Talk:Tartan

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Textile Arts WikiProject
Textile arts Portal
This article is within the scope of the Textile Arts WikiProject. Please work to improve this article, or visit our project page to find other ways of helping. Thanks!
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the assessment scale.
Mid This article is on a subject of mid-importance within textile arts.

Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
WikiProject on Scottish clans This article is supported by the Clans of Scotland WikiProject, which gives a central approach to Scottish clans and related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article Tartan, or visit the project page for more details on the projects.
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
Top This article has been rated as top-importance on the importance scale.

Contents

[edit] Yanks in kilts

The reader here may be amused or irritated to read the following assertion, at Talk:Black tie

The "kilt" can be worn by anyone with scottish heritage (including by marrage), or from a location with a tartan (Canada and each province has a tartan that would be appropriate to wear). Many organizations also have a tartan (wearing that as well is acceptable). The point is to wear an appropriate tartan. Wearing the tartan is accepting the leadership of that "clan." A mute point today. There are many approriate tartans to wear. A person form Chile would wear the Cochrane tartan, to recognize the great contribution of the Admiral Cochrane to that country. Of course, if you have ever worn a kilt, the Government tartan is always appropriate. see link www.electricscotland.com/webclans/weartart.htm --User:Glenlarson

This is part of a "dscussion" at Talk:Black tie Here it is in whole, with last response.

The link to electricscotland.com seems to be broken. Has the page moved?  — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 17:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Highland regalia"

"Kilts have become normal wear for formal occasions, for example being hired for weddings in much the same way as top hat and tails are in England or tuxedos across the pond, and can be worn by anyone regardless of nationality or descent. " A recipe for fools. One could with equal truth say that any coat-of-arms can be selected and painted on the doors of one's SUV, "by anyone regardless of nationality or descent." In such circles, it is thought quite witty when someone refers to the North Atlantic as "the pond". --Wetman 19:17, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Now, coat-of-arms are "issued" by varrious authorities, usually governmental in nature, but also from some other "real" authorities, like varrious royal houses, and religious authorities. They can be obtained by those that are acceptable, in some conditions, like military officers and accidemic educated.

The "kilt" can be worn by anyone with scottish heritage (including by marrage), or from a location with a tartan (Canada and each province has a tartan that would be appropriate to wear). Many organizations also have a tartan (wearing that as well is acceptable). The point is to wear an appropriate tartan. Wearing the tartan is accepting the leadership of that "clan." A mute point today. There are many approriate tartans to wear. A person form Chile would wear the Cochrane tartan, to recognize the great contribution of the Admiral Cochrane to that country. Of course, if you have ever worn a kilt, the Government tartan is always appropriate. see link www.electricscotland.com/webclans/weartart.htm --User:Glenlarson

"A person from Chile would wear the Cochrane tartan, to recognize the great contribution of Admiral Cochrane to that country." Well, I live where Lorna Doone cookies are baked... But, which tartan would be appropriate if you were, say, from Vladivostok and stationed in Antarctica, one wonders... A "mute point" indeed! Similar fantasies encourage truly naive Americans to send away for "their" family crest-- say Smith-- and display it with pride to the gawping locals! The text remains in the article, what one calls "only a snare for geese."
—"I think we're all bozos on this bus." -Firesign Theater. --Wetman 01:47, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)--Wetman 01:47, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The original text was copied form the article titled kilt. Many may be upset at others wearing the kilt; however, Scottish culture has been spread around the world, including India and Pakistan, or any "British" Caribbean island, which have pipe bands. Few would think them of Scottish extraction, but they may be, and would have "right" to a kilt, regardless. They may even have a Scottish name!
One point of vies is but that, one. The talk page provides a forum for review, and yes many naive people do get "snared" ( see also Talk:Tartan). Don't know it is assumed I am a "Yank" but I do have more Scot blood than any other, all be it low land, but not the "name."
The reference for the assertion was provided. Do they live near?
Now white tie, was first what a Swed would wear to a wedding! --User:Glenlarson
Speaking as a Scot, it is my sincere opinion that the kilt, like any other item of clothing, can be worn by anyone. It's nice to wear the "right" tartan if such a thing exists for your ancestry, but since the whole concept of clan tartan was made up after the clan system had largely collapsed, I don't think it's worth getting worked up about. Daibhid C 10:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Daihbhid, the wearing of kilts and tartan has spread far beyond Scotland, I wore one at my wedding as an alternative to the boring old suit. I'm an Englishman who has lived in Ireland for the last decade. Based on my ancestry, place of work and place of residence I can identify thirteen different tartans that I can wear, all but one of them a late 20th century design. There is a new tradition now and I like it. EddieLu 11:47, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cornish and Welsh Tartan kilts

Just added a few brief words and links about the modern Cornish and Welsh Tartan Kilt phenomena. Bretagne 44 1/3/05

[edit] Tartan Colours

The colours used in a tartan's sett do have certain meanings, as does the amount of one colour in relation to other colours. I'm not very sure about many of them and would appreciate a list of the colours and the usual meaning, so as to be better able to read classic Clan settsn (and also weigh the claims made by the many "fictive" and fashion setts, chuckle chuckle... ;=} ).

I know there is one for landownership (brown or green?), one for coastal or Islay clans (blue, IIRC), yellow or gold--wealthy clan (e.g. Buchanan), black--clan with much ties to the clergy, there is one for livestock-wealth (was it green for the pasture or read for the meat?), military connections (red?)... What else are there, and could an authority on the topic pls. insert them in the Tartan article?

Thanks,

DJ Vollkasko
Temporary Newton Library
http://www.stillnewt.org/library
(User:212.149.48.43 2006-02-08 11:08:03)

[edit] design principles?

I'd love to see some info about tartan design principles, if any exist. If there is a registry, how similar is too similar? What motifs appear in related tartans? Are there tartans that combine motifs from two or more others? In other words, is there anything in tartanry that corresponds to the symbolic language of heraldry? —Tamfang 05:46, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English tartan

It says that tartan is called 'check' in the north of England. It might be called check by some, but it's also called Tartan! The national dress of Northumbria is the Northumbrian tartan, not 'check'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 121.72.66.143 (talk) 08:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

I've never heard it called a check by anyone in Northumberland. They call it a tartan. The only people I've heard call it a check are Scots - usually a derogatory reference, e.g. "Of course it's not a really a tartan, it's a check!" Admitedly it is a check - but it's properly called a tartan! Anjouli 12:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm concerned about the section which says that tartan was invented by an Englishman. The oldest tartan-style fabric yet found dates to some three thousand years ago, which well predates England or Englishmen. Now, it's true that our modern form of the kilt was invented by an Englishman, but tartan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.114.39.175 (talk) 19:04, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irish Clans

The line "The Irish people had clans too, except each clan mostly lived within its own community, also known as a county. So far, there are 32 counties in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland".

True there are 32 counties in the island of Ireland but they are not connected in any way to the Irish clans. The county system was imposed on Ireland by the English administration and based on the English county system, it's not native to Ireland in any way. It still exists of course and to the people that live in them there is firece loyalty, I live in County Louth.

Before the gradual conquest Ireland was made up of kingdoms e.g. Oriel, Meath, Connacht etc with an over-all High King.

EddieLu 16:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I had enough and since no one countered my notes above I removed the section on Irish Clans, as it was basically made up.

The concept of Irish Clans is a relatively recent one, and indeed the Irish Govt. has recently withdrawn the courtesy recognition it used to give to Chiefs of the Name following the McCarthy Mor fiasco.

As for Irish clan tartans again these are very recent and have no basis in tradition and are not connected to the history of tartan.

The only clan tartan recognised by the Chief Herald of Ireland is that of Clan Cian.

The county system in Ireland is a local government administrative one and not connected to the old Gaelic system. EddieLu 12:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation/POV

I was very tempted to simply remove the section but would rather give time for faults to be fixed:

Held up by widespread perception that the bill's initial drafting was unduly influenced by a self-interested minority industry faction, it is hoped that new law may yet emerge formalising tartan's status for the good of all. The reasons for needing a formal registry are severalfold: there are no clear definitions of colours, there is no standard definition of the sett, i.e., geometry, or spacing of the tartan's patterns. This lack of definitions has led to dumping of miscolored and malshaped tartans in the North American markets.

Widespread? says who?. Hoped by who? Reasons only given for the registry none against? Why should it matter what floods the American market. The para is simply editor pov and not impartial. It needs citation or major rewording. Alci12 17:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] tartan vs. plaid

What's the difference? 71.234.109.192 (talk) 08:19, 12 January 2008 (UTC)