Category talk:Thames-Coromandel
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[edit] CfD discussion
This category, under the name Category:Thames/Coromandel,_New_Zealand, was listed for deletion. The consensus was to keep it but to use a hyphen in the name instead of the slash. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 00:55, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] New Zealand categories
These appear to violate the general policy of showing a heirarchy inside the category name. -- Beland 03:05, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Category:Bay_of_Plenty/East_Coast,_New_Zealand
- Category:Hawkes_Bay/Wairarapa
- Category:Manawatu/Wanganui
- Category:Wellington/Kapiti
- Category:Thames/Coromandel,_New_Zealand
Upon further inspection, I think these might have been intended to be Area X/Area Y categories, where X and Y are nearby but distinct. I'm not sure these are particularly good names. -- Beland 03:11, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Perhaps rename to e.g. Category:Hawkes Bay and Wairarapa? I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that some of these are the English and Maori names for the same place. --03:40, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- KEEP. You are wrong about that - they are not the same places with Maori and European names. The reason for the creation of these categories in this form is straightforward,m and not too dissimilar to what Beland says, with one exception. the regions are neighbouring and not precisely defined. In each case the pairs of regions overlap to a significant degree, and as such it would be impossible for them to be categorised separatelyy. Some towns in the Wairarapa, for example, can also be said for some purposes to be in the Hawkes Bay. There is certainly no hierarchy in the category names, any more that there would be if there was a category for Minneapolis-St Paul, Dallas-Fort Worth, or Bosnia-Herzegovina. The most obvious example of this is Manawatu/Wanganui, a region controlled by the Manawatu-Wanganui District Council. The Thames/Coromandel region is similarly controlled by the Thames-Coromandel District Council. They may not be particularly "good" names, but they are definitely the names by which they are known in New Zealand. As such, they serve a definite and useful purpose - surely the fact that they are the local names counts for something. It may be that the categories will later be split into separate constituent parts, but unless someone draws exact points on a map that everyone can agree with, I don't see it happening in a hurry. Please leave them as they are. Grutness (former inhabitant of Thames/Coromandel!)
- PS from Grutness - would it make everyone happy if they were renamed as Category:Bay_of_Plenty-East_Coast,_New_Zealand, Category:Hawke's_Bay-Wairarapa, Category:Manawatu-Wanganui, Category:Wellington-Kapiti, and Category:Thames-Coromandel,_New_Zealand? Not with "and"s, though. (Hawke's Bay should have an apostrophe anyway).
- If the region is actually called Manawatu-Wanganui, then that should be the category name (but not with the /). The policy is to use the name that is actually used for that region, except where disambiguation is necessary, in which case nation/stave/province information can be appended. I'm trying to find evidence of Thames-Coromandel, Hawke's Bay-Wairarapa, and Bay of Plenty-East Coast, all of which seem, in the articles here, to be broken into distinct districts or regions. Wellington (region) actually says that it includes the Kapiti Coast district; if this is the case, then there should be one category for Wellington and perhaps a sub-category for Kapiti Coast. If the district is a sub-set of the region, then the category should be named for the region, shouldn't it? -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 18:12, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- 1) Try Thames-Coromandel (district), New Zealand for one of the remainder; 2) as I said, the regions overlap to such an extent that separating them out would be nigh-on impossible. The city of Porirua, for example, is in Wellington, and in Kapiti. People in Wellington city are not in Kapiti, people in Paekakariki are in Kapiti but not in Wellington. This is distinct from the "Wellington Region", which is a purely administrative term and has little bearing on how the people of the region see themselves. The article goes on to say that the Wellington region also covers the Wairarapa and Manawatu, putting those terms in quotation marks to indicate they are in some way unofficial terms. If you went to any of the town or cities in the area and told them they were part of the Wellington region, you would be run out of town. (Actually, this article is one of the ones that needs a thorough overhaul - some of the "facts" in it are a little odd, to say the least). It is worth noting that several of the articles in this category mention the overlap of the two regions; 3)As for the articles not indicating any overlap, that's because the ones that do are still in preparation. The New Zealand geographical articles are a major ongoing project at the moment, and the southern North Island is an area which is going to be tackled over the next two to three weeks. PLEASE PLEASE KEEP these regions. They are the accepted usages within New Zealand. As such, according to Aranel/Sarah's own comment "The policy is to use the name that is actually used for that region", and as such to change them would go against that policy.Grutness
- If they are legitimate terms then they are legitimate terms and there is no reason not to use them, as long as there is an attempt to be more or less consistent. (Don't worry, a CFD listing is often just an expression of confusion.) I would prefer to see categories without the /, however. More typical style would be to use a hyphen. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 02:47, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Agreed - hence the PS earlier. To refer back to Beland's earlier comment, the oblique stroke is more often used (in NZ at least) when places have both English and Maori names (cf. Mayor Island/Tuhua). I think my biggest concern about the change (other than the common usage of the names) is that NZ geography is a highly volatile part of Wikipedia at the moment (I've added some 200 articles to it in the last month, for example. I need to get a life ;) Grutness 04:20, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC).
- If they are legitimate terms then they are legitimate terms and there is no reason not to use them, as long as there is an attempt to be more or less consistent. (Don't worry, a CFD listing is often just an expression of confusion.) I would prefer to see categories without the /, however. More typical style would be to use a hyphen. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 02:47, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- 1) Try Thames-Coromandel (district), New Zealand for one of the remainder; 2) as I said, the regions overlap to such an extent that separating them out would be nigh-on impossible. The city of Porirua, for example, is in Wellington, and in Kapiti. People in Wellington city are not in Kapiti, people in Paekakariki are in Kapiti but not in Wellington. This is distinct from the "Wellington Region", which is a purely administrative term and has little bearing on how the people of the region see themselves. The article goes on to say that the Wellington region also covers the Wairarapa and Manawatu, putting those terms in quotation marks to indicate they are in some way unofficial terms. If you went to any of the town or cities in the area and told them they were part of the Wellington region, you would be run out of town. (Actually, this article is one of the ones that needs a thorough overhaul - some of the "facts" in it are a little odd, to say the least). It is worth noting that several of the articles in this category mention the overlap of the two regions; 3)As for the articles not indicating any overlap, that's because the ones that do are still in preparation. The New Zealand geographical articles are a major ongoing project at the moment, and the southern North Island is an area which is going to be tackled over the next two to three weeks. PLEASE PLEASE KEEP these regions. They are the accepted usages within New Zealand. As such, according to Aranel/Sarah's own comment "The policy is to use the name that is actually used for that region", and as such to change them would go against that policy.Grutness
- If the region is actually called Manawatu-Wanganui, then that should be the category name (but not with the /). The policy is to use the name that is actually used for that region, except where disambiguation is necessary, in which case nation/stave/province information can be appended. I'm trying to find evidence of Thames-Coromandel, Hawke's Bay-Wairarapa, and Bay of Plenty-East Coast, all of which seem, in the articles here, to be broken into distinct districts or regions. Wellington (region) actually says that it includes the Kapiti Coast district; if this is the case, then there should be one category for Wellington and perhaps a sub-category for Kapiti Coast. If the district is a sub-set of the region, then the category should be named for the region, shouldn't it? -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 18:12, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Keep yes these are all the accepted names for these regions which do have indistinct boundaries/over-lapping areas. However I do support changing the / to a - for all. - Drstuey 10:28, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- With - instead of / would be much improved. -- Beland 07:29, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- OK then - looks like a degree of consensus for the following. Actually, given the names, the "New Zealand" suffix is probably unnecessary on all of them:
- Category:Bay_of_Plenty/East_Coast,_New_Zealand
- Category:Hawkes_Bay/Wairarapa
- Category:Manawatu/Wanganui
- Category:Wellington/Kapiti
- Category:Thames/Coromandel,_New_Zealand to become
- Category:Bay_of_Plenty-East_Coast
- Category:Hawke's_Bay-Wairarapa (with the apostrophe)
- Category:Manawatu-Wanganui
- Category:Wellington-Kapiti
- Category:Thames-Coromandel
- any objections to that? If the answer is "no objections" we might as well run the bot routine...? [[User:Grutness|Grutness talk
]] 10:47, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
-
- Here's how I count the votes: one keep, 1 keep with and, 3 keep with -. The articles with these names use -. I think that's a consensus for -. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 22:24, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
