Talk:Tazmamart

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[edit] Sources

The article lacks verifiability. There's no single source mentioned. Please, help bring them. Cheers -- Svest 00:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

ok. Arre 15:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New copyedit

Arre, I did a revision checking for sources related to each paragraph. I also tried to get the style more academic:

I added:

• The article is structured as per Wikipidia manual of style. Created section titles. There's now an intro, a history and conditions sections.
• Gave context to the article by linking the prison to the political life.
• In the history section gave a better explanation of the existance of the prison by linking it to the failed coup d'état. Also added info about Mon ami le Roi book. Without a history section, the article reader would find no context to follow.
• I added {{Fact}} to the Saharawi inmates.
• Added Years of lead as a see also as both subjects are related.

I removed:

• capacity for only 56 inmates. Not true. The reference given [1] talks about getting 56 detainees for the first time.
• summary executions occurred. In the reference we had [2], there is no such claim. The article puts it as a possibility.
• The Al-Ahram weekly reference is about the book of Tahar Ben Jelloun and I put if on further readings and kept the link.
• Scorpions and snakes. I removed snakes as Al Jazeera link only reports scorpions.
• feracious is an adjective and by nature we avoid using adjectives in wikipedia in order to avoid pov issues. Cold winter is enough.
• Surviving inmates have described the experience as "being buried alive" is not well sourced. They may describe it in all possible words but weather someone said explicitly and exactly being buried alive or not, nobody is sure. I also removed a "death camp" rather than a prison for the same reason while I believe that someone would have said it. But again, no sure. In case of statements declared by people, we have to be very carefull.
• Approximately half of those imprisoned in Tazmamart eventually succumbed to diseases, torture or simply the winter cold, is removed because it is tackled in the same section. Duplidation.

Please check and compare the two versions if the articl's lost any encyclopedic content. Cheers -- Svest 20:33, 19 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

ok. Arre 15:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I think this is fine. I did some minor edits, spelling stuff, links and a duplicate sentence in the intro on what prisoners there were. I have a few concerns only:

• Islamists. I'm not sure there were Islamists there. Did I originally write this? In that case, I can't remember where I read it.

It was me. Sorry.  ^{Wiki me up™}

• Sahrawis. I think this is in the Bourequat book. I own it, but I don't have it where I am now, I'll check when I get it. I also heard it from him personally at a seminar he held.

No problem though we will need that source later.

• Relatives of Oufkir. Are you referring to Malika Oufkir & family? They were never in Tazmamart, to the best of my knowledge, but in some other prison camp.

You are right.  ^{Wiki me up™}

• About Oufkir: I made an article on him too, a while ago. It is also unsourced (I'm better at that now :-), and I'll try to do something about that, but I would really appreciate it if you checked it.

We will see it later than ;).  ^{Wiki me up™}

• 56 people in the prison: that's the thing with Tazmamart. It almost only held, with a few exceptions (such as Bourequat and those Sahrawis he talks about) the cadets from the 1970 coup, and some additional ones from the 1972 coup. I'm sure its capacity was greater, but the number of prisoners stayed about the same. I think that is important, since saying it had a 50% death rate without telling readers there were only about 60 prisoners there gives the impression of a veritable Auschwitz.

I didn't see 50% death rate. All I know is that there were 35 dead among the declared disappeared. Certificates of death of 34 were released a few years ago except 1. If 50% is correct that would mean that during 18 years only around 70 people were detained there which little.  ^{Wiki me up™}

Arre 21:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it is little. But that is because the same people were held there from 1970/72 until 1991. They filled out the cells left empty by the dead by other high-profile prisoners, like Bourequat (who came there in 1980 or something, I think). There were never much more than the original 58 people, maybe 60-65 or 70. So 35 dead means 50% death rate. And I think both those facts are important, so readers do not think this was something that went on on a huge scale, and also so they grasp the extreme conditions. Anyway, I now found a link for it. Arre 01:04, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Not to distrust your info but it is better to wait until you verify it in the book. Cheers -- Svest 01:12, 20 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

I mean I found an Internet source. Check the page. Arre 01:14, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Lol! Sorry again. You are right. -- Svest 01:16, 20 December 2005 (UTC)  ^{Wiki me up™}

Hehe. I added just three more links: the 50%-died claim you can find again in one of the book summaries I just added. I think I'm done with this page now, but I have to say it turned out pretty good. Nice working with you :-) Arre 01:26, 20 December 2005 (UTC)