Talk:Taylor University

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is part of WikiProject Indiana, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Indiana, in an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Indiana on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Indiana Portal
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
High This article has been rated as high-importance on the importance scale.

Article Grading:
The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
A mortarboard This article is part of WikiProject Universities, an attempt to standardise coverage of universities and colleges. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this notice, or visit the project page, where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.

Contents

[edit] Weasel Words

I keep saying it, and they keep getting in here. This article needs to be unbiased and statements should be cited.

Stuff like:

"However, many still feel it is a valuable resource that should remain an integral aspect of the institution."

and

"Debate has raged on campus as to whether or not there should be mandatory attendance."

isn't encyclopedic unless you put an externally cited survey of people who feel it is a valuable resource, or an article about said debate or something.

Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words

-- Brokenfrog 06:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taylor University Fort Wayne

I believe a separate article should be made for Taylor University Fort Wayne. There is precedence for this, note the IUPUI article. It just seems like trying to define the relationship between the two campuses is too difficult to do clearly in one article. Additionally, trying to add Taylor University Fort Wayne to this article tends to limit the attention given to that campus. What does anyone else think?--Quinilin 02:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

It isn't going to go over well with deletionists unless you get a lot more content for both pages. Brokenfrog 06:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What's next?

Alright, now that the article is a bit more encyclopedic, it could be built up a bit. I think some more pictures of the campus and buildings would be good. Also I am going to try to add into the descriptions of the campus. I figure that at least some prospective students are going to be looking at these pages, so maybe we need to get them looking good? Any other suggestions?Brokenfrog 21:00, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I helped on the history section, including references. Optikos 18:03, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Brokenfrog

I agree that there should be a separate article about Taylor University Fort Wayne campus. It used to be Fort Wayne Bible College, was then Summit College (I think), and then Taylor University Fort Wayne. That way it would have its proper status and it would be more clear for everyone. Can someone do that for us? --Andyrowell94 18:00, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Weasel Words/NPOV

I've done some major cleanup to remove NPOV and weasel words, and to make the language more straightforward. I would like to suggest that, with these edits, we remove the advertisement and weasel word tags. Quinilin 00:07, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

If the article is objective, go ahead and remove them. Brokenfrog 08:21, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I edited the page a bit this morning, I hope I didn't step on your toes too much. Feel free to revert it!Brokenfrog 09:24, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

No problems here. Quinilin 18:32, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alumni

Can anyone verify the "General Nelson Miles, 1839-1925 (defeated the Apache warrior Geronimo in 1886)" reference? I have been unable to find a source verifying Nelson Miles was an alumnus or student at Taylor University. Quinilin 03:13, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I ran into the same problem. The reference has been in the article since it was created 2 years ago, by an anon user. I would reccomend we delete the reference. Brokenfrog 08:19, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

With Google, the only references I can find are mirrors of Wikipedia. Deleting it was a good idea. Jerickson314 04:44, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I definitely think that the Taylor University People page should be moved over to the Taylor University page. Can someone do it for us? --Andyrowell94 17:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

How is there not an article on Samuel Morris on Wikipedia? I don't have the information to start it but it should be there.The preceding comment was left by 131.107.0.72 on August 9, 2006 at 15:53. Please sign your posts with four tildes. (You can do it by clicking on them to the right of "Sign your name:" below the editing textarea)

The article on Samuel Kaboo Morris was created last November, and it's been through 21 edits, but it's still one of the *emptiest* articles I've ever seen. "If it is to be, it is up to thee". ClairSamoht 00:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd imagine the TU library has some good stuff on this. I'll be back there in september, and I'll expand a bit then.Brokenfrog 04:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 192.195.234.26

FYI, 192.195.234.26 is our HTTP proxy here at Taylor. Edits from anyone within Taylor's network will be from this IP address. The same address may include edits from different individuals at different times.

--It doesn't seem like an advertisement to me. Are we still debating this? Can we take down the notice at the top of the article yet?

--Sources are not listed for much of article content. Reads like an advert throughout, but especially intro. "some have proffered Taylor as "the Princeton."" NEEDS a source. Remember, folks, this is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not original research. I would do more edits, but for some reason, they keep getting vandalized by anon users (mostly from Taylor addresses), so screw you if you want our school to have a shitty wikipedia entry. Sorry, but this kind of crap really pisses me off.

This page may also need protection against anon editing, as there have been a significant number of problems, especially from 192.195.234.26, which seems to be a proxy, and thus should be blocked by Wikipedia anyway. See: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:Blocking_policy for more info.

--192.195.234.26 is msproxy.taylor.edu. It appears Wikipedia's policy only addresses open or anonymous proxies. However, 192.195.234.26 is only functional from on Taylor's campus, and in fact it is how Taylor students are supposed to access the web. Outgoing connections on port 80 are otherwise blocked. It would not be in the spirit of the policy to block this kind of proxy in general. However, other blocking policies with regards to frequent vandalism may apply.

This proxy was formerly (as of summer 2005) accessable from outside the campus. I checked when I was home for break, and the problem seems fixed. Brokenfrog 08:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Finally, someone should tell Jeff Cramer to stop teaching kids to vandalize wikipedia in his classes. For someone who is such a copyright fan, he should think about treating others' work more respectfully. Brokenfrog 01:48, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

--Don't slander the professor for what the students do. I haven't taken COS104 with Cramer (don't have to as a CS major), but I do know him personally and doubt he would condone vandalism. Enough with the personal comments; they are not appropriate for Wikipedia.

--Hey, here's the article he did in class if you doubt me: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=&page=Jay_Kesler Article was speedly deleted on Oct. 11 2005!

That said, Cramer is a great Prof, and I doubt he realised just how stupid college students can act. He def. did not mean to cause the trouble, and I shouldn't blame him for what students did with the knowlege he gave them. Brokenfrog 08:28, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I still think that if we keep getting adverts for open houses tossed in, the admins should block the address. Making an account or using TOR isn't that hard (that said, I understand policy). Brokenfrog 04:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taylor Chapel UMC not a university spinoff

I don't believe this section belongs in this article. While it attempts to clarify that Taylor and Taylor Chapel are separate entities, that is done via the section header and the rest is just a mini article about Taylor Chapel UMC.

Perhaps it should be a separate article? Or do we just delete it? --Quinilin 15:12, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

"That is done via the section header". Is it? I can't see any mention in the headers at all of a church with the same name which first appeared at the time that Taylor skipped town.

As far as that goes, the headers on this article don't seem to trustworthy. The main header for the article says that Taylor is interdenominational, but the history-at-a-glance infobox says it was Methodist-affiliated, showing no date that the affiliation ended, and the text refers to Asbury College as "another Methodist-affiliated college".

There have been two stories going around for decades that the church is connected somehow with the university. One has it that the congregation started as a group that met in the campus chapel and built a new church when the school left town, and the other is that a newly-formed congregation was looking for a place to meet and glommed onto the chapel that Taylor abandoned when they skedaddled.

It didn't matter much as long as Taylor was in Upland. Since they've moved back into Fort Wayne, though, there are understandably more questions about why the Taylor Chapel isn't on the Taylor campus.

But I suppose you have a point. The LAST thing an encyclopedia should do is make it easy to find answers to common questions, right? ClairSamoht 02:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I suggest deleting it since it has nothing to do with Taylor (it says so itself). A link to a stub about Taylor Chapel UMC might be appropriate, but this section really isn't relevant to Taylor University. --Stupidjunkru 07:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with this last comment by stupidjunkru. I have shortened the information about Taylor Chapel UMC even though I think it should probably be moved to its own article. --Andyrowell94 17:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem, ClairSamoht, is that the section on Taylor Chapel UMC as written mentioned NONE of what you said -- giving no indication whatsoever of any affiliation between Taylor and Taylor Chapel UMC. It just appears to be stuck in the article about Taylor University. If it had gone into some of what you say here, then I could understand why it was mentioned.

Then again, since this is an encyclopedia, you would want to have references for such information and not just stories that have been going around for decades.

Regarding the methodist affiliation. That information, to my knowledge, is accurate. Taylor University is inter-denominational now and was Methodist-affiliated then. But, you have a point about documenting when official affiliation dropped. Perhaps someone can find and reference that information. --Quinilin 11:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the section. If that information needs to exist, it would be more appropriately placed in an article on Taylor Chapel UMC. --Quinilin 03:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging list of TU people with main

I'm against, I think it will distract from the article. Besides, it leaves room for expansion. Brokenfrog 06:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I just wish we'd decide on something. It keeps going back and forth. In general I probably agree with Brokenfrog since I think this article is already too convoluted anyway -- thus my earlier suggestion to split TUFW out on its own. --Quinilin 11:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm adding to TU people now, and if we add to TUFW, we might have enough to justify another page. Brokenfrog 04:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Hell, that notice has been up for quite a while with no comments on it but us two. It's going. Brokenfrog 05:08, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fatal Crash Involving Taylor University Students and Employees

I'm surprised there isn't a mention of the fatal crash that killed several TU students. It made national (if not worldwide news), so I figured it would be here... http://www.taylor.edu/community/news/05_06/2006_04_26_accident.shtml —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.162.141.91 (talk) 03:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

Sure, I'd add a "recent events" section to the article after the history section. You could include that. I might get around to it someday if someone else doesn't...Brokenfrog 02:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I have no life, so I went ahead and did it. Feel free to add anything else useful to it! Brokenfrog 02:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Samuel Kaboo Morris

I created a stub for Samuel Kaboo Morris. Please feel free to expand it. CyberAnth 03:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Beyond the Mind

Quinlan, there is a new motto this year, "beyond the mind". They put it everywhere, and if you ask me, it sounds pretty psychedelic, but whatever...Brokenfrog 02:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Brokenfrog -- As I stated in my edit, "Beyond the Mind" is not the University's motto, it's a marketing tagline/slogan. View a copy of the University seal somewhere -- graduation towel? -- to see the motto. Quinilin 01:29, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Added a reference I found on the Taylor Web site. Quinilin 01:44, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Campus Facilities

The discussion of dorms should be corrected in more detail than the deletion made this evening. It now says there are eight, but only lists seven. I'm not a student anymore, so I'm not sure what they're calling the old health center, but it's not mentioned at all. This should be pretty easy for someone on campus to clean up.--Grinik 03:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I got it for you.

--brokenfrog

[edit] Merge

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was merge into TAYLOR UNIVERSITY. -- Aepoutre 15:18, 7 August 2007 (UTC) A merge has been proposed, and I have set up the merge tags. --BsayUSD [Talk] [contribs] 17:49, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Merge I foolishly just started moving information without doing this through the proper channels, for which I apologise profusely! Thanks, User:Bsayusd, for this. My argument is that having an article solely devoted to people associated with Taylor University isn't anything one would ever find in an encyclopedia. If anything (and I see this as a stretch but kept a similar list for own alma mater "just because"), there might be a list of notable people in the university's article. I'd like to see this information (and then it can be determined what really is/isn't notable) moved to the university page. On another note, when looking at subcategories of christian colleges &c., having random lists of alumni put in that category just muddies the waters when trying to do research. Aepoutre 18:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
The only links that direct to the list page are my talk page and the TU page. Again, I say there's nothing encyclopedic about a "list of people associated with <insert college here> page. Just put it on the main page. Besides, there are so many redlinks on that page that it makes me doubt its importance anyway. "Dan Wolgemuth, Current President of Youth for Christ" is not the guy on YFC's Webpage, someone else is -- if it's YFC USA, then specify it. One of the people is referenced, why no others? The whole faculty list (again, should be on the main page, and faculty change so it's pretty time-sensitive and not sensitive to the historicity of the entire institution) is of wiki articles created by the list's creator, User:Brokenfrog. It's very unencyclopedic, unacademic, and poorly sourced. I like TU's history (some original faculty from my alma mater taught there) but this wasn't thought out. If no one objects soon, I'll probably move it myself. I've read the earlier discussion above on this same talk page and it didn't seem to have a very strong argument for the list page's existence. Aepoutre 17:49, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Before I do anything, I posted this on the Wikiproject for Universities talk page under List Question --

I'm fairly new to this, so anyone with more Wikipedia experience feel free to speak up. If the point of Wikipedia is to be encyclopedic on some way, why are there list of alumni separate from the college/university articles? I suppose part of the question is: what is the purpose of these lists? Isn't that the point of our standardised Notable persons section? Do people really just say "hey I want to know every single person with or without a wikipedia article who went to such and such a university"? I feel that having a category of alumni makes sense, but not a list page. Thus, if you want to see a list, just go to the category. And those who truly are notable will be in the notables section of the university page. Furthermore, if someone wants to know if so and so went to said college/university, they should likely see that person on that university's page, or that university on that person's page, or some connexion via a category. It seems useless and superfluous (to me) to have these list articles. If it is determined to be a problem as I see it, it seems to be a rather large one, and would really be a big part of the project to clean up pages. Aepoutre 18:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)Aepoutre 18:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Merge Yea, this merge needs to happen. The list of people is not something that is found in encyclopedias. --BsayUSD [Talk] [contribs] 19:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Here's the issue though, as this person raises a good point. Perhaps you want to get in on the discussion? The problem is that when you look at pages of universities that have a long history (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc) and/or major athletics or arts programs in addition to academic research (University of Michigan, Stanford, Duke University, etc.) it is difficult to strike a balance. Do you list all the MVPs of baseball, basketball, and football but not Olympians? Senators and Presidents but not Governors and Congressmen? Nobel Laureates but not Fields Medalists? Pulitzer Prizes but not Tony Awards? What about trade-offs between these groups? There is no standard for these sections. The point is that it is difficult enough to come up with a definitive line of notability for inclusion in the lists themselves, to say nothing of writing a concise section about the "notables" of an article as some lists would easily extend into the dozens. Every university has a different history, strengths, etc and it is far better to keep a separate list of these alumni than subjecting the main article to edit wars over who is or is not notable enough to 1. warrant inclusion on Wikipedia and 2. warrant inclusion on the main college/university page. Madcoverboy 18:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. You make a very good point (I went to a very small school). I would say that this problem of very long lists could solved by, say, an alumni category, which would automatically list all the wiki articles about those who are alumni of the school. Yet not everyone will have a wiki article, and it would be far too complex to distinguish just those without as featured on the main page while just adding the category to those with. I suppose that could be done, but that'd be even more complex than the implications of my first question. Agreed? Thanks again! Aepoutre 19:07, 27 June 2007 (UTC) Aepoutre 19:09, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Yea, small universities on wiki seem to all have an inline notable alumni section. Mine does. If the List of Taylor University People page stays, then it needs to be renamed because that title is not very encyclopedic. That said, I think a merger is best. --BsayUSD [Talk] [contribs] 19:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge and should not have been named as it was. However, my larger concern is that most of the people on the list appear to not meet the notability guidelines, and I've prodded a bunch of them for deletion. I've also trimmed the list to remove redlinks, people with no articles whatsoever, and no assertion of notability. After the end of all of this, there may be perhaps six people who should be merged. WLU 13:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge. Would anyone actually search for such an article? I think most people (like me) expect such a list to be on the university page.--JEF 16:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I'll go ahead and do the merge unless we have someone more familiar with doing this stuff than I. Aepoutre 15:05, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


[edit] Public Records Controversy

Is the public records controversy a necessary section? I saw someone removed it then replaced it. Is it even worthwhile to have it in the entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.102.151.209 (talk) 22:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Every campus has various internal disputes and controversies each year (I used to work for Columbia Bible College & Seminary, and they just got over a disrespectful public hashing of their previous president by various students on the Internet). Why is this bit about the student wanting TU's on-campus crime records worthy of inclusion? Jack Brooks (talk) 03:08, 8 April 2008 (UTC)