (lol) I felt that that made a turkey out of the encyclopedia.

Anyway, I took it upon myself to write the article, and great fun I had doing it... plus ANOTHER late night!

JoJoUK2007 02:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I like your addition, but I wonder if the two articles should be separate? We might want an article for the act of Thanksgiving, and another for Thanksgiving Day. My guess is that most often, when someone types "Thanksgiving" in the search box, they will be looking for Thanksgiving Day. You could put a {{for}} tag at the top of Thanksgiving that redirects to Thanksgiving Day. Thoughts? —PurpleRAIN 18:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

French Canadians Don't Enjoy Thanksgiving?

I edited text "Although in English Canada Thanksgiving is often celebrated with family, it is also often a time for weekend getaways for couples to observe the autumn leaves, spend one last weekend at the cottage or participate in various outdoor activities such as hiking, fishing and hunting. The holiday is not as significant a family occasion amongst French Canadians, however."-- This is pure conjecture. As a French Canadian, I enjoy "l'Action de Grâce" just as much as any English Canadian, in every aspect mentioned above. To conclude that we don't appreciate Thanksgiving as the rest of Canada is completely invented and racist in its very nature. Cplbeaudoin 15:42, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Inaccurate

Wow, wikipedia rewriting history?

Somebody nominate this for cleaning up!

Agriculture?

The nav boxes for agriculture and horticulture don't really seem to belong on this article. Sure, Thanksgiving is related to a fall harvest, but it really has nothing to do with how the plants/animals are grown and harvested. It only relates to having the food.

It seems to me that if these boxes are not included in articles like Supermarket and Slaughterhouse, then they definitely shouldn't be in Thanksgiving.

—PurpleRAIN 18:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, perhaps it is too tangential. Cheers!Wassupwestcoast 19:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Examples of what to do on the Holiday?

How important is it to say that families can see the autumn leaves or go to their cottage? It's just important that lonely people have a few days to sit at home on their computers looking at pornography. Do you catch my drift? Examples of how to spend a holiday don't seem like they belong in a factual encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.10.197 (talk) 02:02, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

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