Talk:Tears Dry on Their Own

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[edit] Ain't No Mountain High Enough

There's no citation for the assertion that TDOTO is "superimposed" on "Ain't no Mountain High Enough". I can hear only superficial stylistic similarities, (which would be true of many songs of that period) with no discernible identity of chord structure or bass line. If the assertion is to remain, could it be documented? Paulcaira (talk) 12:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree; I've just been looking around for a source, and there are a variety of claims out there:

i) TDOTO samples the Gaye/Terrell original

ii) TDOTO uses an interpolation (a re-playing by a new band) of the original

iii) TDOTO samples/interpolates the original's entire backing track

iv) TDOTO samples/interpolates only the instrumental intro of the original

But the only concrete fact I can find is the published writing credit. I'm diluting the claim until a citation is found. --VinceBowdren (talk) 14:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Why would Ashford and Simpson be credited as co-writers by Winehouse's team if this song wasn't based on 'Ain't no mountain high enough'? Makes no sense.Monash 56B (talk) 22:20, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Well yes, presumably it was 'based on' the song in some sense; but we should really find out what about TDOTO was based on ANMHE before making the claim in the article. --VinceBowdren (talk) 21:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

TDOTO is not "based on" ANMHE, it IS ANMHE with different lyrics. I cannot find an article to back up my claim, I think a listening would do the trick: [1], [2]

To me the following is clear: a) The form (intro, verse, chorus and bridge sections) is identical b) The noteworthy descending bass line in the intro and verse sections of the original is intact in the new recording (and moved up major third) c) The chords are the same -- not just the chord structure, the chords themselves d) There are no clips of an older recording in TDOTO

Therefore this is not a "sample" of the original, nor is any one section of the original borrowed and expanded upon for a new piece of music. This is an older piece of music with new words written over it.Threesox (talk) 22:35, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to the user above who posted the links to youtube, I have now realised the source of my confusion. I had been listening to the Diana Ross version which is rather different. Having listened to the Gaye/Terrell version, I agree that clearly TDOTO is ANMHE with a different melody/lyric, and that the original description should be reinstated. It isn't necessary to do any more than hear this correct version to realise this, in my opinion. Paulcaira (talk) 19:04, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Here's a picture (last one) of the back cover of the British 12" single of "Tears Dry on Their Own", located at Discogs. I don't know if you guys can read it as the letters are pretty small, but the sixth line reads, "Contains a sample interpolation of 'Ain't No Mountain High Enough' written by Nickolas Ashford and Valerie Simpson". Funk Junkie (talk) 20:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Why did Vince remove Funk Junkie's edit? Surely there's enough evidence here to reinstate the claim. After all, Funk Junkie's only quoting the sleeve. How controversial can that be? There's a danger of infinite regress of authority here. If we don't trust our ears, and we don't trust the sleeve, what do we trust? Am I justified in undoing Vince's undo? (Wish I'd never started this!)Paulcaira (talk) 19:23, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I removed the edit back when there was no reference. Now we have a valid source and we know we've got our facts right, there's no reason to leave out the information anymore. --VinceBowdren (talk) 23:36, 12 March 2008 (UTC)