Talk:Telematics

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[edit] Etymology

Who is Dennis Foy? When did he describe the etymology of the term telematics?

To my knowledge the term telematics is the anglicised version of the French word télématique, a merger of the words télécommunication and informatique, that has been coined 1978 by Simon Nora in their report:

S. Nora and A. Minc. L'Informatisation de la société. Rapport à M. le Président de la République. La Documentation Française, Paris, 1978. English translation: The Computerization of Society. A report to the President of France. MIT Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1980.

I also disagree on the following statement "... the term later evolved to refer to automation in automobiles ...". Automative telematics is only a subset of telematics! Please check the German Wikipage on the topic which is much more accurate.

88.18.18.41 23:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC) Asvin

Per my review of the Computerization of Society, Simon NORA, Alain MINC, Rapport d'Etat, the French documentation, 1978, the document, the “telematics” association that NORA and Pierre Alain MINC defined is completely different from the information technology and telecommunications applications defined in the telematics wikipedia article – networked or connected automobiles exchanging GPS coordinates or magnetic orientation information, for example, were never envisioned or even mentioned in this document. If you ask the authors they will tell you, because the majority of the systems described were not even invented yet. You will see the report is intrinsically linked to a “crisis of civilization” and the need for social change. Strategic approach to the report NORA MINC in the context for the birth of the new economy and the nature of the new economy – the paradigm of the information technology – the financialization of the new economy – the organizational and legal ramifications – the restructuring of organizational models of production systems – the deregulation of information and productivity.

This association that NORA and Pierre Alain MINC called “telematique” inherently differs from the ‘information science and technological systems operating via telecommunication devices’ (telecommunications informatics, information sciences delivered wirelessly) autonomous and intelligent vehicles described in the article, furthermore the document is intrinsically linked to a “crisis of civilization” scenario and the need for social change.

The emergence of telematique according to Pierre and Alain MINC NORA, the information explosion appears as a computer which expanded rapidly changing ad infinitum the computer field simultaneously with networks providing access to data and processing capabilities. The Internet for example? One computer, one customer, and the world wide web?

“The industrial sector should experience a restructuring, the hiring freeze. They speak through harmonization of administrative services and the recovery of arrears of automation of French industry under the pressure of international competition (automation, production management by computer, tracking decentralization). In consequences “the only industrial jobs will be created now because of the small and medium enterprises”.

“As a first step, we will meet the ideas of the authors of the report without intervention; this except an organizational work to show that NORA for Simon and Alain MINC, the computerization process was a global social phenomenon leading to social change, the change necessarily controlled by the state, in a particular way which seems to correspond to the context French 1970's, "the crisis of civilization", the main setting of the State in communications, centralized state and the international context. In a second step, it is put into perspective "the report NORA MINC" with the analysis made by Manuel Castells of the computerization of society as “network society” in the ideological context with the “new economy”. The computerization of society leading to the new economy – an entire social world would then be integrated and covered by the economic field.”

The report was created because the french president saw the development of computer applications as a crucial factor in the transformation of economic and social organizational way of life, and so he confided to Simon NORA's mission” to advance thinking on how to lead the computerization of society”. I recommend anyone to read the entire report and draw upon their own conclusions – I also see the report as a brilliant composition of research conducted by visionaries in industrial organizational psychology, and nobody can take anything away from it. Lperez2029 (talk)Lperez2029 —Preceding comment was added at 18:12, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


Anglicization: I also disagree the term telematics being an Anglicisation of the French word télématique. As we examine portmanteau tele-matics, we find the formation entity of two particularly distinct English words telecommunications and informatics. For clarity, a direct translation of a combination of words without modification does not qualify it as anglicised. Note that Non-English words may be anglicised by changing their form and pronunciation to something more familiar to English speakers. For example, the Latin word obscenus has been imported into English in the modified form obscene. Changing endings in this manner is especially common, and can be frequently seen when foreign words are imported into any language. For example, the English word damsel is an anglicisation of the Old French damoisele (modern demoiselle), meaning "young lady". Another form of anglicising is the inclusion of a foreign article as part of a noun (such as alkali from the Arabic al-qili). Tele- is a Greek prefix meaning "distant" – it can be short for television, telephone, or telegraph. Matics- from the mathematics in relation to automatic data transfer of information sciences (informatics) or informational mathematics (such as computer data transfer). Please also note the word telematics evolved to mean information automation in automobiles because the global community is now well beyond the ‘computerization of society’ years. There is no more need to look to the the future in this perspective because the future is here, and it’s called the Internet.

So, as we presently have it, the elegant chosen word telematics now remains in use to describe the new up and coming ‘telegrammable automatization of society’ – one of the many benefits will be telematically controlled autonomous intelligent vehicles roaming safely on the intelligent highway -- transporting people and goods in the new global community of safe public transportation -- vehicles that do not allow themselves to crash. Lperez2029 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 18:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I'm not convinced that the articles on Emergency warning system for vehicles and Intelligent vehicle technologies are appropriate as individual articles. They also both have a bit of a "spam" feeling to them, as though they're advertising something. As such, I recommend that they both be merged into "Telematics." Does anyone else have an opinion? --Elonka 09:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Elonka; Thank you for your observations regarding the convergence of Emergency warning system for vehicles and Intelligent vehicle technologies articles. Your assumption is correct! Let's consider merging these articles. Kind regards --Lperez2029 21:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

On a secondary note, when I created these two articles I originally intended them for inclusion under the Wikipedia Telematics heading. However, being new to Wikipedia, (and not wanting to invade space) I did not think it appropriate at the time to include the writings - hence the separate articles. In the field of Telematics, I believe I can make a strong contribution to the encyclopedia, and therefore have to agree on a merger.

Please also keep in mind the presentation on Intelligent vehicle technologies and Emergency warning system for vehicles articles were written with the intent for anyone with minimal electronics background to easily comprehend. Therefore the articles may have a slight feel of spam to the more seasoned or experienced individual in the field of high technology. The systems presented in the articles have been developed for application, but have not yet been physically deployed in the United States as part of an operational system envisioned for the intelligent highway of the future. Thank you. --Lperez2029 15:44, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I have merged the two Intelligent vehicle technologies and Emergency warning system for vehicles article headings introduction paragraphs with Telematics. The Body of the Telematics article layout appears okay to me - any objections please let me know. Also, unless anybody objects with good reasoning, I am allowing the two standalone articles remain as is so as not to altogether 'crowd' the Telematics page. Thank you. --Lperez2029 18:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Observation

The titles of both these articles have captured the interest of all experts.com[1] and answers.com [2], and also appear to have generated an exclusive audience of advertisers who may very well benefit from 'standalone' articles like these. I am beginning to think it's a good idea to have both. Does anyone have any thoughts on merging these two articles and also allowing them to remain separate -- perhaps it would help attract more contributors to Wikipedia? --Lperez2029 18:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Netistix

Thank you for the 'external link' input. Please contribute to the article by expanding it. Actually, it is WP policy to contribute encyclopedic material and crossreference information to external links. Contributions are needed to the article - not just the addition of links. Thank you! --Lperez2029 19:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of 'external links' tag

I revised and organized the external links section. I left the external links to what I thought appropriate for the article and recommend that future considerations for link additions be discussed in this talk page before inclusion. Simply adding links without contributing to the article is considered inappropriate. --Lperez2029 21:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge of Wireless vehicle safety communications to Telematics

I have merged Wireless vehicle safety communications article to Telematics. The section still needs some refinement (to better fit harmoniously in the Telematics scope) -- all good input is welcome. --Lperez2029Lperez2029 23:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Total elimination of road related injuries and traffic related deaths

Inevitably, the question of the reality of the possibility of the "total elimination of road related injuries and traffic related deaths" has popped up. Well, that's good - we read, we think, we respond, and that is perfectly normal. Per World Health Organization 2004, "World Health Day Road Safety is no accident" theme, [3] when we (the Telematics industry) embarked on the mission to reduce traffic fatalities worldwide we set an ultimate goal to achieve, and so we focused on a vision which we refer to as "Vision Zero fatalities", Why? because that absolutely should be the goal (see for example, Bill Gates view and comments of that vision [4] - - Just like when the United States set a goal to go to the moon (a vision which few believed was even possible) we endeavored to fulfill it, gave it our best scientific effort and accomplished mankind's ultimate dream. Today, the world united to put an end to traffic fatalities should come as no surprise - We can do that, and in the not so distant future we will! Anything is Possible. Thank you --Lperez2029 22:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I added some information on the observation that telematic auto insurance has seen a 20% reduction in accident rates among young drivers.
As far as the statement in the summary that the potential for telematics is virtually limitless including the complete reduction in accident rates, I think that is a bit strong for an article of this nature. One could make similar sweeping statements about any new technology. As far as the references go, I couldn't find anything in the WHO report related to telematics. As for Mr. Gates, perhaps he should focus a bit more on creating software that never crashes. --Nowa 03:31, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Dear Nowa;

First, I wanted to thank you for your Telematic auto insurance entry. Statistics will show that Telematic auto insurance will certainly help reduce accidents as motorists become more aware of their actions while driving their vehicles.

I reconsidered the statement I made and agree with you that it is a bit strong for inclusion in the Telematics article (I suppose that if I were to invent a vehicle that totally eliminated the use of petroleum products, or devise a pill that once and for all eliminated the common headache or cold, the oil companies and pharmaceutical companies would not like it), and any statements pertaining to such systems would be considered ‘sweeping’ by nature. The total elimination of car accidents would put insurance companies out of business and that aspect itself can be a scary proposition to the insurance industry. Insurance companies want to reduce accidents, not eliminate them entirely; otherwise there would not be a need to purchase insurance -- So I get the picture, and agree with the modification of the statement.

Pursuant to your comment referencing the lack of the word Telematics in the content, please keep in mind the articles were produced during a period of time where the word ‘Telematics’ itself had not been defined (it was not even in the dictionary yet). You will find however, references to ‘Intelligent Vehicles’ communications systems and technologies: [5]

As far as Gates statement goes, he’s not the only one to imagine “Vision Zero” [6] - - there’s an active worldwide community of visionaries in the field of Intelligent Transportation Systems (see ITS America mission and vision on opening page www.itsa.org). I happen to be one of those visionaries (see ‘Vision Zero’ in chapter 5 of WHO Health Day 2004 [7])

Kind regards --Lperez2029 18:21, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

PS. After deploying the latest Windows ‘self-healing’ operating systems (that don’t crash) it appears Bill is focusing more on research: “We’re focusing more on research than ever. We’re building the technology that will enable computers to see, listen, speak, and learn so people can interact with them as naturally as they interact with other people.” — Bill Gates, Microsoft chairman and chief software architect

Lperez, Great references. I added them to the article. I also wordsmithed a bit. I put back in the vision of no accidents because that is well supported by the ITSA web site. That really is their vision. I took out the "virtually limitless" language because it stikes me as a bit of hyperbole. I think it's enough just to say it's promising.--Nowa 22:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Sir, and great job! I really appreciate your support in this matter. Besides Elonka, you are the second individual to have had some serious positive impact on this article lately - and it's getting better. Best regards --Lperez2029 23:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

There are several things which should be considered when adding an external link. Is it accessible to the reader? Is it proper in the context of the article (useful, tasteful, informative, factual, etc.)? Is it a functional link, and likely to continue being a functional link?

Adding external links can be a service to our readers, but they should be kept to a minimum of those that are meritable, accessible and appropriate to the article - Wikipedia articles can include links to web pages outside Wikipedia. Such pages could contain further research which is accurate and on-topic; information that could not be added to the article for reasons such as copyright or amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks); or other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article (such as reviews and interviews). Some external links are welcome, but it is not Wikipedia's purpose to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic. No page should be linked from a Wikipedia article unless its inclusion is justified. Note that since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links may not alter search engine rankings. If the site or page to which you want to link includes information that is not yet a part of the article, consider using it as a source first. Refer to the citation guideline for instructions on citing sources. This guideline refers to external links other than citations.

The above 'external link' general guidelines are from Wikipedia and should be followed - since Telematics is (fairly) new technology, meritable and accessible links to the article are deemed appropriate. Thank you. --Lperez2029 17:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

"There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia. On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate, marking the link as such. See Wikipedia:External links and m:When should I link externally for some guidelines". --Lperez2029 17:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
A list of telematics providers constitutes spam; Wikipedia is not a collection of external links. Veinor (talk to me) 18:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
In this instance, I have to disagree with your assesment that a list of telematics providers constitutes spam. Service providers in this Telematics presentation is used to define the various "providers" of Telematics systems and services -- are used to depict potential applications of such systems and therefore qualify to educate the general public interested in such technology. Please refrain from further edits to this page. Also, I have looked at your background and it appears you've made no contributions whatsoever to this article, or to the Intelligent Vehicle Initiative, telecommunications and informatics in general. Thank you. --Lperez2029 22:45, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Just because I don't know about a particular subject doesn't mean I can't judge the links. I have a history of link removal across many articles. And I will not refuse to edit this page just because you ask me to; you do not own it. All of the links under 'Telematics service providers', 'Telematics management services', and 'Telematics system developers' are intended to promote something, which WP:EL advises against. As none of them are the official site, I have to conclude that these links are inappropriate. Veinor (talk to me) 22:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me Sir, but everything that is done under the sun is meant to promote something in some way, shape, or form (including this very Wikipedia encyclopedia we have created - promoting "free" knowledge and education) if it were not so, there would not be a need, a drive, or a desire to do anything at all for nothing -- "If not for credit, why bother". Also, some individuals take a lot of intellectual pride in what they do, and they do it for reasons beyond lucrative engagements. Take a close look at wikipedia, and you'll find providers of services in one form or another on just about every page in the encyclopedia - that's because (in most cases) these people developed a system or method, and there's nothing wrong with that (as stated in WP:EL), displayed in links that may appear commercial. Best regards, --Lperez2029 23:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

True. But these links are promoting their particular product/service, as opposed to Wikipedia, which doesn't necessarily promote knowledge from Wikipedia. And, while there is nothing wrong with pride, WP:EL concerns sites that are chiefly designed to advertise. Veinor (talk to me) 23:34, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, except for a few of the listed sites, it appears the majority are not there to chiefly advertise. What do you suggest that is reasonable? Actually, there are no contributions to the article at all from most of these sites, what a sad story, welcome to wikipedia! --Lperez2029 02:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GPS Police

GPS Police I am going to suggest to you that before you Spam the network altogether, make a solid contribution to the article for a change - or to Wikipedia (monetarily) - but don't just come in and push your product by adding links while deleting those who added links but who also contributed to the Telematics cause -- your actions are considered rude and inappropriate. Get it together! Thank You. --Lperez2029 02:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, GPS Police and Baseloc provide free mapping tools and promote them in the geo sciences sections ( Alberta Township System, Legal Subdivisions, Universal Transverse Mercator of Wikipedia. They are used by about 150 different people each day from Wikipedia. We contribute to the geo sciences of Alberta by providing something that hasn't existed until we made it and its a pretty big deal here. Sorry to hear that you think GPS Police is rude, we're simply excited to educate professionals in the industry. Seanfour 01:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

If deleting the entries and links of good wikipedia contributors isn't rude, then what may we call it? [8] Perhaps you deleted by mistake, and that is understandable - would you say that's the situation here for clarification sake? --Lperez2029 21:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)