Talk:Taoist sexual practices
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Quote: The second method involved the man applying pressure on an area between the scrotum and the anus, and cause a retrograde ejaculation into the bladder. Needham called this method "coitus thesauratus".
From what I know, the ejaculation should not go into the bladder. Instead, by applying the pressure the right place, it should lead out into the whole body. If it goes to the bladder, it will get lost, just as if you had ejaculated. I read this in a book saying, that you could take a look at your urine to check if it went to the bladder.
Response: Actually you are right, the ejaculation was supposed to go up into the brain, according to the ancient Chinese, but the semen either has to come out or go into the bladder, as far as I know, it can't go anywhere else. The explanation in the article is referring to modern physiology, and not what the ancient Chinese believed.Zeus1234 20:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Added Cleanup tag after reading the article, which includes the following:
One of the best kept secrets of Taoist Magic is the attainment of whole body orgasm. The technique is very simple. At the moment of orgasm, one channels the orgasmic feeling from the genitals into the middle tan tien (ie. Chest) and from there one spreads the feeling throughout the body/mind.
Unsourced claims about the alleged "secrets" of "Taoist Magic" have no place in an encyclopedia. No useful explanation is given as to how one might perform said technique, but it's nevertheless purported to be "very simple", followed by a specious description of "orgasmic feeling" and the supposed ability to channel it. This is unverifiable original research, and doesn't belong in this article or any other. If you're knowledgeable on the subject and have access to some reliable sources, please edit this article to meet Wikipedia's standards of quality.
Greetings. I've removed the "philosophical" attribution, because such practises are actually a bit more phenomenal, originating in the alchemical school. --Fire Star 06:09, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I've rewritten a sginificant part of the article using scholarly sources (The Wile book I added to the bibliography), and will revamp the exercise section sometime in the future. I also removed the cleanup tag. Zeus1234 22:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Which is correct, Daoist or Taoist? The title of the article is "Taoist...", but the text has "Daoist" throughout. Speciate 00:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)speciate
As the person who wrote the article, I will explain this discrepancy. There is a debate over what the correct spelling that is summarized in this article Daoism-Taoism Romanization issue. I personally prefer the usage Daoism, as it is in pinyin and better represents the pronunciation of the word. In all the articles about Daoism I have contributed to, (with the exception of Taoism for obvious reasons), I have retained this usage. If someone wishes to change everything to Taoism, they are welcome to do so, but I prefer the usage of Daoism.Zeus1234 04:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Modern vs. Ancient Practices
Recently 68.107.91.165 made significant edits to much of the article that I had originally written. While some of the edits were useful (and others were not), they do not describe the same 'qi' or 'jing' that are listed in the article. My sources (all pre-1500) clearly indicate that qi is what is lost through ejaculation, and not jing as the edits by 68.107.91.165 would have us believe. Of course it is entirely possible that modern day practices use this description of jing. Because there seems to be a difference between the old and modern practices, please footnote. That way if there are contradictions, they can be backed up at least, and not ruthlessly deleted. Many of the edits by 68.107.91.165 contained a great deal things like 'it is debated.' These need footnotes!!! Also some of 68.107.91.165 edits were chatty in style and read life a self-help manual. This does not conform with Wikipedia's article guidelines.
I have now referenced most of my sources. All of the first sections of the article are about practices before 1500!! Please when someone wants to add something based on modern day practices, please do so in the 'Modern Practices section.' Obviously the practices have changed since the 1500s, and it is important to differentiate between them.Zeus1234 19:45, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Footnoting and Sources
Because some of the 'new age' aspects of this topic are contrversial (just look at the controvery section, which needs footnotes!), please include footnotes and references when adding something under the auspices of 'new age' sexual practices. If this is not done, there is nothing to back you up, and your addition could very well be deleted.Zeus1234 19:58, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Controversy
We don't need to delete this edit about Reich. This edit, as well as many other edit in this article(!) need sources, but, as a student of Reich this is a valid statement. Please wait for a source. I'll find one, but not right now. If you delete this particular edit, delete the rest of the unsourced material as well.--al95521 06:54, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
All the parts of the article I have written have sources. Try and find a source for the Reich edits you have made. Zeus1234 13:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Taoist belief in sexual promiscuity
I'm unsure of the current practices of sexual promiscuity in the overall Taoist religion. I was wondering if someone would be able to fill in a section regarding this matter. My thoughts towards the belief of Taoism is still in personal debate. Thanksly Aeryck89 14:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Are you talking about Taoism as it is currently practiced? Or how it was in the past?Zeus1234 16:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
In both times, if possible. As the perception and the practice of it in modern times, as with the past fashion. Like with perception pre-marital sex in the religion, how it is seen as ethical or not and whether it is detrimental to the overall concept to maintaining a wholesome state of belief as with pertaining to the virtues of Taoism. More into this, how it is seen in modern times as with, if there was any activity of this sort in those associated with this religion in the past and what effect would take place if this was infringed. Thanks man, Aeryck89 17:42, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
I am lacking some sources at the moment, but i will attend to the task.
There has been scientific research which supports these claims. Control experiments on creatures ranging from Nematodes to Mid-sized Mammals have produced results that link non-ejaculation to longevity. Every Biological System prioritises re-production over all else; even survival. (Eg; salmon, Spiders, Shrews as good examples). The manufacture of Motile Gametes requires disproportionate resources when compared to other cells. (Source; Mantak Chia, Douglas Abrams; "the multi orgasmic man")
Amongst many others, I can Vouch for the authenticity of the practices. An orgasm is a regular spasm-contraction which can occure in any part of the body. However I would not pretend to state that such practices are without potential difficulties and dangers. Karmira 22:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] White Tigress
I don't know anything about this subject, but I notice that in one book cited at the end of the article (Hsi Lai, The Sexual Teachings of the White Tigress: Secrets of the Female Taoist Masters), much of the text is devoted to the theory that to obtain qi, the woman engages primarily in fellatio. Should something on this be added to the article? Famspear 22:16, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Merger proposal
There's a dubious Sexual practices in Orthodox Taoism article that could either be deleted or merged here. Keahapana (talk) 23:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Reached their peak?
- The sexual arts arguably reached their peak between the end of the Han dynasty and the end of the Tang dynasty.
You mean, like... "climaxed"? rowley (talk) 19:04, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
