Talk:Tennessee Walking Horse

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Contents

[edit] Celebration controversy

Is this a site about the overall Tennessee Walking Horse breed, or just the unbridled, biases opinions of one zealout who admits NEVER having attended a TWH show? I'm confused...

Please sign your posts. Um no, there have been multiple editors on this article if you check dates. Some of us know and appreciate Walkers and have been to shows, and even know there are shows where the horses are not sored. But the disgrace at the celebration was the disgrace at the celebraton, and the expose in Equus was well-documented. If the breed doesn't clean up its own act and continues to apologize or deny the behavior of its bad actors, well, those are the zealots blind to the facts. Montanabw(talk) 04:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

The disgrace at the Celebration? The USDA VMOs are the disgrace! Turing horses down on the scar rule? It's outrageous! I raise TWH yearlings every year, and we have three right now with small scars on their front feet. They have never even been ridden, much less sored or worked with an action device! Instead, they simply cut themselves while in the pasture with their mothers, probably on a section of fence or by tripping while running. Because of these natural accidents, they may never be able to show. That is a loss of thousands of dollars of investments, and these colts have never even been handled before, much less "sored"! Explain the rationale behind denying their entrace into a horse show, please. Tell the simple country farmer in Belfast, Tennessee, that the colt he raised after saving to purchase the rights to breed to a decent stallion that his investment is useless, because the colt accidently cut his foot while in a pasture. How is the scar rule logical or even fair? I work with my hands, and I have scars on both of them. Am I abusing myself? The scar rule shut down the Celebration, and it is an absurd, totally unfair rule. I do not condone a sore horse in my industry. It is a disgrace and inhumane, and I, along with nearly every supporter of the performance horse, have worked tirelessly to eradicate the sore horse from my industry. We have made tremendous progress, and anyone that knows anything about horses or the Tennessee Walking Horse industry, and I mean a truly knowledgable horseperson, can attest that the industry is far cleaner now than it has ever been. That is why I cannot stand for people such as yourself, who obviously do not know about the state of the industry, to lambast us like we are some crazed animal abusers.

On the case of soring: one author obviously does not believe soring is a problem in the TWH industry, and writes in such a way that proposes the critics of the industry a misguided. I'll admit that I have never been to a TWH show, and I don't known first hand about the issues of soring. But it is a well-known fact that soring is still an issue (Horse Illustrated and Equus magazine did an article on the subject a few months ago, and I know of TWH enthusiasts who know for a fact that soring still goes on). To try to dampen this matter in the article is uncalled for. While I think the *vast* majority of TWH riders do not sore their horses, the problem is still big enough to be mentioned in this article without someone trying to dampen it down and make it sound as if the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. I can understand that the TWH industry is probably misunderstood, and has an undeserved bad reputation by other equestrians, but wikipedia is supposed to give an unbiased view, and soring should be mentioned. Perhaps a non-equestrian should do research and write that section. Eventer 28 February 2006

Any non-equestrian doing research on soring will find nothing that supports the practice, plenty of evidence that it occurs, and nothing other than industry apologists who contradict what happened at the celebration. However, they are free to look. I personally encourage this outraged anonymous IP to do some research and present a VERIFIABLE source that supports his or her views. As far as I am concerned, this rant is about the same as the cigarette industry claiming that tobacco doesn't cause lung cancer. And incidentally, I have owned horses all my life, (over 40 years) including a number of ranch-raised horses who lived inside barbed wire fences and surrounded by rattlesnakes, gopher holes, rocks and sagebrush. I have never have seen a young horse "naturally" injure or scar themselves in a manner that resembles soring scars. If this really happened, this IP may want to reconsider their pasture management practices and perhaps consider bringing in a dump truck to remove whatever is out there that creates such a hazard. Montanabw(talk) 17:04, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NYPD?

I understand that the horses used by the NYPD Mounted Division are Tennesse Walkers, originally a gift to New York. If this is true it's worth noting. --Wetman 07:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Soring edits

Article has been rewritten since last Feb., put in material on soring. Still, the soring section is periodically blanked or blanked and apologist POV material inserted in its place. This violates wikipedia guidelines for POV and verifiability. Soring information here is primarily from Equus piece, flat-shod TWH sites and other reputable sources, listed at the bottom of the article.

There is also a non-horse admin person watching the page and periodically reverting blanking edits.

I suggest that anyone who wants to "damp down" the info on soring produce cited source material and not industry-promotional hearsay. Also have the courage to register and have a screen name so the issue can be discussed, not just hit the article and run. I note IP addresses from the same general location keep doing this.

When there is constructive material added that is not self-defensive POV pushing, it will stay.Montanabw 08:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Update "sorely" needed.

Somebody needs to update this article with the recent and relevant news from the Tennessee Walking Horse show world. The 2006 Shelbyville Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration declared no grand champion becasue USDA inspectors disqualified six out of nine horses in the championship class. I gathered from the National Public Radio broadcast about this story that the qualified entries who did pass the inspection all elected not to enter the ring for fear of harm when passing through the very unruly crowd that had amassed after the USDA announcements.

How does one add updated info to an article? --Soltera 18:28, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Check the footnotes and external links. I think I already put a link to the news article in a footnote. I know the earlier expose on soring done by Equus magazine is in the external links section. You are welcome to put in either an external link to a good news article (I think there is one, though) or a small and WELL WRITTEN edit on the topic if you wish. I will only say that wikipedia has to be at least somewhat NPOV on the issue. We don't have to give the pro-soring side (just like the articles on the Holocaust don't have to give the pro-Nazi view) but we have had a lot of trouble with apologists for soring going in and blanking the entire section or replacing it with pro-industry drivel, so if some of these things aren't put in neon lights, it is only because wikipedia is not a soapbox. I also wonder if we should create a whole separate article on soring where all the horror stories can be told...you can do something like that too, whatever you want! Read the help pages about creating an article! Montanabw 20:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Checked the article, you must not have read the whole thing. It says: "At the 2006 Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration [3], the dispute between trainers and USDA inspectors came to a head. The inspectors disqualified 6 of 10 horses from showing on the night of Friday, August 25. The trainers denied soring and challenged the monitoring methods. The result was that the celebration classes were canceled that evening and the following morning, Saturday, August 26. At that point, the monitors and trainers reached a temporary agreement, allowing the celebration to continue Saturday evening. Canceled classes were rescheduled. However, a more permanent agreement on monitoring methods still needs to be negotiated, and trainers and inspectors continue to meet." Montanabw 20:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] update on Soring

I was at the 2006 National Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration. The crowd was not unruly. The issue of scar is this: what is a scar and what is a callous. Some of these horses ARE sored. Most are not. The USDA has been calling callouses scars. That's where the problem lies. These animals are athletes. ALL athletes have callouses. The Regulations allow a 6 ounce action device to enhance the gait. The horses are trained with these action devices. They rub callouses on the horses feet. The trainers are working on methods to remedy the callous problem, such as spats. The horse wears spats on its front feet to keep the device off its skin. The industry is working hard to resolve the issue, and this years Celebration was a great success. Bethnoham 19:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, not all "athelets" have callouses OR scars, especially on the pasterns. This has long been the excuse given by those TWH folks who deny that soring is a problem. However, objective, outside evidence says otherwise. ASB folks don't have this problem, and they too use action devices. ASB's are not under the auspices of the Horse Protection Act. Neither are Arabians or Morgans, which are also breeds where some trainers use action-enhancing devices. Oh please, do spare us the apologist propaganda. At least, where is there documented, verifiable information that contradicts these below? Montanabw(talk) 23:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and 2007 WAS a success. The USDA was there in force the entire time! Coincidence? I think not!

Oh, and here's my favorite:

"Dr. Behre also addressed the scar rule. He began by questioning why the pasterns of Tennessee Walking Horses show tissue changes that do not occur in other breeds and disciplines of horses. He showed slides of eventing horses, reining horses, cutting horses, dressage horses, and combined driving horses and explained that, in each of these disciplines, the horses are exposed to mud, dirt, sweat, and friction yet their pasterns show no tissue changes. He showed slides of American Saddlebreds and Hackney Ponies. He pointed out that both of these breeds use action devices, commonly on all four limbs, yet their pasterns also show no tissue changes. He related that he had gone to the American Saddlebred World Championship show and had walked the show grounds looking at horses in the stalls and being worked and saw only virgin pasterns He also discussed Tennessee Walking Horses not trained for the show ring - field trial walking horses, pack line walking horses, backyard walking horses. He explained that these horses also show no tissue changes on their pasterns so it’s obviously not a breed characteristic. Likewise, he discussed the back pasterns of show walking horses, which are free of tissue changes, stating that they were exposed to the same bedding, the same amount of feces and urine, the same amount of bathing, etc. He then stated that if the mud, dirt, sweat, and friction, the action devices, and breed characteristics were not the cause of the tissue changes seen on the pasterns of show Tennessee Walking Horses, in his opinion, the primary cause must be the application of chemicals."

So please, spare us all any more nonsense. Go complain to the holocaust denial crowd or the Flat Earth folks or something. Montanabw(talk) 23:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)