Talk:Tapetum lucidum

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is part of the WikiProject Ophthalmology, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to ophthalmology on Wikipedia. To participate, visit the project page.

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at the doctor's mess.
Start	This page has been rated as start-Class on the quality assessment scale
Mid	This article has been rated as mid-importance on the importance assessment scale

1 Definition
2 Eyeshine
3 Giant isopod
4 Lemur
5 Anyone Care to Explain this
6 Article comments
7 Cave dwellers
8 Eyeshine and visual acuity
9 Refs, for reference
10 inconsistent description of the 'tapetum lucidum'

[edit] Definition

I modified the definition of tapetum lucidum to match the more sensical translation of tapetum (tapestry rather than carpet). A tapestry is vertically hanging, in the same plane (vertical) as one would see the eyes of a living animal. Thus, it makes more sense to me to use the vertical aspect of the latin-english translation (tapestry) as opposed to the horizontal aspect of the latin-english translation (carpet).

Which species have it? Do humans have it? AxelBoldt 22:13 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Cats, yes, people, no. <Not all cats. Siamese cats do not. Their eyes reflect red, just as human eyes do.> Lots and lots of animals, I think, but cats are the ones famous for it. -- Someone else 22:16 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

We do have it, we just can't use it. Look at the inner corner of your eye in a mirror. That pink thing is your tapeum ludicum.

Could someone supply a citation that verifies humans have but can't use a tapetum;

a letter in "nature" contradicts this directly.

"Man and the higher apes have no tapetum;" [1] 69.248.130.133 00:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Siamese cats do actually have tapetum lucidum. The point pattern in cats that Siamese cats express, which is not ::::unique to the Siamese breed, is a limited form of albinism. This means that pigment is reduced in in the fur ::::(creating the white parts of the body), but also in the eyes. This absence of color creates the optical illusion ::::of point cats having blue eyes, and also allows the red blood vessels to show through the tampetum lucidum. This ::::creates the red glow. Point cats still have it, it just ends up being colored by the blood rather than the pigment. Swiftwindcat 22:10, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eyeshine

Should it be mentioned that when an animals eye reflects light like that, it is called Eyeshine? For example, the Fox hunting article mentions this reflecting effect in the eyes as "Eyeshine" and I have seen several websites that also call it eyeshine. So should the article note that the reflective effect of the tapetum lucidum is called Eyeshine? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.154.144.123 (talk) 03:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Giant isopod

A frontal view of Bathynomus giganteus, showing its large, highly reflective compound eyes

I don't know in which article this impressive pic would fit... Scriberius 19:18, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lemur

According to this nature letter, Lemurs have tapeta. Would this make a nice addition?

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v183/n4666/abs/183985a0.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.8.132.161 (talk) 23:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anyone Care to Explain this

 I have been trying to determine the cause of my eye color in this photo:

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v10/128/84/3210900/n3210900_30359310_8829.jpg

 I seriously doubt I have a tapetum lucidum  —Preceding unsigned comment added by FlyingApe (talk • contribs) 17:17, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

If it was just that one photo, I would say it's a fluke. If it happens in many photos or reflects at night, it could be a sign of retinoblastoma, a nasty cancer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.216.61 (talk) 23:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article comments

I was asked to comment on the article, and here it goes:

Sources, sources, sources...The more references, the better (as long as they are reliable).
A diagram showing the tissue as part of the whole eye.
Describe the varients in the classification section.
I find the line: "Eyeshine can be seen in flash photographs of animals, and in person" confusing...I thought people didn't have eyeshine.
I wouldn't put images of all the animals with eyeshine...the human/dog one is okay, though. Maybe making an image with side-by-side eyehine pictures (the eyes only) for eyeshine of different colours.
An anatomy section like Optic disc, if necessary.
Also, look at other eye-related article like Cornea, etc. and see what they have that's not here.

Cheers, Spencer^T♦^C 19:41, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Great comments! --Una Smith (talk) 20:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Response to comments: More sources now, still more to come. It seems no special-purpose diagram exists, but the tapetum lucidum is in the choroid or the retina, so can use any diagram that labels these. Variants described; the messy one may need more detail. Confusing line fixed, I hope. Agree re images; eyes gallery a nice idea, but so far few images available (many on Commons note the eyeshine has been edited out...). Last 2 points pending. --Una Smith (talk) 04:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cave dwellers

Is eyeshine common among cave dwellers? Any notable examples? --Una Smith (talk) 22:16, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Eyeshine and visual acuity

Dog vision here... --Una Smith (talk) 04:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Primate Anatomy: An Introduction (Google Books) has a long section on eyes, with much discussion of tapetum lucidum but little synthesis and no citations. --Una Smith (talk) 03:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Article text: Tapetum lucidum "is supposed to cause the perceived image to be blurry from the interference of the reflected light." The TL is a *retroreflector*, so in theory there should be no blur. I find no evidence for blur, only reasonable supposition. State the supposition as such, citing refs. --Una Smith (talk) 14:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Refs, for reference

Grab bag of refs not to hand that may be useful. --Una Smith (talk) 02:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Ziem, K. H. (1893) Das Tapetum lucidum bei Durchleuchtung des Auges Zeitschrift f. Psychologie u. Physiologie der Sinnesorgane. Bd. IV. Hft. 6. S. 401—403.
Franz (1906) Zur Anatomic, Histologie, und functionellen Gestaltung des Selachierauges. Jen. Zeitschr. /. Naturwiss., vol. 40, pp. 697-840, pl. 29

Eyes of 18 species of sharks and rays. --Una Smith (talk) 03:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] inconsistent description of the 'tapetum lucidum'

In one sentance, it is...

"...often described as iridescent..."

Then, in the next:

"The tapetum lucidum, which is iridescent..."

'often described as' and 'is' have different connotations - picking one and sticking with it would help make things more consistent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.173.101 (talk) 05:05, 14 June 2008 (UTC)