Wikipedia talk:Taxobox usage

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[edit] Fossil Range charts?

What's the story with the fossil range charts being added, as in Lizard and Therizinosaurus? I suppose it's a good idea, though it makes the boxes that much more cluttered... but at present, the diagram does not appear to correspond with the listed range, at least in my browser (Safari). For example, the green range highlight is under Paleogene for Therizinosaurus when it should be Cretaceous. Lizard range is Jurassic to recent, but the highlight only extends into the early part of the Cretaceous. Dinoguy2 00:04, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Agh. I'd tested it in Firefox and IE, and had assumed that Safari would follow suit - evidently it's being problematic as usual. Grr! Just when I thought I had a day off...
My rationale behind producing it is that "late Permian" doesn't mean anything to the average layman, and providing a timeline brings the fossil range into context for the vast majority of our readership without forcing them to click on links to pages which often don't help that much anyway... Verisimilus T 09:03, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I like the idea (though I missed the implementation for some reason). But indeed, squeezing everything from Precambrian to Holocene into 250 or so pixels is wellnigh impossible... Dysmorodrepanis 10:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
For those of us who missed it, can we see a screenshot? I've thought about doing something like it before too, but compressing hundreds of thousands of years into just hundreds pixels is quite a challenge. —Pengo 13:10, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Example Taxobox
Fossil range:
 
Triassic - Cretaceous

Scientific classification
Kingdom: incertae sedis
Genus: Rangea
Species: Rangea fossilii
I just moved it to Template:Fossil range/Sandbox for present. See example on the right. Verisimilus T 14:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Synonyms list

Is there any preferred way how to list synonyms? I.e., alphabetically or by date of publication? I have found myself doing either, and found each approach to be equally advantageous and disadvantageous. Depending on the specific taxon, either may be easier to maintain. Usually, an alphabetic list will be easier to read and maintain. But e.g. in Falcon, there have been so many preoccupied names and names that were later "fixed" believing they were preoccupied (but weren't) that there is no getting around a chronological listing. Dysmorodrepanis 10:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marshall, Texas FAR

Marshall, Texas has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Okiefromoklatalk 17:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New rank needed

I am currently working on the Lepidopterans, whose taxonomy presents a rank "series" between superfamily and family. It is not the same-named "series" in the botanical sense of the term, but a distinct and different rank. We need to have it added to the taxobox template... For the time being, I am using the variable "series" in my lepidopteran taxobox (knowing that the taxob appears at the wrong place) and waiting for something better. Oeropium 23:27, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Viruses

It might be helpful to have a complete example of a Virus taxobox on the usage page. After all, they are quite different from plant and animal boxes. Rl (talk) 11:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] IUCN Red List status

An IUCN representative contacted me, asking if I could make a minor change to Template:Taxobox so that "(IUCN Red List)" is shown instead of "(IUCN)" when conservation data comes from the IUCN Red List. In order to keep discussion together, please leave any comments at Template talk:Taxobox#IUCN Red List status. Thanks, – Quadell (talk) (random) 13:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another color for animal-taxobox?

I almost exclusively work on animals (mammals) here and I don´t like this ugly pink box very much. I am always happy when I go back to the german wiki . How do you like this nice green-brown-grey box down here for example:-)

Asian Golden Cat

Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Felidae
Genus: Catopuma
Species: C. temminckii
Binomial name
Catopuma temminckii
(Vigors & Horsfield, 1827)

I dont think, it would collide with any other taxobox color.--Altaileopard (talk) 16:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Animalia #D3D3A4
Archaeplastida #90EE90 (lightgreen)
Fungi #ADD8E6 (lightblue)
Chromalveolata #ADFF2F (greenyellow)
Rhizaria #E6E6FA (lavender)
Excavata #F0E68C (khaki)
Amoebozoa #FFC8A0
Bacteria #D3D3D3
Archaea #F3E0E0
Viruses #EE82EE
incertae sedis #FAF0E6
I'm fine with this change. - UtherSRG (talk) 21:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I've never liked the pink. That said, there are a ton of articles that would either need to be changed to this color or updated to display the color automatically. I think there are still a lot out there that are pink because they say "taxobox color = pink" instead of being pink due to the kingdom. --Aranae (talk) 22:21, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
It's easy to remove all these unnecessary parameters with a bot. I have a bot lying around that could do this, and I have code that parses taxoboxes; I could do this, if you want this. Best would be to first convert all taxoboxes, and then change the code in the template. That would switch the colours in all taxoboxes at once. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 22:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Hadn't given it much thought but, yes, I think I'd prefer the grey-green colour too.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, good! Thank you all. I think it would be best to use the bot from Eugene van der Pijll. Probably we also should ask some other users, which work a lot on animals, what they think about a new color. --Altaileopard (talk) 16:32, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
In my view, pink is a very intuitive colour for animals, just as green is for plants. I think that the benefits of being able to tell the classification at a glance outweigh aesthetic considerations. The colour scheme should be as logical as possible (and preferably change as rarely as possible so people don't have to relearn it) to give it any value. Otherwise we may as well just set one standard colour for all taxoboxes. I do agree, however, that the current shade of pink is a bit putrid: maybe someone could suggest a more pleasant shade of pink? Verisimilus T 17:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC) P.S. I've posted a note of this discussion on WP:TOL; it might be worth advertising it elsewhere too?
Hmm, why do you think that Pink is intuitive for animals? I think there are more brown animals than pink animals on this earth and aesthetic considerations weigh quite a lot, if you look at something every day! I think the relearn process should not be too difficult.... and you can have a look at the taxobox, if you are not shure if a creature is an animal or not:-) Thanks for posting it on TOL.--Altaileopard (talk) 21:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Quick note that I also like/support the change to the "green-brown-grey" colour too. I don't think the colour has to "say" animal, just as we don't use a different font or shape of taxobox or anything else to "say" it's an animal taxobox. The colour will become a symbol by itself. —Pengo 23:29, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
What Pengo said. Even if we don't do this though, it would be good to have a bot remove color overrides from taxoboxes as they're a bit of a vandal magnet. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 03:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
IMHO the new colour is just a bit too close to the one used for incertae sedis. As animal taxoboxes are the most frequent in wikipedia (about 51,000 of them...), and i.s. taxoboxes are so very rare, this will be confusing for people landing at a i.s. article. Better change that one as well. Perhaps to pink?
Altaileopard, pink (or any shade of red, extually) is a very intuitive colour for animals. Have you ever tried to cut one open? Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 18:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
What do you want me to open? A snail, a beatle or a sea cucumber? Actually when I think of a vertebrate, I do not think about an open one at first.
joking apart.. I think there are not so much incertae sedis, we can change this color. We can also search another color for the animals and I would be also fine with one color for all taxoboxes. But I would love to have a nicer color than this pink.--Altaileopard (talk) 19:16, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I have asked for bot approval for this task: Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Eubot 5. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 17:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very much.--Altaileopard (talk) 16:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Just going to add my support for changing the animal taxobox colour, I like the one used above. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
One question: I know that originally some considerable work was done to make sure that the various box colours were separable by those with all forms of colour-blindness. Will they still be able to distinguish the new colour from all of the others? MeegsC | Talk 21:17, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Update -- The bot run is done; the color parameter has been removed from almost all animal articles, and the taxobox color may be changed now. (I will do another bot run after the next database dump, to catch all articles created in the last 2 months.) Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 10:21, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Well done, thanks a lot! When I go through this talk, it seems to me, that no one is really against the new color and many like it. I don´t know how to check this thing with the color-blinds, but I think it would not be a very big problem, as the taxonomy is written in the box, too. --Altaileopard (talk) 07:09, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Color-blindness isn't really an issue—even some of the existing colors may well be more difficult to distinguish for some people with color-blindness, but the Kingdom name is there for backup. The issue instead is color contrast; if the foreground and background color intensities aren't enough different, some users won't be able to read the text at all. The proposed new color passes in that regard.--Curtis Clark (talk) 13:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Discussion seems to have stopped, so to rekindle the interest in this issue, I've just pulled the switch... Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 16:18, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I am deuteranomalous and cannot distinguish the new animal color from the incertae sedis' color. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 17:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I love the change, but as someone who is color-blind, I see virtually no difference between incertae sedis and Animalia now. I don't consider it a major issue, since the text stands out, but I thought I should mention it since it was mentioned in earlier discussion above. Justin chat 17:32, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
As an aside, when making color changes [1] can help color determinations for us colorblind folk. Justin chat 17:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I think the colors should at least not be too alike. If you are weak in green/yellow hues as I am, animals and incertae sedis are really all but identical. Perhaps change incertae sedis to WhiteSmoke (F5 F5 F5) or Linen (FA F0 E6) - distinct colors, and also good because they are almost but not quite white, with an indiscriminate hue that "can be anything". Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 17:38, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Note that this problem is almost non-existent: there are 14 articles in wikipedia that have regnum incertae sedis: Pteridinium, Arkarua, Mawsonites, Charniodiscus, Yorgia, Hiemalora, Aspidella, Parvancorina, Bradgatia, Nimbia, Chondroplon, Swartpuntia, Trilobozoa, Picobiliphyte. I'll list some possible colors for these articles below (please add more options, if you have them). I suggest to wait a week to see if people like the new colour for the animal boxes, and to change the incertae sedis boxes when we're sure about that. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 18:38, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and there are another 24 articles that have their colour hardcoded to the current i.s. colour (including e.g. Eukaryote and Opisthokont). I'll change those taxoboxes so that they will be handled automatically. Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 18:43, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
pink Formerly used for Animalia
whitesmoke Proposed by User:Dysmorodrepanis
linen Proposed by User:Dysmorodrepanis
Whitesmoke and linen both have too little contrast with the background; they are barely distinguishable from no colour at all, which is aesthetically unpleasing. And we've just managed to get rid of the "horrible pink colour"... let's not bring it back already!
We do need to change the IS colour - but I think we need to find a better solution.
Also, worth nothing that the last time I looked, VISCHECK website linked to above only works on images, not on hard-coded #XXXXXX values.
Verisimilus T 09:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


Any ideas why Dinosaur is still pink? I see it as such on two computers, have refreshed the cache, and my PC is set up to delete cache and browsing history after a session anyway. It is linked to [[Animal]]ia and has no embedded color element. J. Spencer (talk) 13:06, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

It was pink for me as well, so it was probably an internal wikipedia cache problem. If you see another pink one, just do a null edit (click "edit", and save without changing anything), and it will be fixed. Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 17:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Fixed now. J. Spencer (talk) 18:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, Eugene van der Pijll!!!! The articles are looking much better now and it is more fun to upgrade an article in style and text. For I.s. I would prefer the whitesmoke as it appears somewhat undetermined to me --Altaileopard (talk) 17:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I am not in favour of this change. My first impression was that someone had modified the colour for a dragon stub I was fixing. The grey-green is to close to ... grey and green. This could be a problem when viewed alone in the article. I think it is generally editors that have to look at them 'all day', but if the colourcan 'say' animal then that is a bonus. The pinkish colour was slightly off, certainly in the murky palette above, but it is used overwhemingly in isolation. I agree with the view that a reddish hue suggests animal, just as green suggests plant, that is why I became used to seeing it. I hope to see further discussion on this; perhaps discussion of the change can be directed here, assuming anyone else wants to comment. cygnis insignis 03:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, to me, booger just doesn't suggest animal. Werothegreat (talk) 02:22, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, if you don´t like this colour but I think almost everything is nicer and perhaps even more typical for animals than the old pink. @cygnis insignis: I saw, that you work a lot on reptiles. Actually the green element seems perfect for this group in my view......?--Altaileopard (talk) 20:40, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
I tend to do more plants, but it is appropriate for that group. I thought someone had modified the colour at a reptile page to their personal preference. I'll use the bikeshed anyway. cygnis insignis 10:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I find the new incertae sedis colour difficult to distinguish from the Archea and Rhizaria colours on my monitor... perhaps the new hue is not ideal? Verisimilus T 21:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
One of my reasons for finally changing that colour is to restart the discussion; I'm happy to see that it worked :-)
If you cannot see the difference between the Rhizaria and the incertae sedis colours, you may want to adjust the brightness of your monitor; they are not at all similar IMHO. But I agree about the Archaea. This is less of a problem than the old incertae sedis colour. The average visitor will not have visited Archaea articles frequently enough to be used to that colour, but there are so many animals that he will be conditioned to see that colour as animals; including the very similar old i.s. colour. But yeah, we need a new colour for incertae sedis. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 21:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
E0D0B0 Previous incertae sedis colour
linen Current incertae sedis colour
F3E0E0 Archaea colour, for comparison
pink Formerly used for Animalia, now free to be re-used?
whitesmoke Proposed by User:Dysmorodrepanis
chartreuse Perhaps this yellow colour?
lemon Or this one?

[edit] Teletaxo

Orca
Transient Orcas near Unimak Island, eastern Aleutian Islands, Alaska
Transient Orcas near Unimak Island, eastern Aleutian Islands, Alaska
Size comparison against an average human
Size comparison against an average human
Conservation status
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Cetacea
Suborder: Odontoceti
Family: Delphinidae
Genus: Orcinus
Species: O. orca
Diversity
Does this need to be collapsible?
Binomial name
Orcinus orca
Linnaeus, 1758



Range
Orca range (in blue)
Orca range (in blue)
Subdivisions

none

Synonyms

Killer whale


I tried making a telescoping taxobox once (with hide/show bits) and failed, Thanyakij, however, has succeeded, and it's being used on Thai Wikipedia. I think it's cool. I've copied the message from my talk page (which includes links to examples):

Hello Pengo, I'm Thanyakij (or Aqua) from Thai Wikipedia. I know that you are making the TeleTaxo. I'm just complete the new Intelli-TeleTaxo which can change the color follow the regnum and collapse un-important data so you can copy and change something to suit different conditions in En-Wiki's work. for a good example see เสือ and หลาวชะโอนทุ่ง. For more information, you can contact me at my user talk page. Enjoy your new taxobox. -- aIqCuEa 04:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

How about this on English Wikipedia? —Pengo 10:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Funny, I'd just been thinking about doing something similar myself. It shouldn't be difficult; I'll knock up a prototype when I get the chance. Verisimilus T 14:14, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
And here it is. I've added a couple of parameters so that everything is represented.
The presence of the "[hide]" thingy makes the titles off centre. There's not much that can be done about this without alienating users with smaller monitors, but I don't see that it should be a problem. Verisimilus T 16:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Whoops, there are still a couple of issues with the code. Removed for a moment. Verisimilus T 17:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC) Now repaired (a bit). There will still be a couple of issues to resolve if this is taken forwards. Verisimilus T 17:23, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
It's nice and certainly must have taken you quite a bit of effort, but is there really a need for this? What problem is this addressing? Are there really that many taxoboxes out there that are too long that they require hide/show links? Personally, my initial reaction is that the hide/show links detract from the aesthetic of the taxobox. But I'm sure I could be swayed if an argument for functionality is presented. And I'm just curious, do any other infoboxes on the English Wikipedia do this? Cheers, Rkitko (talk) 16:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it is nice! I don´t know if there is really need for this feature, but I think it is definitely not a disatvantage.--Altaileopard (talk) 09:55, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
It could incorporate default settings, such as "state=auto, collapsed, expanded". Shorter articles could used a collapsed version, while longer articles could use an expanded version. If a taxbox has, say, more than 3 or 4 sections, the main sections (status,classification) can default to expanded while the secondary sections (diversity,synonyms) can default to collapsed. --Old Hoss (talk) 19:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] {{{binomial}}}

Doing that reminded me - is there a point to the separate {{{binomial}}} parameter? What information does it contain that isn't already covered by {{{genus}}}, {{{species}}} and {{{species_authority}}}? Verisimilus T 16:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

It is a bit redundant, but I prefer the binomial parameter. Some editors choose to not include the species parameter, so doing away with it might disrupt those taxoboxes (I'm sure that could be fixed by a bot, though). I think it adds something to boxes where infrageneric ranks are included, separating the genus from its abbreviation in the species parameter (e.g. Utricularia dichotoma). In that situation, it reconnects the genus name with the abbreviation (e.g. U. dichotoma). Just my two cents. --Rkitko (talk) 17:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem of taxoboxes that omit the species parameter could be overcome - it would be trivial for a bot to enumerate the articles with a binomial parameter but no species parameter, and possibly even to fix them automatically. As far as I'm aware, the binomial parameter is indeed redundant, and I support the proposal to abandon it.

But if we're going to tackle this, we should be handling the "trinomial" argument too, since these are intrinsically related. As usual, the devil's in the details. :-( The required functionality would appear to be something like:

  • if there is no species parameter, don't present anything (assuming Rkitko's issue above is sorted out);
  • if there is a species parameter, but not a subspecies, variety or forma parameter, present a binomial box of the form Genus species Authority;
  • if the taxon is an animal, and there is an infraspecific rank parameter, present a trinomial box of the form Genus species subspecies Authority
  • if the taxon is a plant,
    • if there is a forma parameter,
        • if the forma parameter is identical to the species parameter (i.e. an autonym), present a trinomial box of the form Genus species Authority f. forma;
        • if the forma parameter is not the same as species parameter, present a trinomial box of the form Genus species f. forma Authority;
    • else if there is a variety parameter,
        • if the variety parameter is identical to the species parameter (i.e. an autonym), present a trinomial box of the form Genus species Authority var. variety;
        • if the variety parameter is not the same as species parameter, present a trinomial box of the form Genus species var. variety Authority;
    • else if there is a subspecies parameter,Authority
        • if the subspecies parameter is identical to the species parameter (i.e. an autonym), present a trinomial box of the form Genus species Authority subsp. subspecies;
        • if the subspecies parameter is not the same as species parameter, present a trinomial box of the form Genus species subsp. subspecies Authority;

With plants, it is possible to publish a variety of a subspecies, in which case it is legitimate to write either "Genus species subsp. subspecies var. variety" or just "Genus species var. variety". I can't see any objection to the taxobox code mandating the shorter form.

I don't know what the requirements would be for other kingdoms - I think fungi and algae use the botanical code?

If this gets sorted out, there may be a case for revisiting Verisimilus' earlier proposal to automate some of the italicising. Hesperian 23:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Fungi and algae do indeed use the botanical code, but as far as I know, they are neglected enough not to have been blessed with subspecies, varieties and so forth... Verisimilus T 00:08, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I've created the required code at Template:Taxobox binomial. The results of testing can be found in my sandbox. This template provides the output of the logic specified above.
To put it into operation, the following steps need to be taken:
Replace this code:
{{#if:{{{binomial|}}}|
! [[Binomial nomenclature|Binomial name]]
{{!}}- style="text-align:center;"
{{!}} '''<span class="binomial">{{{binomial}}}</span>'''<br /><small>{{{binomial_authority|}}}</small>}}
|- style="background:{{{color|{{{colour|#{{Taxobox colour|{{{regnum|{{{virus_group|{{{unranked_phylum|{{{phylum}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}};"
{{#if:{{{trinomial|}}}|
! [[Trinomial nomenclature|Trinomial name]]
{{!}}- style="text-align:center;"
{{!}} '''{{{trinomial}}}'''<br /><small>{{{trinomial_authority|}}}</small>}}
|- style="background:{{{color|{{{colour|#{{Taxobox colour|{{{regnum|{{{virus_group|{{{unranked_phylum|{{{phylum}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}};"
With:
{{taxobox binomial|R={{lc:{{{regnum|}}}}}|G={{ucfirst:{{lc:{{{genus|}}}}}}}|sp={{lc:{{{species|}}}}}|f={{lc:{{{forma|}}}}}|var={{lc:{{{variety|}}}}}|ssp={{lc:{{{subspecies|}}}}}}}
Further amend the Taxobox so that the specific name is not shown on its own line NB this is problematic - consequences need considering and a workaround creating
Using a bot, edit existing taxoboxes so that:
  1. Existing "binomial" and "trinomial" names are removed, with forma, variety, or subspecies information moved to the appropriate parameters
  2. Existing "species" parameters have leading "X." removed where initial letter of Genus has been included.
This leaves the following issues:
  1. The microformat tags may need amending; I'm not sure about the syntax but I'm sure the relevant people will be able to amend this to their needs with ease.
  2. What is the most appropriate parameter for specifying the "authority"?
  3. Integration with the existing Taxobox tabular format is not fully tested.


Comments and thoughts welcome; I will respond on my return in ~ a week. Verisimilus T 23:17, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I've reviewed this, and the code seems fine to me, for what it is trying to do; it doesn't solve the whole problem yet though.
I may have misunderstood your original proposal. I thought that you were saying that the binomial parameter was redundant because we could code the taxobox to figure out its use for us. I really love the idea of passing the taxobox data rather than marked-up text, and having the taxobox "know" about both the rules of nomenclature and our stylistic conventions, and mark it all up correctly for us. However it now seems that your original proposal was that the binomial field, as displayed, is redundant to the species field; this is true, but I'm not sure whether it should be removed or not. It probably needs to be talked about some more. Fortunately, the issue of whether to remove the species field is a side-issue now. There's enough here to digest, so we might as well swallow it before taking a mouthful of the field redundancy issue.
I'm sure I've seen some articles with manuscript names. Unpublished species generally aren't notable, so don't usually have articles, but sometimes the IUCN jumps the gun and adds a species to a threatened list before it has been formally published, and a few such species articles have turned up here. We need to handle that, probably by including code that kills off the "guessed" binomial/trinomial box, and replaces it with a Manuscript name box.
I think you have to continue to accept genus_authority, species_authority, variety_authority, etc, and figure out which one should be used in the binomial/trinomial box. This is necessary because some monotypic taxon taxoboxes display multiple authorities (e.g. Emblingia); and to include a separate authority argument would only be re-introducing the redundancy you've worked so hard to remove. It is pretty easy to fix: the functionality I laid out above should be changed to, e.g.
  • if the variety parameter is identical to the species parameter (i.e. an autonym), present a trinomial box of the form Genus species Variety_authority var. variety;
Hesperian 00:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
The other difficulty is how to handle taxoboxes like the one on Minke Whale. Hesperian 06:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
This looks like incorrect usage. If all species of Minke are being dealt with in one taxobox, the subdivision rank species section should be used, rather than the binomial section. E.g. Apatosaurus (or any dinosaur article, we only create articles down to genus level for most). Dinoguy2 (talk) 07:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree. But that doesn't mean we can just break it. We either have to handle it, or undertake the agonising process of identifying and correcting the misuses (and possibly convincing people to let them stay corrected). Hesperian 07:09, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sorting sections

Albatrosses

Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Aves
Order: Procellariiformes
Family: Diomedeidae
G.R. Gray, 1840
Diversity
4 genera, 21 species
Type species
Diomedea exulans
Linnaeus, 1758

Genera

See list in text

Synonyms

None.

Posted that before... so as we have the nice example here now, I'll post it again... maybe now someone understands what I mean.

Wouldn't be better to have the following sequence of taxobox sections:

  • name
  • image
  • Conservation status
  • Scientific classification
  • Binomial name/Type species (depending on taxon; some may have neither)
  • map
  • Diversity
  • subdivision_ranks
  • synonyms

That would make for smoother and more logical reading I think. Because then, the type species would come immediately after the taxon for which it is the type species, and the diversity would come between the taxon's entire distribution and the taxon's subdivisions - the two taxobox items which really show this "diversity". Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 00:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the reorder is good. - UtherSRG (talk) 01:18, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
To make it a bit more visual (since the example taxobox is out of sight when you go to this section directly), I have adopted the albatross taxobox for this here purpose.
Alternatively, one could do
  • Binomial name/Type species
  • Diversity
  • map
I don't know which is better. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 02:21, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
The order definitely needs a rearrange - this seems an excellent suggestion. Verisimilus T 10:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
The albatross taxobox now suggests that the distribution map is of the type species that is named in the previous line. I definitely think that a map directly after diversity is better. (Also check what happens if type species and map are both given, and diversity is not.) -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 14:01, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Eugène van der Pijll, that the type species should not be so tight at the map. That might be confusing for some people, which are not so involved in taxonomy. As I think the type species is not so important for the common reader, I would place it at the bottom, probably just above synonyms. Moreover I think "Diversity" and "Genera" should be united. --Altaileopard (talk) 16:23, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
The map could be lower (e.g. under "Diversity"), and/or it might simply get a header "Distribution" like any other section in the 'box (it is a separate section).
Placing "Diversity" and "Genera" together I think is not good - the titles in the albatross example suggest that they contain similar information, but actually they don't. "Diversity" gives a total overview about the diversity, whereas "Genera" is simply the "subdivision_ranks" and is the next lower taxonomic rank, which here is genera of course. But it can contain any taxonomic rank, and usually will contain a rank not mentioned in "Diversity" at all (see for example Passerine).
In short, "Diversity" contains information on biodiversity while what here is "Genera" contains information on systematics. (I simply added "Diversity" here for completeness - usually a family would not get such a section, only the higher ranks like classes to orders would)
Type species at the bottom - maybe, but kinda defeats the original proposal, which was to put the relevant information together so that the "train of thought" in reading the box top-to-bottom is not interrupted. Few taxa actually have this (because the correct information is abysmally hard to get... getting easier with more and more of the really old taxonomic works being digitized, but for most invertebrates it is still almost impossible)
While we're at it - linking the type species to the species page maybe? So that people can make sense of the strange names that this section will inevitably contain? Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 14:33, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I like the idea of a rearrange, but I think subdivision_ranks should be at the very bottom. Diversity should be immediately above it as the two are very related. Also, type and synonyms should be next to one another, preferably with synonyms on top. They are also related in the sense that they are a bit for nomenclatural junkies. --Aranae (talk) 15:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bee

Is there any way to list the superfamily Apoidea above the Anthophila in the bee taxobox? Presently, I think the listing implies that Apoidea is included within Anthophila and is as such misleading. I tried playing around with "unranked_something" parameter, but nothing else than unranked_superfamilia works. --Yerpo (talk) 08:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I've moved the Antophila taxon down; it's a bit of a hack. It should be done properly with a parameter "unranked_genus", but that doesn't exist. (Yet.) -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 09:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, that kind of hack, interesting idea. I tweaked it a bit more but it's still not perfect and should be done the way you mentioned. Thanx anyway. --Yerpo (talk) 09:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I've added the unranked_genus parameter, and updated the taxobox at Bee. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 18:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] sensu field?

Is there any benefit of an additional field to specify the circumscription reference like "circumscription_ref=Clarke, 2004[1]" ? (See Uniramia, Bird etc.) Shyamal (talk) 06:47, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Invalid conservation status

Given that Category:Invalid conservation status is robustly populated with fossil organisms that have |status=fossil in their taxobox, would it be feasible (or even desirable, given that many don't have |fossil_range, particularly our numerous ammonite articles) to have a bot go through and remove that element, similar to what Eubot did when taxobox color was linked to kingdom? J. Spencer (talk) 16:43, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

It would certainly be desirable! You can list a request at WP:BOTREQ. Verisimilus T 17:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I will run Eubot to do this, you don't have to request this task. What do you want to replace it with? I don't like the idea of just throwing the information away. Perhaps "fossil = 1"? We can decide afterward how to display that information. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 18:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I hadn't really thought about replacement - would "fossil = 1" or whatever be a hidden/nondisplaying field? J. Spencer (talk) 04:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
At this moment, yes. But we should change the template to show it in some way, in my opinion. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 09:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Would the new "fossil = 1" be an element that should be standard to all fossil organisms, or treated as a placeholder until someone gets around to adding a fossil range? J. Spencer (talk) 02:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
In my opinion, it should be standard. We need a parameter that says "extinct"; fossil_range alone does not imply this. See for example Leporidae. Perhaps "extinct=1" would be better, although it overlaps with the EXtinct status code. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 07:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

You'd be removing from view the only indication that the taxon is a fossil. How about instead, we simply change the taxobox code to tag fossils into Category:Taxoboxes needing a fossil range parameter instead of Category:Invalid conservation status. Hesperian 23:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

As I said, a fossil range is not an indication that the taxon is a fossil. If you have a separate parameter "fossil=1", you can change the taxobox to show it. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 07:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I see. If you're planning on adding a parameter, rather than just changing the way you use what is already there, then you should be having this discussion at Template talk:Taxobox. Hesperian 11:15, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
The more I think about it, the more I think that the problem is that "status=fossil" is perfectly legitimate. It may not be associated with an endorsed status system, but it is still a perfectly reasonable conservation status. The status parameter is never going to be used for anything else in the case of fossils, so "status=fossil" is logically equivalent to "fossil=1". Why don't we propose that "status=fossil" be accepted as valid? Hesperian 04:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Type_locality field, if it is not too much to ask

The missing field in the taxobox is type_locality. Would it be possible to implement this?--Wloveral (talk) 02:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

This talk page is supposed to be for discussions on improving the taxobox documentation. Discussions on improving the functionality ought to be at Template talk:Taxobox. In practice the two talk pages are smudged together somewhat, but I still think you would be better off posting this request over there instead of here. Hesperian 06:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll try knocking on that door.--Wloveral (talk) 21:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)