Talk:Terrence Malick

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[edit] Where was he born!?

Well was he born in Waco, Texas or Ottawa, Illinois!?

This is the first (and appears to be uncited) reference to him being born in Ottawa, Illinois. I'm looking into it now. Liontamarin (talk) 17:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
http://movies.nytimes.com/person/100893/Terrence-Malick/biography Lists him as being born both in Ottawa and Waco.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2005-12-15-malick_x.htm USA Today says Waco, exclusively. http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2004/11/04/Entertainment/You-Should.Know.About.terrence.Malick-792745.shtml Daily Texan cites Waco, Texas. http://www.austinfilm.org/terrence-malick Austin Film Society says Waco.

There seems to be some confusion as to his birthplace, and I'm changing the article to reflect that. Liontamarin (talk) 17:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

My changes to where he was born have been reverted due to one source (Ephraim Katz's Film Encyclopedia). It think, while it may be considered an authoritative source, that it is obvious that there is confusion as other authoritative sources (New York Times and USA Today) either contradict or confuse the issue. I think it would be unfair to give prejudice to one source when it is clear that there is confusion surrounding the issue from various, legitimate and citable sources. In the hopes of not starting an edit war, I'll wait to see if there is a discussion, but if there isn't a consensus it seems only fair to revert back to acknowledge, as many other wikipedia articles have, the contradiction in sources. Especially as there does not appear to be a single, popular winner. Liontamarin (talk) 23:37, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Katz is far more authoritative for this kind of information. Furthermore, Katz explains that Malick was born in one place and raised in another, which makes understandable the confusion found in some other, less careful, sources, such as newspapers. The other sources give no indication that they have actually gone out and researched the information, whereas it is hard to explain what Katz writes in any way other than that he has found out this information in some definitive way. One would not write, "X was born in Y and raised in Z" unless one was fairly sure it was the case. Given that there is a plausible explanation for how the other sources may have got it wrong (misled by the fact he was raised in Texas into thinking he was born there, or misled by other sources which were themselves misled in this way), it seems clear to me that Wikipedia should take Katz as authoritative in this matter, until such time as a preponderance of evidence indicates otherwise. Mtevfrog (talk) 07:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
"it is hard to explain what Katz writes in any way other than he has found out this information in some definitive way." That sounds kind of sketchy to me, but also your claim that the New York TIMES or USA Today do not fact check. I would say, actually, that the New York TIMES and USA Today would be considered far more reputable sources than Katz. It is NOT hard to explain that Katz could have found out the information in some non-definitive way, because he could very well be using an outside source that has flawed information, just as you are suggesting my sources are flawed in some way. Also, to earmark one source as definitive and ignore the fact that there is significant confusion among many, many other sources about where the subject of the article was born is to leave out significant information about the subject. Other biographical articles mention disparities in birthdates and birth places, so I feel that the precedent is set for us to do the same, until a REAL definitive source comes through (like an interview with Terrence Malick). I think both of us would be hard pressed to find a "definitive" piece of evidence, given Malick's noted reclusion, whichi s all the more reason to give his birthplace as "either" Waco or Ottawa, as so many other sources of repute have. Liontamarin (talk) 08:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
ALSO, your version (and I'm assuming the Katz version) leaves out all mention of Waco, Texas, stating he moved directly from Ottawa to Austin. It seems funny that Waco is left out entirely when that isn't the case in any other mention, even those that list Ottawa as his birthplace. This is incongruous with the majority of information (that I have seen) about the man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liontamarin (talk • contribs) 04:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Katz states: "Born on Nov. 30, 1943, in Ottawa, Ill. The son of an oil-company executive, he was raised in Waco and Austin, Texas, and Bartlesville, Oklahoma." So you are incorrect about Katz leaving out Waco, and it seems as though you are fishing to find reasons to doubt Katz. I find your argument unconvincing: Katz definitely gives me the impression he knows where Malick was born and where he was raised, with greater detail and more specific information than the other sources. Mtevfrog (talk) 06:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't matter what impression Katz gives. Just because it is confidently written does not mean that it is not as faulty as any other information. There's not reason to be going on and on about this, multiple, reputable sources state two different points of view on the subject. We should present this fact in the article, as is done with other articles. It is not our job to attempt to guess which source is reputable or not. The argument here is not about presenting a definite fact, because the FACT remains that there is, among other source-able material, a difference of opinion about where he was born. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liontamarin (talk • contribs) 02:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
It has nothing to do with being "confidently written." Do whatever pleases you, but I believe Wikipedia is the poorer for it. Mtevfrog (talk) 02:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citations and The Tree of Life

Not sure if this article should reflect the current gossip about the film, whatever it might be, unless there is some real evidence for it. I looked for some but did not find anything substantial. I would guess a piece in Variety or some industry mag. would be great, but all I found was this at 'Ain't it cool news': http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20485. The same could be said about other bits of info, e.g. "According to The New World producer Sarah Green..."

Since Malick is such a mysterious figure I would think some citations, beyond the references, would help this article, and also give readers some direction if they want to do more research or reading on malick. --Gottg135 23:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Assyrian-American TO Lebanese-American

Please do not change Assyrian-American TO Lebanese-American if you do not have any proof

--67.166.133.88 02:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)




Though they are hard to find, there are availible photographs. Please post a photograph of Mallick.

[edit] Overlong? Is this accurate?

The following sentence in the artcicle is possibly misleading:

"complaints that his films, although beautiful, are often overlong and ponderous"

Quite to the contrary, Badlands and Days of Heaven are noted for their brevity (both run at 90 minutes). I agree that criticism of over-length have been applied to his last two features (which, hey let's face it, were bloody long). Perhaps this distinction should be made? Strummer72 09:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Assyrian or Lebanese?

Which is it? Sounds Lebanese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.0.126.81 (talk)


  • Assyrian is an archaic term when labeling people from that nation. Assyria = ancient civilization, centuries old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitrus (talk • contribs)
--
  • Assyrian are still arond, if you do not know your history, please stop spreading lies, that Assyrian are something of the past. --67.166.133.88 02:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
http://www.zindamagazine.com
http://www.aina.org
http://www.nineveh.com
http://www.cired.org
http://www.betnahrain.com

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.166.133.88 (talk)

  • I am sorry to inform you but Terrence Malick "Terry Malik" is an Assyrian.

http://www.zindamagazine.com/html/archives/1999/feb1_1999.htm#Anchor-BRAVO --67.166.133.88 12:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

  • You don't seem to understand: I'm not denying that people of "Assyrian" ancestry don't exist. I'm saying that "Lebanese" is now the proper term for them. It's just like how "Persians" became "Iranians." Persian and Assyrian, like Mesopotamian or Celtic or Visigoth, etc. are old and archaic terms. Look up ARCHAIC in the dictionary.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitrus (talk • contribs) 06:52, 11 August 2006

  • Modern Assyrian are not called Labanese, they are known throughout the world as Assyrian and in ancient world Ashurian or Ashuraya even the name Assyrian come from Ashurian look up the greek Assyrous.
  • Another thing when you are in Iran, try to call any of them Iranian and see what they say, they always refer to them self as Persions not Iranian.
  • Labanese are of canan/phonecian descent.

some Labenese like the Maronite and the Jacobites are full blooded Assyrian that moved thier.

--67.166.133.88 02:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


Also, "Zinda magazine" is not known trustworthy source, it's some obscure ethnic newsletter. Yahoo Movies, on the other hand is:

"Father: Emil Malick. worked for Phillips Petroleum; of Lebanese ancestry"

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/contributor/1800021157/bio —Preceding unsigned comment added by 06:52, 11 August 2006 (talk • contribs) Kitrus

"Lebanese" is the proper term for them? Assyrians are dispersed throughout the world; so what would you call an Assyrian from India? Lebanese? What made you classify Assyrians as Lebanese? Why not African or Chinese? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zingo (talk • contribs)

The Yahoo Movies article says his father is OF LEBANESE ANCESTRY. End of Story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitrus (talk • contribs)

No way, I met the guy my self and he is an second generation Assyrian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Esarhaddon (talk • contribs)



  • Well, can you give the sources that state he is a Labenese. I want the original source, not the Yahoo or any other entertainment news agency. --67.166.133.88 04:12, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Yahoo is an extremely reputable source. Don't ask me to explain why. I know you're not that stupid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitrus (talk • contribs)

It doesn't make sense calling an ethnic Assyrian from Lebanon, Lebanese when he hasn't even born in that country. "Lebanese" is not a ethnicity, its a nationality. Chaldean 08:05, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

    • He's not "ethnic Assyrian", so please stop stating this as if it's a fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitrus (talk • contribs)

READ THIS

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20060828/24042.htm

Any more questions go ahead and contact his cousin (She an Assyrian) and ask her. www.rosiemalek-yonan.com --Esarhaddon 21:01, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

So here's the tally- First, you called me a liar and go ahead and edit the article without providing citations. Then, when you do provide a citation it's a weblink to an obscure online ethnic newsletter (Zindamagazine.com), all the while reverting my edits. Next, one of you claims to have personally met him, amid more reverting. I then provide a respected, acknowledged source to the table that clearly states the Malick is HALF-IRISH, HALF-LEBANESE. That source is Yahoo News which aggregates news from established outlets like Associated Press and Reuters. And most recently you add a news "source": Christian Post, which says that his cousin (!) claims they're all Assyrian. Then you ask me to contact his cousin to make sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitrus (talk • contribs)
Are you really trying to find his real identity or do you want just to argue with me. The source that I provided you was recently add to the christianpost.com by Rosie-Malek-Yonan, witch in her testimony before congress and under oath said she is an Assyrian, and she also stated that her cousin Terrence Malick, was instrumental in helping her get to DC for her testimony. Her whole testimony is online in text and in video stated in the article that I provided to you. Now, the source that I provided for you was written by Rosie Malek-Yonan, her recent book, "The Crimson Field," is a historical Lit that talk about the Assyrian massacre in 1915, Rosie went to washington to testify before Congress about the current satuation of Assyrian in the Middle East and more specificaly in Northern Iraq. The website that I post for rosie Malek Yonan was her official website, I gave you the address so you can send her an email and ask her directly if she is realy an Assyrian and Terrence Malick is her cousin, even againt the the recent source that I provided. -- Esarhaddon 07:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not denying that an Assyrian ethnicity exists and that they've been persecuted and that Rosie M. Yonan is one. What I'm saying is this: you have still failed to provide a trustworthy source that states that film director Terrence Malick is not half-Irish, half-Lebanese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitrus (talk • contribs)


Why are you people debating something when you don't have enough information to come to an accurate conclusion? Just because someone fails to provide proof that he is NOT half Lebanese and half Irish doesn't mean that he is IS half Lebanese and half Irish... People, unless he tells the public what his ethnic background is then we should just leave the subject alone. One thing that IS true is that you do not call yourself Lebanese unless you were born in that country or your parents, grandparents, etc. were born in Lebanon. Plus, if my parents were Italian but I was born in Lebanon I wouldn't say I am Lebanese.... I would say I am Italian. If you were born in the US you basically call yourself what your ethnic background is... Assyrian, Persian, Caldean.... all of these ethnicities are spread over a region... Persians, for example, are found in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. So, if you weren't born in those countries but your parents, grandparents, ancestors, etc. were then you would simply say, "I'm Persian" Get it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.38.30.145 (talk)

You haven't been paying attention. Read my posts before making comments like this. For the umpteenth time: My source is Yahoo News. Yahoo News reports that he is Lebanese on his father's side and Irish on his mother's side. How hard is that to understand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitrus (talk • contribs)


I don't have to provide you witha source that say he is not that or that, how often that happen in a article. If his cousin is Assyrian and she said that she is an Assyrian and related to Terrence Malick, would'nt that make his identity Assyrian. One more thing, I wonder where did Yahoo News get thier Biography of him from. --24.10.117.56 20:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
So now you're questioning Yahoo News as a source? What source are you going to question next, The New York Times? Washington Post? We might as well start supporting our evidence by word of mouth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitrus (talk • contribs)


As much credible Yahoo News is, it does not hold up to a testimony before a hearing and under oath. I have provided you with two sources that state the obvious and the only thing you can do is repeat your self.
If you do not precent actual evident, maybe a testimony, and you change my post back to Labenese-American I will have to lock this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.10.69.105 (talk)
So now you're suggesting that we hold the writer of the Yahoo News piece "up to a testimony before a hearing and under oath"?
I have had to repeat myself because you and others have failed to understand or comprehend the arguments I repeated over and over. "The obvious" is this: The source I provided (Yahoo News) is credible and reputable and you have even admitted so, while the sources you have provided are not (you have yet to argue against this).
Finally, what in the world makes you think you have the final say in this, especially since you're not even a registered editor? If anything, I should lock the page, but I have the decency and tolerance not to. Why don't you instead bring a neutral moderator in and hear our arguments out and have him/her decide? --Kitrus 20:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't think that 'Assyrian' and 'Lebanese' are mutually exclusive. shotwell 06:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Woah, slow down a little

Don't invest so much emotional capital into the discussion. Don't do personal attacks, it only weakens your case. There's no use threatening to lock the articles when you're not even a admin. It doesn't matter who right, only what's right. In fact, even more important than that, is that discussions go forth in a calm and civil matter.

There's greater shame to stick to the wrong answer, than to admit that you're wrong.

I suggest that those involved try to really look into the opinons of your fellow editors. We're all here to try to make an already great encyclopedia better. We might argue, but the goal here is the same, finding out (one might argue trivial matter) of what ethnicity Terrence Malick has. And once you arrive at a conclusion, forget this and move on.

(For some relevant guidelines/policies see: Wikipedia:Civility, and further Wikpedia:Assume good faith)

I realise I may not be clever at resolving disputes, but I'll try the best I can helping out on this. Delta Tango | Talk 22:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Delt-
I agree. The problem is that around a dozen Assyrian editors (registered and unregistered) have reverted my edits on a near daily basis, despite my having asked them to talk it out on the Talk page. They have presented no new arguments and they have yet to refute my source. As of now, Terrence Malick is Lebanese.--Kitrus 06:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


Thanks delt for taking this case, I hope we can start with facts and ends with facts, Kitrus it's your turn, present your facts to Delta and I will follow. -- Esarhaddon 16:13, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


  • First, I just want to say I'm not a mediator in any official sense. Here's my take on this, I would like to know what you guys think about this.
As shotwell points out, they don't need to be mutually exclusive. I've been looking around at articles about ethnicity and Lebanon here on WP. The encyclopedia of the Orient entry on Assyrians state that there are around around 5000 (0,2%) of those living in Lebanon are Assyrian.
1) So only a small distinguished part of Lebanon are Assyrian.
2) So if somebody is both, that might be worth pointing out.
3) Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Terrence have:
a) a mother of Irish decent?
b) a father who's an ethnic Assyrian of Lebanese decent? (remember, not mutually exclusive!!!)
and 4) Maybe we could say that Terrence Malick is an American film director of Irish and Assyrian Lebanese decent.


Are there any points above any of you agree or disagree on? (I'd rather have you both disagree with me, than to disagree with each other. ;-) Delta Tango | Talk 19:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


Hey Kitrus and Delta I have some recent photo email that may solve this problem. Look at the following two photo email that I upload recently. Rosie Yonan 1 and Rosie Yonan 2 --Esarhaddon 01:31, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


If no body will reponsd I will revert the article on 12/01/06, I post to Email photos that will solve this problem --67.172.179.192 05:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Just as the entry on Scorsese begins "Martin Scorsese is an acclaimed American film director," so too should the Malick entry say he is "an American film director" (I'd add the acclaimed too). Anything else is well short of an encyclopedia entry. If his parental ancestry is relevant, it can be discussed elsewhere in the entry. He is an American film director. Mtevfrog 05:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Malick's Picture

Can someone please source the Malick photo? I uploaded it, but I'm not sure how to credit the image to remove the deletion warning. Please do this within one week of Oct. 14, 2006. Thanks. --RPaleja 05:28, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

The man is a living genius and he doesn't even have his own website.

[edit] Deleting unnecessary reference to Malick's ethnicity

Quoting Mtevfrog:

::Just as the entry on Scorsese begins "Martin Scorsese is an acclaimed American film director," so too should the Malick entry say he is "an American film director" (I'd add the acclaimed too). Anything else is well short of an encyclopedia entry. If his parental ancestry is relevant, it can be discussed elsewhere in the entry. He is an American film director. Mtevfrog 05:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. We should stop this edit war and keep ethnicity out of this article. A number of non-Assyrian editors agree with me on this. Problem resolved.--Kitrus 00:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

If people can agree on this; fine. In the #Biography section, you may write out in full all the relevant ethnic ancestries. Doesn't he have an Irish mother and a Assyrian Lebanese father? If this is so, we can write this out in full so nobody has to disagree. This will be sort of a compromise there seems to be no reason to disagree with. Delta Tango • Talk 07:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

His ethnicity is important, I have my third confirmation that his father is Assyrian and his mother is Irish, Labanese is no where in the picture, check the two photo-email that I posted that I got from his cousin. I will except the following.
Rosie Yonan Malick 1 Rosie Yonan Malick 2Esarhaddon 00:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


I agree with Delta Tango. Even though your evidence remains insufficient (their is no way to verify whether you digitally altered that Screenshot), I would be fine with "Assyrian Lebanese", since Assyrian is an ethnic group and Lebanese is a nationality, and it does happen to be the case that his father is a Lebanese national. I think this should be (way) more than enough to appease the Assyrian editors. --Kitrus 00:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Rosie Malick said about Terrance: Due to her expertise on the ongoing Assyrian Genocide, as evident from her book, The Crimson Field, on the suggestion of famed Oscar winning director, Terrence Malick, in 2006 Malek-Yonan testified on Capitol Hill about the plight of the Assyrian Christians in Iraq.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.168.241 (talk) 06:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)




I do think so, the only think you have provided is a link to Yahoo Movies and I asked you for the source of that or at least where yahoo get their info about TM being a Labenese national. I have provided you with three pieces of evidence and you are still are not convinced. I will send both the email posted on this section to see for your self that they are not alterd. His father has nothing to do with Lebanon, he was born in Urmia, Iran. Also TM natiolity is American not Labenese, and even "if" his father nationlity is Labenese that does not make TM nationality Labanese, he was born in American. Esarhaddon 01:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
     Nationility: American
     Ethnicity: Assyrian-Irish
     
     PS:Post your email here or email me your email to esarhaddon@walla.com so I can send both emails.