Talk:Tanzania

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[edit] Unique

Being a pedant, I changed the phrase 'relatively unique' to 'relatively unusual'. Strictly speaking, the word unique cannot be qualified - something is either unique or it isn't. It does not make sense to describe something by degrees of uniqueness. Pftaylor (talk) 22:33, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kagera

'Ziwa Magharibi' was changed to 'Kagera' many years ago. See for example the official Tanzania government web site: http://www.tanzania.go.tz/regions/kagera/index.html

Rweba 05:57, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)Rweba

[edit] Tsunami?

The line "10 people killed in 2004 Tsunami" appears at the bottom of the History section. I do not believe that this was a significant historical event for Tanzania. Is there any reason for this fact being included, or should it be deleted? yakk 02:57, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It's just telling history, it never said it was signifigent.

[edit] Official language

Is their any source, where I can check that really both Swahili and English are official languages in Tanzania? I always thought it was only Swahili, unlike Kenya, where it's both. Marcoscramer 15:52, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Some of them spoke egnlish also—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.248.173 (talk • contribs) 23:03, 19 January 2006

I could not find anything about that on any official government website. The best I could get is information from embassies. There seems be some lack of consession.

"The official language is Kiswahili, which is universally spoken .. ,and is the medium of instruction in all primary schools. English is second official language, the country’s commercial language and also the main teaching language for all scientific subjects in secondary schools and higher education institutions..."

Tanzanian Consulate, Australia

Tanzanian Embassy Washington DC

""Swahili is the national and official language while English is the business language."

Tanzania Embassy, Tokyo

""Official language: Kiswahili & English"

Embassy Tanzania in Germany"

""English is the official language of education; administration and business while Swahili is the most widely used language."

Tanzanian Embassy in France

--Ezeu 21:56, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

When i was working as a doctor in Tanzania, Swahili was the National and official language, but we used English in the hospitals as it was used as the language of education for the nurses and doctors, and also to assist the English and foreign doctors working in Tanzania. I think the embassies which have replied above have answered this particular query. Thanks to them for being involved with Wikipedia. --drmike 18:39, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

The important point is, of course, whether English is mentioned in some law to be an official language. I'm fairly sure Swahili is mentioned, as Nyerere made it official language after independence (probably with some law). But I'm not sure whether English is mentioned anywhere apart from in the educational laws (to be medium of instruction in sec. schools and universities). This alone wouldn't make it an official langauge. Marcoscramer 14:37, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Dr. drmike, those replies were not made by the embassies, but retrieved from their websites. That kiswahili is de facto official language is not in dispute. The question is: what are the constitutional official languages of Tanzania? / -Ezeu 19:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

The Tanzanian Constitution does not clearly state that Swahili or English is the offical language. In one of the sections about qualities of individuals fit to run for the presidency, it states that he/she must be able to speak swahili or english fluently. The government fully functions in swahili and it is expected to do so. Being that i grew up in Tanzania, every government form and official notice i came across is in swahili, (some government services are provided both in english and swahili, like business license applications etc). English is just widely spoken. For More Info : |Tanzanian Constitution Omoo 22:52, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Given this bit of information, it sounds like de jure no language is official, and de facto just Swahili. So I put it that way in the table. Marcoscramer 20:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

An anonymous user changed the official language part back to "Swahili, English" on 10th of March 2006 with the comment "Added official languages, as per the Embassy of Tanzania in Germany". Given the above noticed contradictions between various embassies, we can't consider them trustworthy sources of information. Omoo's comment above seems to suggest that there are no de jure official languages, and only Swahili is de facto official. No one has called into doubt his comment. So I changed this part back to what it said before. Marcoscramer 21:13, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Both English and kiswahili are national and official language but they differ as where u will use one.

Are you intending to say that both are de jure official. Then you need to mention sources. If you agree with User:Omoo:Omoo that there are no de jure official languages in Tanzania, then you supposedly mean that English is de facto official. From the experience that I have of living in Tanzania, I can only agree with Omoo's view, that nowadays only Swahili is really de facto official. The fact that the government fully functions in Swahili and is expected to do so also suggests that only Swahili is de facto official. Marcoscramer 18:19, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New point concerning the official status of English

According to the Tanzanian Swahili A-level textbook "Nadharia ya lugha Kiswahili 1" by J. A. Masebo and N. Nyangwine, English is used in higher courts in Tanzania (i.e. only the courts lowest in the legal hierarchy use Swahili). In order to decide, whether this is enough evidence for English being an official language in Tanzania, we need a precise definition of "official language".

Unfortunately, the English Wikipedia article official language just first states a definition equivalent to "de jure official language", and only later admits that there are also de facto official languages, without giving a precise definition of "official language" that allows for this.

However, the German Wikipedia article about official languages gives a definition that accounts for both de jure and de facto official languages, namely that an official language is a language used by the civil service and in the communication between the civil service and the population. According to this definition, the usage of English in higher courts cannot be considered evidence for English being an official language. However, later the German article says that there is a wider sense of "official language" according to which the language(s) used in courts, in parliament and in writing the laws are also considered official languages. According to the portuguese Wikipedia, this wider sense of "official language" is also the definition for "official language" given by UNESCO.

So should we use the definition that the German Wikipedia considers the main meaning of "official language", or should we use the definition that UNESCO is said to use (the second option only seems sensible if we can confirm that this really is the definition used by UNESCO). What do others think? Marcoscramer 00:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English is co-official language

According to "The Tanzania National Website" English is official language: "Kiswahili and English are the Official languages, however the former is the national language. While Kiswahili is the medium of instructions at primary school level; English is medium at Higher educational levels." Aotearoa from Poland 07:25, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

according to the 1998 edition of the encyclopedia of people and places, theofficial languages are both swhili and englishDizzyizzy 13:27, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

None of these sources is precise about whether they mean de jure official or de facto official. The above discussion suggests that there is no de jure official language, so until someone can mention a Tanzanian law that states otherwise, we should assume here that neither of the two languages is de jure official.

De facto officiality on the other hand is, as mentioned above, not a clear cut concept. As I wrote above, English is used in higher courts, so it could be considered de facto official (and maybe that's why these sources call it official). But in a more narrow sence of "official" (="used in the administration"), it seems that only Swahili is de facto official. Marcoscramer 08:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

In that case add English and explain how it is de facto. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:12, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

This also comes from the government website, http://www.tanzania.go.tz/educationf.html .

"Medium of Instruction

The main feature of Tanzania’s education system is the bilingual policy, which requires children to learn both Kiswahili and English. English is essential, as it is the language which links Tanzania and the rest of the world through technology, commerce and also administration. The learning of the Kiswahili enables Tanzania’s students to keep in touch with their cultural values and heritage. English is taught as compulsory subject in the primary education whereas at post primary education is the medium of instruction. With regard the Kiswahili, it is the medium of instruction at primary education while at tertiary education is taught as compulsory subject at secondary education and as option at tertiary education."

Out of the Tanzanians I know, the younger they are, the more comfortable and confident they are in English. It seems that Tanzania has almost completed a transition to a point where both languages are official. So why not say: Official language(s): Kiswahili, English (almost official)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thecurran (talk • contribs) 16:47, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

One should clearly seperate the concepts of "official language" and "medium of instruction". Unfortunately, the article official language isn't very clear about the definition of "de facto official language" (no language is de iure official in Tanzania, so all we are talking about is de facto officiality). Its German counterpart on the other hand has more precise definitions: It defines official language in the narrow sense to be the language(s) used in administration and in the government; official language in the broad sense also covers the language(s) used in the parliament and the courts. By these definitions, only Swahili is an official language in the narrow sense. In the broad sense, English could be considered an official language too, as it is used in the higher courts (though not in the lower courts, nor in the parliament).

I don't think that it makes much sense to mention English in the table. But we should go into more detail about the issue in the section "Languages"; see the German and Spanish versions of this article for a more detailed account of the official language issue.

(Even though it's irrelevant to the official language issue, I would like to respond to Thecurran's claim about younger people being more confident with English: In the 1970's Tanzanian university students used to talk in English to each other; now they almost exclusively use Swahili. Additionally, in university and secondary school classes, often Swahili or a mix between English and Swahili is used, even though officially only English is allowed (as it is the medium of instruction at those levels); I believe that that was much less common some decades ago. Nevertheless, it's probably true that English is known more among the younger than among the older; but that's due to the general raise of the level of education. If you just compare people of one level of education but of different ages, I think it's more likely that you find that the older people speak English better than the younger people). Marcoscramer (talk) 20:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A see also section for politician biography

Plus, I would have been happy to read where this guy is coming from [[Freeman Mbowe]

Freeman Mbowe is business man comes from Kilimanjaro area.

[edit] Map

Is there any way to get a better map of Tanzania? I understand wanting to show where in Africa it is, but this map does a horrible job of showing the shape of Tanzania. Especially since at that size, the important island of Zanzibar should be at least a little visible. --Schwael 15:07, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

Shouldn't religion be mentioned somewhere? Tue Jan 17 19:24:49 UTC 200 religion has been mentioned before majorly 3 Christian,muslims and traditional religins.

[edit] History

Does anybody besides me think that Isibingo's [[1]] and [edit|] should be placed in History of Tanzania instead of under History in Tanzania? Darth Panda 18:04, 22 February 2006 (UTC) Please could you include more on Tanzania's history pre-colonisation. The current summary seems rather Euro-centric. Cheers.

Why should isidingo mentioned in history of Tanzania??that is south african series not and never to be part of our history. U can add about the well known leadrs like mkwawa?mangi meli,mangi meza?Mw.J.K nyerere if u want history or how Dar Es Salaam has started

The national museum in Arusha should probably be mentioned. Rich in pictures and also quite a few items. Think I even have a picture of it somewhere. Should upload it to the media part for public use.Ragnvald 20:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Corruption and unneccesary government spending?

Short-term economic progress also depends on curbing corruption and cutting on unnecessary public spending

Is government corruption a big problem in Tanzania? I was under the (possibly mistaken) impression that it was one of the better countries in Africa. The citation given regarding an aircraft purchase doesn't really have anything to do with it. Also, 'unnecessay public spending' seems to imply social programs or something of the sort, of which I don't see any evidence.

Yes goverment corruption is a big problem in Tanzania though thats why we have PCB

[edit] grammer mistakes in the article ?? ==

I'm not an expert on the subject but i guess there are certain gramatical mistakes which need to be fixed .. for example i notices a nimber of "has" is hte history subsection which probably has to be replaced with "had" .. experts please do a check on this .

grammar?

I suggest you try editing these yourself--after all that's the purpose of Wikipedia ;) Antonrojo 21:00, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citing sources??

What is the wikipedia community standard about citing sources? The entire section about Economy seems to be lifted verbatim from the CIA World Factbook... here: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tz.html#Econ Tparadis 22:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

--Enlight 08:00, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree re sources. This article appears to be rather one-sided in its historical perspective in that it more or less condemns colonialism and fails to mention any of its benefits. There are a great many excellent academic source books on Tanganyika and even on German East Africa. Christchurch 09:51, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

--Anon user 09:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Also missing are any reference to sources supporting the "questionable" motives of the World Bank funding, or any sources to support the described decline in life expectancy etc. If such strong statements can't be supported with citations, then I believe they should be removed.

[edit] President and Prime Minister, government and cabinet

I'd like to write on Tanzania's politics to the Finnish Wikipedia. It's hard to understand the text here. Politics of Tanzania says that the President is the head of government, Tanzania says: "The president appoints a prime minister who serves as the government's leader in the National Assembly. The president selects his cabinet from among National Assembly members." So, does "government" refer to the entire National Assembly here, and "cabinet" to the ministers? 81.197.12.28 18:23, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

The president is the Head of State and the Head of Government. The prime minister is the principal assistant to the President, leading the day-to-day functions and affairs of the Government, including the the National Assembly. The National Assembly consists Members of Parliament, and the Cabinet (selected from the National Assembly) are ministers. See the Government website (Public Administration).--Ezeu 18:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps this page will be helpful: List of Tanzania National Assembly members. The page shows the members of parliament, their constituencies, and their cabinet positions (if any). The information is presented in alphabetical order by last name, and then again arranged by constituency. Malangali 13:31, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Capital

Which capital is it? Dodoma and Dar es salaam are 2 different cities! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.253.203.94 (talk) 19:45, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Dar es Salaam used to be the capital and is still the biggest city and most important business hub in the country. Dodoma is the capital where the Parliament is established. It is something like Washington D.C.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.98.234.207 (talk • contribs) December 2006.

There is inaccurate information on Tanzania in this article. Dodoma was designated as the new political capital in 1973 not 1996. All government offices were to have been transfered by the early 1980's, but weren't for various reasons including lack of sufficient water supply and most likely because no one wanted to move from Dar es Salaam, which is on the shores of the Indian Ocean to Dodoma which is in the middle of nowhere. Although new Parliament building were erected, they are only occupied for a few weeks each year in the month of June, when government officials all pile into their SUVs and make the 6 hour journey. There is only one ministry that has relocated to Dodoma and only partially. The introduction should be corrected to reflect this.- Dagobert, December 9, 2007, 2037 EAT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.43.76.248 (talk) 17:38, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Eastern Africa at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Eastern Africa whose scope would include Tanzania. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ˌtænzəˈniə

I have asked for a citation with the {{cite}} tag for the pronounciation ˌtænzəˈniə but it keeps being deleated. The reason I ask is that I'm pretty sure the correct pronounciation is actually something like ˈtɑnˌzæniə (probably not quite correct as I'm not good with IPA). This pronounciation also seems more logical to me, given the evolution from Tanganyika and Zanzibar. Anyway... If its correct can we please have a citeation, else find out which is correct and change it. Thanks. 82.32.73.246 05:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I've added a reference. --Ezeu 06:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] If help or clarification or sources or information is needed...

If anyone needs any information about tanzania or clarification or anything, feel free to leave a message on my talk page. I live in dar-es-salaam, tanzania, and I'll do my best to get information that you ask for. Nish81 20:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Welcome, just start editing. Add what is missing, correct what is wrong. --Ezeu 21:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Information Please

I am currently involved in Model U.N. My country is Tanzania. I was wondering if you had any information on Tanzania's political allies and adversaries or had any helpful sites. Chris 23:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History section rewrite

The history section is 2800 words and the whole article is 5450 words, so it's just over half the whole thing. The main article History of Tanzania is only 1400 words. The history seciton also reads as if it has been cobbled together from other articles -- it's out of sequence, repetitive in places and contradictory. As well as inline citations it lacks wikilinks and recognition of other articles such as German East Africa, Tanganyika, East African Campaign (World War I), Zanzibar, and so on. I suggest cutting by 60% and moving useful material to History of Tanzania. I would have a go but I'm working through a list of other priorities. Rexparry sydney 10:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. --Ezeu 15:38, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Left

Nowhere says they drive on the left. I think i'll be interested to have it.--Nauki 12:42, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] percent vs percentage points

Currently the economy section reads "The impact of this power gap is estimated to have reduced national GDP growth by at least four percent to 5.9 for 2006." What is probably meant are four percentage points rather than four percent, because growth reducing by four percent is quite a small difference. Growth reducing by four percent to 5.9 percent means that it was 6.136 percent the year before. If it was 9.9 percent the year before, then we need to write "percentage points" instead of "percent". Marcoscramer 22:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] HIstory section

This section is top-heavy. I found a similar problem at the history section of Zanzibar. I lopped off most of it, merged the good stuff into History of Zanzibar, wrote a lede for that, and rewrote that more briefly as an appropriate history section for Zanzibar. (Comments and amendments welcome over there.) I see the history section here, and its (non)-relationship with History of Tanzania, have received the same criticism. I propose the same attention. Any objections? BrainyBabe (talk) 21:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Done. BrainyBabe (talk) 13:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)