Talk:Tank Mark VIII

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
WikiProject Disambiguation This page is part of WikiProject Disambiguation, an attempt to structure and organize all disambiguation pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, you can edit the page attached to this talk page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

[edit] Requested move

I am consolidating a series of disambiguation pages that begin with Mark I, Mark II and so on, up until we run out of notable weapon, product and vehicle marks. I would like to have this page's name be devoted to a disambiguation page that lists various "Mark 8" and "Mark VIII" things such as this tank, the Cromwell tank, the Harry Hopkins tank, a torpedo or two, a naval gun, a howitzer, a Spitfire variant, a Handley Page cargo plane, a Lincoln car, a computer, a calculator, etc.

This Mark VIII tank page was moved from Mark VIII (tank) to what it is now in February 2008 but I don't feel that reversing that move is the best direction. I don't think the parentheses are necessary. Yes, there's the Mark VI (tank) page and a bunch of redirect pages ending with (tank) but there's also the Mark I tank and the Mark IX tank pages that don't have parentheses. I like the more trim look of those. Binksternet (talk) 16:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree, it should be Mark VIII Tank or Mk VIII Tank or Mk VIII tank... Likewise the Commons categories. Certainly Mark VIII (tank) seems a sub-optimal (and inaccurate) name scheme.. I believe the article should be named after what the subject was correctly called in real life. And don't forget Mark Twain. Rcbutcher (talk) 17:26, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, the problem is that the Mark VIII was not called "Mark VIII Tank". Of course it was a "Mark VIII tank" — but that was not its name. So the parentheses, though obviously inelegant, serve a purpose: to prevent the misunderstanding that the name was "Mark VII Tank". The full "official" name was apparently "Tank Mark VIII" or "Heavy Tank Mark VIII" or perhaps "Tank Mk. VIII" — I've seen all three versions in the literature.--MWAK (talk) 18:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Ah, okay. I'm certainly inexpert in terms of tank nomenclature. I continue to propose a move of some sort, even if Mark VIII tank is not the name finally chosen. Here's a mockup of the dab page that is expected to take its place here at 'Mark VIII': Mark VIII (sandbox mockup of dab page). Binksternet (talk) 18:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps the original Mark VIII (tank) would still be the best solution?--MWAK (talk) 19:59, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Tank Mark VIII or Mark VIII tank. No need to shorten "Mark", equally avoid "." in article name. GraemeLeggett (talk) 08:46, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Replying to MWAK: I don't agree that the article name need line up with what the article subject was called. It's a good practice, sure, but not universally followed. For instance, not many people would have called the Sherman an M4 Sherman, yet that's our article name, probably in order to make room for a disambiguation page.
The name of the article "Light Tank Mk VIII" shortens "Mark" to "Mk". That would seem to suggest another two possibilities here: "Tank Mk VIII" or "Heavy Tank Mk VIII".


For this specific article, we've got these choices on the table:
  • Tank Mark VIII
  • Tank Mk VIII
  • Heavy Tank Mark VIII
  • Heavy Tank Mk VIII
  • Mark VIII tank
  • Mark VIII (tank) Binksternet (talk) 00:00, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if you tank editors wish to coordinate all the tank article names at this time, but if that is the wish, now would be a pretty good time, considering this proposed move.
Why not create the article under the correct official name, and have a couple of redirect pages using the names people would commonly use e.g. Page name Tank Mark I, with a redirect page Mark I tank. The whole purpose would be to assist e.g. a school history student doing a project on WWI to find whatever info they need, about an era which to them would be as remote as the Stone Age. Personally, I would search for "World War I tank" or "First World War tank" or "1916 tank" and expect to find something. The article should then give him/her enough info to understand what the item was called in its day (what did the crew itself call it in say 1918 ?) and what it did. Rcbutcher (talk) 03:34, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Of all the alternatives I'd prefer "Tank Mark VIII". It's best not to make too many redirects; letting "World War I tank" redirect to the Mark I instead of Tanks in World War I seems undesirable :o).--MWAK (talk) 08:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not suggesting changing existing redirects. Indeed, the article "Tanks in World War I" comes up first and is a good introduction. I was referring in general terms to a need to verify that searches for key terms do manage to come up with relevant articles. Google and Yahoo have totally failed in that area. I'm not sure how the exact article title is used by Wiki search engine.Rcbutcher (talk) 08:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay Tank Mark VIII will be the new article name, unless strong disagreement is presented. I suggest any less-than-strong disagreements be solved by the creation of redirect pages. Binksternet (talk) 16:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Moved. Now checking for orphaned links. Binksternet (talk) 06:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. Referencing and appropriate inline citation guidelines not met. With appropriate citations and references, this article would easily qualify as B class is not higher. --dashiellx (talk) 11:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)