Talk:Thanksgiving (United States)
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[edit] Block quotes
Include only the essential part of the block quotes. There should be paraphrasing before and after them. Reading all of that is exhausting. Anyone who wants to read those entire documents can check out the source.Youdontsmellbad (talk) 02:29, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] vandalism
um, i'm thinking someone vandalized this page (like in the "1621 Thanksgiving, The Pilgrims at Plymouth Plantation" section" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.115.228.7 (talk) 16:28, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Add a Link?
Does anybody feel that we should add a link to [http://earlyhistory.googlepages.com/historyofthanksgiving History of Thanksgiving] - Please give your reasons as to why or why not! Thanks! West wikipedia
- As before - same reason - Because it does not cite it's sources, doesn't add anything already in Wikipedia, the site is non-notable i.e. it hasn't been cited as an authority by other reliable sources and it's authors are completely unknown. In fact if I google for earlyhistory googlepages com I get nothing. Please read WP:WEB (under criteria), WP:RS (e.g. Non-scholarly sources) and WP:NOTABLE and ideally please solve this one link first before you start posting to all the other entries you've been trying to make. Ttiotsw 19:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Remove a linnk?
The last link "Article: "Should Christians Celebrate Thanksgiving Day?" " Does not belong in a an encylopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.92.241.233 (talk) 01:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Merge with Thanksgiving?
Should this article be merged with Thanksgiving? Some of the material is redundant. . . .
- Strongly oppose - This article was recently split from Thanksgiving, for the reason that American Thanksgiving and Canadian Thanksgiving are really two different holidays. The Thanksgiving article was basically two separate articles interleaved, and was hard to read. When it was split, it became simply a disambiguation page. Since then, it has been expanded a little to include some basic information on both the American and Canadian holidays, which is probably good. There are links to the main articles Thanksgiving (Canada) and Thanksgiving (United States) for those who need/want more details.
- Merging this back into Thanksgiving would mean that Thanksgiving (Canada) would need to be merged back in as well, which would bring back the original problem: Two essentially distinct holidays sharing the same article. Those who want to read about Canadian Thanksgiving need to sift through all the information on American Thanksgiving and vice-versa. —PurpleRAIN 14:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Strongly Agree - The articles are the same and i doubt any other people apart the complainer above me will have any problems with it.
Strongly oppose - The two holidays do share several traits, but they are not even on the same day. I'd suggest Thanksgiving just be a disambiguation page leading to either Thanksgiving (United States) or Thanksgiving (Canada) without the level of detail it currently deals with. Two holidays, two pages. --Blake the bookbinder (talk) 13:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Strongly Oppose - Canadian Thanksgiving and Americian thanksgiving, are very different, done in different places , done on different days. Keep it how it is Warrior4321 (talk) 16:12, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Strongly Oppose as has already been said. Let's not reverse a good decision made for good reasons. As Americocentric as I am in so many ways, we must remember this is the English language Wikipedia and not the American Wikipedia. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 18:37, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Qualified Oppose - Keep the two articles separate, but only subject to Blake the bookbinder's condition - 'Thanksgiving' should just be a disambiguation page. Cooke (talk) 10:31, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Strongly Oppose The holiday as celebrated in the US is significantly different from Canada, and for that matter other countries where similar holidays are observed. As such (and given the amount of US specific information in this page) it seems inappropriate to reduce the amount of real information on the celebration of Thanksgiving in the US. This is in line with the "Article size" guidelineTletnes (talk) 18:06, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Check quotes for accurracy
The quote attributed to Governor Bradford is dubious as it has rather romanticised flourishes characteristic of later 19th century American mythology about the so-called Pilgrims of Massachusetts Bay. The Pilgrims were English Separatists in reality. Phrases such as "all ye Pilgrims" and "in ye meeting house" are to be verified. The archaic English word "ye" served as both a form of the plural "you" as in "Praise ye the Lord" meaning "All of you praise the Lord." It also functioned as a contraction for the word "the" so that the phrase "in ye meeting house" was understood to mean "in the meeting house." Jm3106jr 13:14, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
- Good point. We're taking it as provided by Catherine Millard, who may not be a respectable historian. It's not in Bradford's memoire, "Of Plymouth Plantation". ·:· Will Beback ·:· 18:42, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
There are problems of historical accuracy in the article which reflect common scholastic misconceptions. In particular, the role of the natives in the lives of the settlers. The factions developed interdependent relationships with one another. But the pilgrims certainly would not have perished without the assistance of the natives. Historically, the settlers were adept at farming and fishing (both being staples of life all throughout Europe at the time), though popular culture seems to portray them as utterly incompetent in these areas. The result of this misconception is to miss exactly WHY the settlers were thankful and to whom. The were thankful FOR the natives among other blessings; they were thankful TO "Almighty God." In all written accounts from the time period, all the way through the proclamations of the 1700s and 1800s, we see that Thanksgiving's theme is thankfulness TO God, FOR the blessings the attribute to him. This is politically incorrect and historically accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.170.34.199 (talk) 16:33, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- I would argue that bringing the settlers into it as the main focus is a scholastic misconception. The thanksgivings that make up the majority of this article (i.e. pre-1863) are more of the generic thanksgiving mentioned in the main article. They exist as thanksgivings, but they aren't connected through tradition, which is what the usual implication is. Novium (talk) 20:55, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
There are actually a lot of very shaky sources (to folksy websites with no solid historical pretensions) throughout the whole article.Cooke (talk) 10:38, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Needs to include a more secular intro
The quote about Thanksgiving being traditionally about giving thanks to God for the bounty/harvest I don't have any qualms with but I'm not sure that is the case for the majority of Americans for the last few decades. Thanksgiving in many parts of the country does not have overt religious connections so I'd suggest keeping the traditional definition and purpose but adding something along the lines of "but modern Thanksgiving celebrations are more connected with secular family gatherings and a large celebration meal". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.182.103 (talk) 07:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
- I brought back a phrase that was recently deleted. It goes some way toward getting at your point. Ichormosquito (talk) 18:00, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] criticism
Every year the Nation runs an article about the bloody side of Thanksgiving: giving thanks for victory after massacring the Pequot, etc. I was expecting to see some of that here, or perhaps counter-claims that this is exaggeration. Certainly the idea of Thanksgiving as at least historically a celebration of conquest is widespread enough to warrant mention? kwami (talk) 11:40, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
- As a "random" sample of one, that is the first time I've ever heard that interpretation. Might it be regional or something? (I've lived in California essentially all my 53 years). Jackrepenning (talk) 15:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] History -- first Thanksgiving
Shouldn't Frobisher's thanksgiving celebration be first? I forget the precise date, it was held sometime in the late 16th century in modern Canada. 128.208.35.229 (talk) 02:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Berkeley Hundred charter quote
This quote is allegedly from the charter of the Berkeley Hundred:
| “ | We ordaine that the day of our ships arrival at the place assigned for plantacon in the land of Virginia shall be yearly and perpetually keept holy as a day of thanksgiving to Almighty God. | ” |
I've removed the given citation and requested a new one, because the one there fails to verify. If you go and read the actual web page, the article quote is not there. Indeed, the words "God" and "holy" appear nowhere in the cited page. There is a similar quote, but not using the phrasing given in the article. —DragonHawk (talk|hist) 23:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Presidential pardon incorrect
see National Thanksgiving Turkey Presentation The tradition of pardoning a turkey started with George H.W. Bush. Tletnes (talk) 17:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
