Talk:Tent

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See? There are people here who know about tents. I was starting to think that the average Wikipedian is too glued to his computer to go camping.
I intentionally made 'tent fabric' italic instead of bold, because AFAIK it's not a canonical term. Smack 22:29 29 May 2003 (UTC)

I suggest that emergency triage centers be mentioned under this topic since a tent is most often used to support one. Also, the military uses tents to conceal vehicles, information centers or other functions (not always during wartime). I doubt that it should be the focus, but it should at least be described. Triage has it's own topic. [Guest] 16:51 4 May 2004 (GMT)

Contents

[edit] tent

can anyone pls tell me about what are the main fabrics the tent is made of?! please?

[edit] Frame tents

Frame or pole tents differ in that the tent skeleton is erected first - a series of interlocking poles - and the tent canvas placed over this structure. It is quite different to the regular tents mentioned in the article.

[edit] Circus tents?

Could we add a topic about circus tents? They were a big part of the culture around the turn of the century. It was the tent that made it possible for circuses to quickly move from town to town, bringing big-city entertainment to the smallest villages in America. I think they're worthy of a mention in this article. Joe 20:22, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] older tent styles

Is it worth adding a section on 'Older Tent Styles'? I can think of three off-hand - pup tent, circular bell tent, and square center pole tent. Murray Langton 10:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ease of putting up a tent

I also disagree, having just come back from Iraq where we put up "tent cities" with tents as large as 20' x 20' or larger, it took our crews more than 10 minutes to put up and take down these tents. I would like to see some references as to where the information in this article is coming from, besides being from personal experience. (added by 209.30.207.244, 1:15, 1st March 2007).

I've removed the questional claim re time to pitch a large tent. Murray Langton 06:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with many of the comments as to how easy or difficult it is to put up a particular type of tent. Basically, provided you know what you are doing, almost any tent of reasonable size can be erected fairly easily; this is why camping books/articles recommend trial pitching at home before heading out. Anyone else have any particular views? Murray Langton 10:40, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. You must FIRST segment between Camping/Shelter tents (for which I agree with your statement) and larger tents which often require crews of people and specialized equipment to erect, can be dangerous to erect in high wind situations, etc. specially, in the article, in the "Larger tents" section some one writes, "A 20' x 20' tent can be erected or taken down by one person with experience in less than 10 minutes." Maybe a 20 x 20 tent from Walmart of Kmart but not one that is designed to be long lasting. 69.116.170.107 15:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Substantial rewrite being considered

See my two previous Talk:tent posts.

I'm thinking in terms of a substantial re-organisation/rewrite of this article. Major sections will likely be (not necessarily in this order):

  • Parts of a tent
  • Units of measurement (USA feet/inches, elsewhere metric)
  • Shelters (dining tent, beach shelter, fisherman's shelter, gazebo, etc.)
  • Modern tent styles (dome, tunnel, expedition, etc.)
  • Older tent styles (ridge, square, bell, etc.)
  • Larger tents (marquees, circus, etc.)
  • Selecting a tent (size, weight, weather resistance, price, ease of pitching, etc.)
  • Tent care

Any comments/suggestions?

Murray Langton 12:43, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Go for it, I reckon Murray - these additions would be helpful. I've mulled over your suggested headings and they work for me. More images would be ideal too, e.g., to showcase various tent types throughout the ages and across cultures. One type you might add to the list is the bivvy bag, unless that has its own article. Happy to help out. Sincerely, Jtneill - Talk 11:13, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand the purpose of the "units of measurement" section. I'm also wary about the sections on choosing and maintaining tents. There's certainly a lot of encyclopedic content on those topics, but I would not like to see them turn into how-tos.
P.S for Jtneill: The bivvy bag does have its own article. See bivouac sack. --Smack (talk) 20:55, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Cool, I've added bivouac sack to See also. Jtneill - Talk 04:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I've also added a stub for fly (tent). Jtneill - Talk 04:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
We also seem to need a stub for ground sheet or groundsheet (not sure of correct spelling. Jtneill - Talk 04:51, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

the only wiki markup ive seen is to groundsheet under Bivouac shelter and Fly (tent). there are a few other pages that mention it but dont markup. ive linked it back to this page for now so at least people can find out what it is -Lordraydens 04:34, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

'Units of measurement' is now likely to be just a paragraph in another larger section 'General considerations'. Reason for inclusion: tent vendors in the USA give tent sizes in feet and inches, while centimetres are used in many other parts of the world (including UK). Wikipedia is meant to be international in scope (even if aimed at English speakers). Where tent sizes are relevant, I'm proposing to give the numbers in centimetres (with feet/inches in brackets). Murray Langton 21:28, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
For weight of tent I'll also have to use Kg (with lb) in brackets). Murray Langton 07:53, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
'Choosing tents'. I think that an encyclopedia can reasonably list criteria to consider when choosing a tent, and indicate which are the most important criteria for particular circumstances. Murray Langton 21:28, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
'Care of tents'. Smack, I tend to agree with you as it being a doubtful sub-topic. I'll think about this one some more (I just put it in for completeness). Murray Langton 21:28, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I have a private draft under way, and expect that it will reach Wikipedia within the next two weeks, at which stage it can be "edited mercilessly" as others see fit. If you look at the history of Bicycle gearing you can see how much others have improved my original version. Murray Langton 21:28, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Murray, I'd say remove the "this article has just been restructed", etc. comments from the start of the article (put it at the start of Talk) - its not a standard WP template and even then consensus seems to be that many of the templates such as cleanup, etc. belong on Talk pages, not on the Article pages. Kind regards, Jtneill - Talk 12:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi Jtneill. I was planning on removing it completely in about a weeks time, once I've added all the detailis I have in mind. In the meantime it alerts readers to the fact that this article is still being worked on, without the "keep clear" messaage implied by the "{ { inuse } }" flag. Murray Langton 12:15, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi Murray, The comment re the temp sentences just comes on the back of having recently watched some edit wars with senior Wikipedians to-ing and fro-ing over templates on article pages - maybe look into whether there's an appropriate template you could apply e.g., check Wikipedia:Template_locations. I'm not much into policing myself and still learning the ropes myself, so just letting you know. Keep up the great work. Sincerely, James. Jtneill - Talk 13:47, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's the major revision done. I expect that I will be adding bits and pieces and making minor corrections for a few more weeks. Murray Langton 16:05, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Nice drawings! Quickbeam

Thanks :) Maybe one of these days I'll redo the dome tent.

Hi Jtneill One thing that would be helpful is more (copyright-free) pictures of various styles of tents, if you know of any suitable source. Murray Langton 12:15, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi Murray, I've got my eye out for more images - I'm sure I've got some sitting around here on the hard-drive somewhere. Sincerely, James. Jtneill - Talk 13:47, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I added the improvised style, public domain just for you guys. HighInBC 03:13, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wilderness - Article Improvement Drive

You might be interested to vote for the Wilderness article on the Article Improvement Drive. Jtneill - Talk 01:55, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal Experience

Having substantially rewritten and extended the article on tents, it may be helpful for others to know something of my background to help them form an opinion as to the quality of the article.

  • I am 187 cm tall (6 ft 2 in) and my three sons are all over 192 cm tall (6 ft 4 in).
  • My camping experience started in about 1955. In New Zealand I camped with my family, with the Scout association, and with various tramping (backpacking) clubs. In Europe I have camped by myself, with friends, with the Scout association, and with my family. In the early 1970's I did three solo camping trips around various parts of Europe, with trip length between two and three months each. In recent years I have done some bicycle camping, towing a small trailer behind the bike to hold all my gear.
  • I have personally used the following types of tent: simple bivouac (flysheet with groundsheet), hammock tent, single and double skin pup tents, ridge tent with and without flysheet, square center-pole tent, bell tent, frame tent, basic dome tent, tunnel tent.
  • My previous tents were a single skin pup tent, 150 cm by 210 cm by 150 cm high (5 ft by 7 ft) weighing about 2 Kg, and a double skin pup tent 210 cm square weighing about 3 Kg. My current tent is a double skin tunnel tent weighing 5 Kg; the inner tent is 210 cm by 240 cm by 140 cm high (7 ft by 8 ft by 4 ft 8 in high), and the living area is the same size as the inner tent - room enough for a bicycle and a trailer.
  • Pitching a square centre-pole tent in 11 minutes (my family did a month-long camping trip in NZ):
    • 2 minutes: 2 people spread out the tent canvas, 2 people place poles and guy ropes near canvas.
    • 3 minutes: 2 people hold up adjacent corner poles while 2 people bang in the pegs for the two guy ropes for each of these poles.
    • 3 minutes: repeat previous step for other two corner poles.
    • 3 minutes: 2 people insert centre pole and raise the roof, 2 people insert poles at centre of each side and attach single guy ropes to each.

Camping is fun! Murray Langton 16:52, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Anecdote: On the first stop of our month-long NZ camping trip, it took us all of 14 minutes to pitch the tent - we all had previous relevant experience but had never actually worked together as a team for tent pitching. A neighbouring camper remarked to my father that he had never seen a tent go up so fast. My father took great pleasure in responding that "we had never pitched that particular tent before". Murray Langton 09:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links - Spam

Mwanner recently removed all the 'external links', labelling them as 'spam'. On looking at Wikipedia:Spam, I would suggest that this is not the case here, since these links are not widely scattered across Wikipedia, but are instead only on this 'Tent' page, and are intended to provide ready access to pictures of many different types and styles of tents.

What I have done is check all the external links, remove a few which were broken or not relevant, and provide a better categorisation of the links, so that it is much clearer as to which sites are directly trying to sell things and which are not. In particular, I am of the opinion that it is OK to provide links to tent manufacturers where these sites do not themselves provide online sales. I am willing to be convinced about the merits or otherwise of sites which actually sell things. Murray Langton 09:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I have no financial interest in any of these sites, though I did buy sleeping bags and a tent from one of them a few years ago. Murray Langton 10:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Following some discussion at Mwanner the idea is that more pictures of tents be added as available. Once enough are on the page, the commercial links can be removed. Murray Langton 13:28, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

In the hope that this may be done sooner, rather than later, let me add a link to the the relevant Wikipedia policy WP:EL and quote a bit from it
"Links to normally avoid [...]
  • Sites that primarily exist to sell products or services.
  • Sites with objectionable amounts of advertising..."
I think it would be fair to characterize all of the present external links as meeting one or both of these criteria. -- Mwanner | Talk 14:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I think that the third link 'tent care' might just about be acceptable; it is from a commercial site but has no advertising apart from links on left leading to products for sale. Murray Langton 16:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed the Spadout.com link due to the fact that it was added by the owner/maintainer of the site which is prohibited in the external link policy WP:EL. Furthermore, the history of the contributions of the user who is responsible for adding the link shows that that users contributions are centered almost exclusively around the addition of links to pages on the Spadout.com site. This has since been reverted quoting an in context link. Since this was "added" by someone neutral in this case, the link can be considered justified, but regardless, spam has prevailed if left and no action opens the door for abuse under similar circumstances. Since I have no interest in tents, I'll leave this one down to those who regularly contribute as per policy:

A website that you own or maintain, even if the guidelines otherwise imply that it should be linked to. This is in line with the conflict of interests guidelines. If it is a relevant and informative link that should otherwise be included, mention it on the talk page and let neutral and independent Wikipedia editors decide whether to add it.

WinterOfDiscontent 16:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I re-added that after it was taken out for those reasons(a long time ago) becuase I saw it was full of topical information and was not commercial in nature. So, mabye take another look at the site and reconsider, if you still feal it is not appropriate here then I will respect that. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 16:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
What you just added in that last paragraph is just what happened. When his link was removed he asked here about it and I decided it looked on topic. This resolved the conflict of interest. So do you have any issue with the links relevence or informativeness? HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 16:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
That's fine - I was unaware of any previous issues being resolved. I have/had no issue with the relevance of the link (not for me to judge), my only issue was the viral nature at which they seem to be on similar articles as part of a mass link add (search for spadout to see so examples), and the passive nature that this actioned has been condoned on a few articles. If you guys are happy with that then so am I WinterOfDiscontent 17:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Needs a substantial re-write

This article has become a "how-to" on going camping, losing sight of the fact that this is an encyclopedia, not a magazine (see WP:NOT-- "Wikipedia articles should not include instruction [...] or contain "how-to"s). I am starting a rewrite with that guideline in mind. Also, I intend to remove all external links except manufacturers sites.

And I have removed the "units of measurement" section since units are an issue in a substantial number of articles, but we don't include a section describing the issue, we just provide inch and metric as needed. -- Mwanner | Talk 12:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remarks

"To allow for inclement weather, some covered living space may be desirable" yes, i would guess that may be a desirable feature of a tent, possibly. (unsigned remark by 131.251.96.5).

'living space' as distinct from 'sleeping space' Murray Langton 22:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article bias

Article is far too biased to Western practice of "recreational" camping and nearly totally ignores the uses of tents by nomadic peoples throughout history, as well as present-day use by the military, as well as the fact that for many less fortunate people in the world, living in a tent is a way of life and not just a bit of decadent fun like it is regarded in the West. This should be corrected. 81.105.63.242 23:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

As it happens, my only experience with tents is 'recreational camping'. Could you either update the article yourself or point me at some references which can be used to widen the scope of the article. Murray Langton 08:02, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

In reading through the current article, which I like and wish to see improved, I noted a lack of citations.

One citation I found doing a google search was on a manufacturer of Military tents.

http://www.cis.tennessee.edu/library/pdf/fom_summer_2007.pdf "Camel Manufacturing, a tent-making company in Campbell County, has been manufacturing tents for the U.S. military for 88 years. Of the six companies that provide military standard tents, Camel has been doing it the longest and now makes about 43 percent of all military tents."

Another I found was a general site on tents.

http://gorp.away.com/gorp/publishers/menasha/gea_tent.htm This covers most common tent fabrics, tent pole materials, care and waterproofing. This may prove helpful to content of this topic.

I am willing to help. I am a new user of Wikipedia and a very casual user of the computer. So if you wish help please be specific about what you want me to do and I shall as soon as I get the information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Papabear6288 (talk • contribs) 16:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)