Talk:Tecumseh's curse

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The case for a "curse" is pretty much demolished by the UL reference pages:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/curse.htm

Ellsworth 17:22, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Of course there's no case for a curse. This article is terrible - it's more concerned with coming up with completely unsourced excuses for why Reagan didn't die than it is for explaining the origins of the legend. Gah. john k 20:36, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"excuses"? --Rj 16:37, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

On the other hand, it is true that every American president inaugurated in a year evenly divisible by twenty has eventually died. Make of that what you will. ;) - toh

'tis true. hmm... ``Rj 16:37, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

While I don't believe in actual curses, the coincidence does still exist. Sure, it's probably just a coincidence, and it seems likely that Tecumseh never uttered the curse attributed to him. Still, it's a common belief, so that alone justifies its inclusion, I think. Nik42 08:19, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This garbage about curses is totally foolish and is based entirely upon the need for people to make myths and complexity where none exists. It all stems from the same ideas as conspiracy, urban legend, and secret cults. Bible codes and curses only exist because coincidental links exist in all forms and it just takes someone making up the back-story for it to take hold.

I think there are some people who would love to see this "curse" continue with President Bush. He has made some decisions viewed quite negatively by a large number of people, including myself.

I'd be in Nik's category. There is no curse because there is no evidence Tecumseh did any such thing. In fact if Tecusmeh did have the power to curse William Henry Harrison he probably would've done it so it happened in his own lifetime. That being said there is a coincidence which is apparently real and kind of interesting. I don't think it means anything, but the snopes effort at debunking it is kind of lame. (Snopes is a creator of its own Urban Legends, as an example I've heard people sincerely believe Mr. Ed was a zebra because of Snopes, and shouldn't be taken as a gospel truth) What the reason for the coincidence is I can't say, but some math shows I've seen indicate human behavior is not all that random. Possibly every 20 years Americans elect someone ill, elderly, or very controversial for unknown cultural reasons.--T. Anthony 05:39, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

The Mr. Ed was a zebra story was a purposeful falsehood in a section entirely consisting of purposeful hoaxes. One of the articles revealed this. I don't see how the existence of a parody section can be used as a basis for doubting the veracity of Snopes in general. john k 06:43, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I have other reasons to do so. They have some pretty clear political biases on several issues. Plus they are open to the idea of treating their statements with some skepticism. That said I think the idea this is a curse is ludicrous. It is an interesting coincidence though as even their article on it essentially indicates.--T. Anthony 07:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Grenade in Tbilisi

I made a minor edit to the grenade thrown toward Bush ("Current Status"). It sounded as if the only reason the president didn't die was becuase the grenade didn't go off, when in fact it didn't even get close to him. source: CNN http://sidebar.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/20/bush.grenade/24.64.223.203 00:36, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Curse Exceptions

The curse article should exist just as the Curse of the Bambino article exists, despite it being over. And, just as that article mentions the 2004 Red Sox, this article should include details on how the curse has been violated, though both times by presidents with near'er-death experiences than most get in office. Staxringold 22:42, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Choking on a pretzel, and a grenade that didn't go off, aren't "near'er-death experiences" than most presidents get in office. Just in recent history, Gerald Ford had two assassination attempts against him, and Bill Clinton had a Cessna crash into the White House lawn, fell down a flight of stairs, and had the usual assortment of crazies sending him death threats. I have no argument against the curse article existing; the supposed curse is an interesting and notable topic. And I also agree that it should be mentioned that the curse has been violated by Reagan still being alive. But I disagree that we need to have a laundry list of ways that Bush might have died but didn't. It's original research and doesn't add anything to the article. —Cleared as filed. 00:22, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Clinton wasn't in the White House when the plane crash and he wasn't the target, and falling down the stairs isn't a near death experience (he didn't even lose conciousness). And 2 things are not a laundry list, they are a quick mention of the curse breaker #2 with ways he came close. Staxringold 11:20, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Losing consciousness isn't a near-death experience either. The two things are jokes compared to Reagan being shot and being operated on in the emergency room. They're like stretching to find something that almost killed Bush, and it's completely original research. —Cleared as filed. 11:30, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

HE HAD A GRENADE THROWN AT HIM! Staxringold 20:38, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

It didn't go off. There was no medical emergency, there was no near-death experience, and it's not encyclopedic for Wikipedia editors to make up fantasy "what-if" situations. IMHO. —Cleared as filed. 23:55, 1 November 2005 (UTC)