Talk:Terrorism in Indonesia

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Terrorism in Indonesia article.
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[edit] POV and factual issues

'Needs expansions' is no excuse for leaving POV and factually misleading material in an artice. As it stands, this article shows the most superficial understanding of terrorism not just in Indonesia but anywhere? What type of terrorism? I presume Islamist extremist? In which case, it is POV to not include the non-'western' targets when there have been more Indonesian targets. Ever heard of FPI and Laskar Jihad? If not, you should not be writing an article on terrorism in Indonesia.

This is an important topic, but unless it is soon provided with some more depth, and rounded, factually non-misleading information then i suggest it needs to be deleted.Merbabu 14:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

this is a good moment to help me on it. No need for attacking me. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
lol - groan. is that how it works? Maybe the title/scope is the first issue. What about Jihadism? or Islamist violence? I'm no expert either, but i can smell a problem in article's like this easily enough? Look at Laskar Jihad, Ambon, Poso. What about Jihadism in South East Asia? But, the broader topics are so much hard really than say a specific attack - you are cutting out a lot of work for yourself.
Some links for starters, i am sure others can help:

[1] [2] Chose broadly but carefully from here: [3][4] --Merbabu 15:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Ive added the NPOV tag since JI formed around 1969 and Al-Q didn't from until 1988 why does the article imply JI is a direct affiliate rather than an associate with similar objectives. Why when events classed as "terrorism" in the Indonesian region are assumed/presumed/proven to be done by JI is this article attributing it as Al-Q events. Gnangarra 15:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Candidate for deletion (or changing title)

This is a suggestion....

  • In view of the connected articles- I do not believe developing this article further in its current title and assumpption of its one sentence is of use in the Indonesian project as a whole for the following reasons -
  • (1) the premise of starting it on a very limited view of JI does not an article make - Indonesian forms of terrorism are not simple - and either Kusuwarmy or Sidney Jones only have partial views (if it is possible to have a 'total view' its another issue)
  • (2) To date - the indonesia project has had mainly stub level articles about various bombings in indonesia - and publicly available information about the events is as speculative as it is potentially misleading - closely to being not encyclopediac
  • (3) There are significant historical and indonesia wide dimensions to this - to do a thorough and adequate article with such an ambitious title - there are simply not the editors or sources to get beyond a stub at this stage
  • (4) The Indonesian project has shown the capacity to gradually build a group of articles and stubs to fill the category of terrorism in indonesia - only after a much longer time do i believe the project or the available editors will have adequate resources to even contemplate getting beyond that stage - to invest time and energy at this stage in battling with definitions, context and what constitutes encyclopediac content for such an article is folly
  • This has been made in good faith, and if someone who is competent to claim to have the resources to develop this article with the current title and context of the first sentence and the presumptions made from the startup comment - then maybe there is a big world of x million indonesians who live in complete ignorance of their own economic, social and political conditions - who need to be told by some wikipedia editor what it is. SatuSuro 01:32, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Which follows that if there is a label 'In Indonesia' and it is taking regional and historical context adequately - its a big question with some quite contradictory evidence...- the term terrorism also needs to be addressed - the mysterious supermarket fires in jakarta of the 1980's and 1990s would need to be addressed as they were also random acts from potentially unknown assailants? SatuSuro 04:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No response

As the creator of this article has not responded - I see no reason why it should not be put up for Afd - the related template box has been changed so many times as to be redundant SatuSuro 22:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

In its current state it would just about be eligible for speedy deletion. It flies close, but not quite close enough to criteria G1 (patent nonsense) and A1 (very short with littel or no context), but doesn't quite fit either of them, so if deletion is chosen, it has to be via {{prod}} or AFD. This is sad, as the topic indicated by the title has the potential to be interesting, with coverage of JI, but also Aceh, Maluku, Papua, Timor etc. I don't have the background info to write, only to read. Sorry. Is there an Indonesian collaboration project to work on topic like this? --Scott Davis Talk 23:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


I was trying to qualify my comment above - and we had an edit confilcit - I had started with the comment below - but in response to the posting above - will qualify the suggestion after it-

::Suggestion - that instead of the difficulty (historically, logistically and POV) of this article that five or so articles should be created:-

* Bombings in Java and Bali

  • Inter-ethnic violence in Eastern Indonesia
  • Inter-ethnic violence in Kalimantan
  • Political violence in Java
  • Political violence in Sumatra

I believe they are far more appropriate for encyclopediac NPOV and accuracy - rather than 'Terrorism in Indonesia unqualified - that is with insufficient historical, regional, and style of violence qualifications...SatuSuro 23:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

In response to my query on the Indonesian Project multiple talk pages - there was only one response to my request for a discussion about terrorism within the project - and it would appear that the project in general has the capacity to elicit responses to specific smaller issues - (as I have already stated above) rather than trying to take a subject like this head on in all its problematic components. Which is why I am suggesting the smaller component articles SatuSuro 00:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Satu, this is a good suggestion. Are you able to jot down a few bullet points about what each proposed article could cover? We could then make a nav box to link them all (ha ha)! Merbabu 01:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)