Talk:Teachings of Prem Rawat

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Contents 1 Name or Word Technique using a Mantra word 2 Bot Archiving Objections? 3 More scholars and more material 4 Knowledge Sessions? 5 These techniques can only be taught by him...

[edit] Name or Word Technique using a Mantra word

"Kranenborg additionally states that it employs mantras while exhaling." This Mantra idea is false and is not verifiable. The current techniques are not public but they have not changed from the old Knowledge days. These are widely available on the web [1]. Wikipedia is meant to inform as accurately as possible and hence I am removing the Mantra reference because it is misinformation.

[edit] Bot Archiving Objections?

If there's no objections, I'd like to set-up some auto-archiving here with miszabot, like I have on some of these other articles. These talk pages get a little unwieldy after a few hundred kb's. 14 days back is my thought. Any objections, speak up, I'll set it up tomorrow if none. -- Maelefique ^(talk) 07:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More scholars and more material

I've added the "scholars" material from "Criticism of Prem Rawat" as they are not criticisms of him but comments on his teachings. I've also begun adding more from the scholars. I have reverted to the last unmodified version as I'm not sure how much we can reproduce scholars material before breaking copyright rules. Comments please.Momento (talk) 21:45, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that inserting a paragraph-long quotation from each scholar is an effective way to write an encyclopedia article. It would be better to break the article into topics and include all relevant viewpoints on each topic. Straight quotations should go in Wikiquote. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree that long quotations are not a good practice. I am sure that you can help Momento and summarize these long quotes into good prose. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 22:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Or do we write a history of Rawat's teachings chronologically and not have a "scholars section"?.Momento (talk) 22:51, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I think that rather than summarzing those quotes it'd be better to research the important topics in this article and add what scholars say about them. Right now all the details about the teachings themselves are lumped into one section: "teachings". I suggest we split that into subheadings covering different aspects of the teachings, such as "meditation", "service", satsangs", etc. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:54, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there's enough material that will fit happily into those divisions.Momento (talk) 23:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I've seen plenty on each, so providing enough sources would not be a problem. One of the articles that was merged here used these headings: [2]

• 1 Origins
• 2 Descriptions
• 3 Experience
• 4 Knowledge sessions

"Origins" was renamed to "history". The others don't seem to be useful distinctions. There was a section titled " Generic references to the kryias, Knowledge and the teacher", which might cover material that predates Prem Rawat (Though "Techniques of Knowledge" may be a better title).

Yet another version of the article used these headings:[3]

• 1 Message and teachings
• 2 The Keys
• 2.1 The thirst
• 2.2 Accepting the world within
• 2.3 "Knowledge"
• 2.4 Knowledge is a journey, not a destination
• 3 The practice of Knowledge
• 3.1 Listening
• 3.2 Helping out, participating
• 3.3 Practicing the techniques
• 3.4 Importance of the living teacher

Those are a variation on what I was suggesting, though they don't appear neutral. Here's yet another version:[4]

• 1 World peace versus inner peace
• 2 The teachings
• 2.1 Conditions for the practice of Knowledge to bear fruit
• 2.2 What was and is now understood by “the practice of Knowledge”
• 2.2.1 Listening (satsang)
• 2.2.2 Helping out, participating (seva)
• 2.2.3 Importance of the living teacher
• 2.2.3.1 Appreciation for the teacher
• 3 The Knowledge process and the teaching of the techniques
• 3.1 The preparation and the Knowledge session
• 3.2 Criteria for being taught the techniques
• 3.3 Technology used for teaching the techniques
• 3.4 Ashram life
• 3.5 Mind and heart
• 4 Indian aspects in the presentation of the teachings
• 4.1 Indian staff
• 4.2 People speaking in his name
• 4.3 Communication through ashrams replaced by internet and satellite
• 4.4 Distance from Hinduism
• 4.5 Compatibility with religions

Some of that was merged to the DLM article, but it looks like it has some wortwhile material. Implementing that, whether through fresh research or digging through old versions, is a big job. I suggest starting with simple headings for Satsang, Service, and Medititation, as well as for receiving Knowledge and any other topical issues that are worth including. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 00:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I guess a lot depends on whether we divide it according to what Rawat says or what scholars say.Momento (talk) 00:42, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Many of the scholars and first person accounts I've seen describe three main aspects of Knowledge, including four types of meditation. They are the most reliable sources. Rawat is a primary source and should only be used to augment secondary sources. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 00:51, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I do not see what is the problem with the current sections. It works well as is. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:21, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, but it doesn't matter until we start expanding this article. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 05:23, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Knowledge Sessions?

Are there still personal Knowledge Sessions being given? Or are they just arranged showings of "The Keys" now? It's my understanding that "The Keys" is the only method to currently obtain Knowledge, but my notes don't seem to indicate where I got that idea from (I reverted my edits when I realized this, until this is cleared up). Can this be confirmed or rejected please? -- Maelefique ^(talk) 16:51, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

The Knowledge Sessions still happen, albeit via a multi-media presentation. Information is available in the Keys website: [5] ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 18:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] These techniques can only be taught by him...

Rumiton, you removed this phrase claiming it was unsupported by the ref given. If the techniques can only be learned from Key 6, and PR is the only one teaching on Key 6, why are you removing that phrase? I am unaware of any other way you could learn the techniques, since adherents are asked not to share their experience with others. Do you know of some other way that would invalidate that claim? -- Maelefique ^(talk) 14:32, 18 May 2008 (UTC)