Talk:Tash (Narnia)

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There is currently a bit of controversy about the numbering of the Narnia books. Horse and His Boy is the fifth book written by Lewis. However, the events take place during the period in which the four children rule Narnia at the end of the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, this makes it the third book in the narrative continuity.

Contents

[edit] numbering

As noted above the numbering is debatable, but naming the books by number didn't add any information to the article since both books are named and linked. Starfoxy 17:53, 18 May 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Bird of prey

This is my first time on a talk page so pardon me if I've done this wrong, but Tash had the head of a vulture, not a bird of prey. I'm not completely familiar with all of the wikiquette yet, so hesitate to make the change without bringing it up here first. KathL 15:26, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

BE BOLD, KathL. If you know that is a more correct description, go ahead and change it. Jonathunder 04:14, 2005 July 31 (UTC)
After three years, I finally made this change.  :D KathL (talk) 07:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Islamic qualities

Does anyone else notice, from The Horse and His Boy, the similarities that are drawn between Tash and Allah, or, more specifically, the way Allah is worshipped? Could be worth mentioning, but it's a controversial change to make. I'm hesitant to actually put it in.

This is a sensitive subject. The Horse and His Boy would now be regarded as a problematic work, since the Calormens are obviously loosely based on the Arab and Turkish peoples. However I am not aware that the similarities between Tash and Allah go further than this. If you have anything to add please do so. Tash is evidently a Satan-like figure, although his exact nature is not gone into in depth. In his serious religious writings Lewis described Islam somewhat ambiguously as "the greatest of the Christian heresies". One wonders whether on a certain level Tash-worship was the sort of enemy Lewis would have liked Christendom to fight against. PatGallacher 17:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I removed this:

The Calormenes' society bears a resemblance to medieval Muslim societies, and Tash is spoken of, by those who worship him, in ways that resemble the way Allah is referred to in Islam. For example, one character says, "In the name of Tash the irresistible, the inexorable - forward!"

Because it is nonsense. Of all the possible resemblances between Calormen and Muslim cultures, the worship of Tash is the point at which there is an absolutely unbridgeable gulf between them. Islam absolutely abjures and abhors the worship of any god but God, and certainly not of any theriomorphic deity represented by an idol. The literary resemblance which the contributor of this paragraph claims to exist, does not in fact exist; Allah is referred to not as "the irresistible, the inexorable" but as "the compassionate, the merciful". If the comparison is only to the formula "In the name of (DEITY X), (ADJECTIVE), (ADJECTIVE), then it is entirely meaningless, as such formulae can be found in Christianity and Judaism, e.g. "in nomine Dei summi et altissimi" (in the name of God the supreme and highest). 68.100.18.183 15:48, 19 January 2006 (UTC)RandomCritic.

It would be nice if editors would care to read the discussion page before claiming "vandalism". Edit restored. 68.100.18.183 09:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)RandomCritic

I'm the editor that 68.100.18.183 is refering to. Sorry about the revert, but it will probably happen again. Like many editors, I rely on edit summaries to understand why edits were made. To me, a deletion by an unregistered or logged-out editor without a summary looks like vandalism. Adding edit summaries would help me make fewer of these types of mistakes. A quick "see talk page" is fine. LloydSommerer 13:07, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised that my sentences about Islam were chopped out. There is no doubt that Lewis drew on medieval Muslim/Arabic culture in the way he describes Calormene culture, including the way Tash is spoken of. Any search on google will quickly show that I am by no means the only person to have noticed this. That Lewis may have also drawn on other sources does not gainsay the point. If you want to introduce weasel words, you can say, correctly, "it is widely believed that". However, I believe it is unnecessary to do so, and that what I have stated is simply a fact (one that the book illustrator picked up on, and I'd be amazed if this was a case where the author had no say about the illustrations).
Note that it is a personal attack to claim, in an edit summary, that a fellow user has made an anti-Muslim slur. It borders on accusing a colleague in this enterprise of racism and has a tendency to provoke conflict. Please be aware in future that personal attacks are forbidden under wikipedia's rules. Even if I (along with others) proved to be wrong, and Lewis was not using Muslim culture and religion as a source, stating that he was doing so would not be making a slur against Muslims. It would simply be a mistake. On the other hand, if I (along with others) am correct, there is a question whether Lewis was making an anti-Muslim slur. That, however, is a separate issue. Metamagician3000 14:10, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Lewis describes the Calormenes worshipping idols of Tash, and sacrificing animals in his name, things that I thought were forbidin in Islam. What with Tash's animal head, and multiple arms, I'd sooner guess that the diety himself is more based on a Hindu god, such as Ganesha Wikiwarlock 04:02, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] picture of tash

there's a illustration of tash therefore why don't people put it up? anyone?.

Be bold and put it up yourself. If you don't know how, see WP:IMAGE. If you don't know where, why don't you tell us where you think we might find one, and an editor will try to upload it themselves. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 04:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)